Judge Rules Most Recent FDNY Exam is Discriminatory

[Reliance 29]

I wouldn't object to the test being more about firefighting because that would give people with experience and/or the motivation to study, an edge. However, the test still isn't discriminating as is.

The only thing that I don't get is what makes the Judge an expert on Firefighting. Does the Fire Department tell the Justice System how to run the court system.

[ny10570 745]

Read the judges decisions on the initial brief. He is not and does not claim to be an expert on firefighting. The facts are minorities performed worse than whites. The states that unless the test directly impacts job performance the results cannot be discriminatory. The city was unable to show where test score impacted performance. These rules go back to Jim Crow Laws where inconsequential requirements were added to voting requirements to prevent blacks from voting.

FFLieu, you're right, there is nothing in the questions them selves that is discriminatory. The real issue is socioeconomic impact on education and standardized testing. The disparity in results is magnified Manny times over when lines are drawn based on income.

[CLM92982 26]

Drop the FDNY quotas

New York Post

August 9, 2010

City Hall says it plans a speedy appeal of Brooklyn Federal Judge Nicholas Garaufis' latest attempt to rebuild the FDNY to his personal racial specifications.

38.5 percent of the nearly 22,000 applicants who took the 2007 tests were minorities -- as were 33 percent of the top 4,000 scorers.

Where is the disparate impact?

Drop the FDNY quotas

[Just a guy 493]

The bottom line is that the poor me mentality has to stop !! All school cirriculum around the state is the same, children in every classroom around the state take the same tests at the same time at the same age. So how is it that if a minority candidate gets a question wrong on the FDNY exam it's descriminitory but if a white candidate gets a question wrong it's because he just doesn't know the question ? These tests are fair, this is the way civil service has been done forever, thats it. The excuse of socio - economic conditions is just that - AN EXCUSE !!! If you want the job that bad, take the test like everyone else and you pass the test on your merit and on your merit alone, not on some sliding scale that allows you to bypass questions you may have got wrong.

[hudson144 150]

For more info about this go to merit matters.com and read all the facts that are presented that shows that the city of NY has certainly done its job to increase the rolls of minorities on the job.The FD jobs should not be given out like candy anywhere, If standards aren't lowered for lawyers,pilots,doctors etc why should the FD be the career that both judges and liberal lawyers are going after? More to follow.

[16fire5 693]

The Vulcan society previously argued that firefighting question or questions that tested ones knowledge of the fire service on the entrance exam were discriminatory since test takers from firefighting families would have an unfair advantage. Fast forward 30-40 years and the test is discriminatory since it's not job related. In my opinion the city must do a better job of proving the fact that today's firefighter needs basic reading comprehension skills.

M Ave. your on the money Disparate Impact however well intentioned is nonsense. I'm not a constitutional law expert but I don't believe it's constitutional. It was codified but not sure it by itself has passed a real challenge. I'm glad others besides myself took time to read the New Haven decision all three opinions are worth the read and it's obvious that Judge Ginsburg has plenty of preconcieved notions of the fire service.

[antiquefirelt 994]

I just don't get how they can hope to accomplish their goals of more minorities without discrimination. If they lower the aptitude required to ace the test, which is pretty much where you have to be to make the list, do they think that more whites won't be able to pass the easier test? Then how do they choose without discrimination? This country is out of hand with these types of issues. For one I see this as the one issue that makes me feel racist in any manner. I can't help but be angered by folks who argue that the tests need to be changed so they can pass them. I'd like to think these were rare individuals but instead, they make it a race issue. It really should cause other member of said minorities to be outraged that they're being "proven" to be less intelligent by their peers and the courts.

[Just a guy 493]

I just don't get how they can hope to accomplish their goals of more minorities without discrimination. If they lower the aptitude required to ace the test, which is pretty much where you have to be to make the list, do they think that more whites won't be able to pass the easier test? Then how do they choose without discrimination? This country is out of hand with these types of issues. For one I see this as the one issue that makes me feel racist in any manner. I can't help but be angered by folks who argue that the tests need to be changed so they can pass them. I'd like to think these were rare individuals but instead, they make it a race issue. It really should cause other member of said minorities to be outraged that they're being "proven" to be less intelligent by their peers and the courts.

Excellent Post !