Merger of Westchester police, emergency services put in doubt

[velcroMedic1987 330]

Well said. Why are police agencies always trying to encroach on the duties of the fire and EMS guys? Self preservation? If there is a serious concern about saving money, which there is, combine with other law enforcement entities such as Corrections, DA, Probation. They all deal with "bad guys". Kinda like one stop shopping. Could prove to be a model for other Counties to duplicate. Oh, I forgot, sandbox issues...

Probatoin and Correctoins were both put under one Commissoiner years ago under the Spano regime. The DA's Office is run by the DA and not under the control of Astorino.

Considering that DES was established only 10 years ago and can be put under the "Public Safety" umbrella without any harm to any fire, EMS or police departments in the County what is the harm in this proposal?

Sounds like the haz-mat team will have more strength because of more people and a quicker response time so I don't know what everyone's all fired up about.

[PEMO3 523]

so I don't know what everyone's all fired up about.

To answer you question let me use a metaphor. Everyone has heard the term "Those that can't do, teach, and those that can't teach... teach gym." Well here we have the equivelent of a bunch of gym teachers trying to design regents exams. Does that make it clear enough?

[firebuff860 54]

To answer you question let me use a metaphor. Everyone has heard the term "Those that can't do, teach, and those that can't teach... teach gym." Well here we have the equivelent of a bunch of gym teachers trying to design regents exams. Does that make it clear enough?

Although I am not an english major, I do not believe that qualifies as a metaphor. The bottom line is that in the end, if this "consolidation" goes through 2 of the 3 current dept's(PD, FD, EMS)are going to end up on the short end of the stick in regards to training $ and grant funding. If the county is dead set on moving forward with this, I would prefer to see a professional emergency management adminsitrator, preferably with a solid knowledge of all specialties take control, and have 3 deputy commisioners with singular expertise in their field. Then the new head of this dept can decide based on merit that involving the County PD in hazmat might make sense to get a quicker response. Or it might make sense to shelve it and have the county subsidize YFD's unit for county availability, or the squads. Either way, this topic will remain interesting until the county makes it's decision.

[Guest]

This reminds me of the HOSTILE TAKEOVER of NYC*EMS by FDNY, the only way that this "merger" will work is if they create 3 seperate Depts 1)FIRE 2)POLICE and 3)EMS, Fire run bu Fire personel,Police run by Police personel and EMS RUN by EMS personal, I have read all the posts and JJB makes a valid point (High Five Joe).

I am not anti anyone I AM PRO-EMS

[Goose 188]

This reminds me of the HOSTILE TAKEOVER of NYC*EMS by FDNY, the only way that this "merger" will work is if they create 3 seperate Depts 1)FIRE 2)POLICE and 3)EMS, Fire run bu Fire personel,Police run by Police personel and EMS RUN by EMS personal, I have read all the posts and JJB makes a valid point (High Five Joe).

I am not anti anyone I AM PRO-EMS

Guess we can thank Rudy for that lol...

One of my bigger concerns is how exactly they plan to merge the dispatching facilities...aren't they in two different locations on two different radio systems?

[irishfire2491 24]

I'm reading this before the Sun comes up, so bare with me.

WCPD (or DPS) is an awesome agency that has always struck me as proactive and aggressive when it comes to planning and coordination in Westchester County. I've participated in training exercises and worked at many incidents with the DPS and in plain english, they've got their s#it together. As a fire chief, I know I will catch crap for saying this, but I don't think any other organization around the county has a better grasp of the incident management system. During major incidents, they show up, size things up and establish not only a command presence, but implement an action plan in a timely manner. I think their expertise on hazard and disaster recognition and planning mixed with the response knowledge and capabilities of DES could result in an amazing organization poised to respond to major emergencies in Westchester County.

But, by eliminating some positions, doesn't this threaten the span of control in some areas? And what happens after some positions are eliminated, and they come to realize that perhaps they were beneficial? Will they bring them back, or out of pride will they keep them vacant and make some perform dual roles?

I have seen counties that have all services under one umbrella that work. I have also seen them fail or come up short. What concerns me is the vibe I get in this proposal - it feels more like a takeover then it does a merger. All references in the proposal seem one-sided from DPS on how they can absorb DES and make it run smoother and more efficiently. In many ways, I think that this has great potential, but something also tells me that we may see it deplete / ruin certain things that many people worked hard to accomplish.

As for consolidating communications, this isn't a bad concept. The bigger issue would be to have one central communications center that handles everything in every community, with the exception of the larger cities (if so desired). People don't realize how inefficient it is now to have 911 calls go to one place, then get transferred to another - which sometimes goes to the wrong place or doesn't happen. I personally feel that if we can consolidate DPS and 60 Control communications centers, that we should eventually assume the responsibility of answering cellular 911 as well. The TMC already transfers many police requests to WCPD, and fire/EMS requests come to 60 Control (majority of the time). When a call is in an unknown area or outside of Westchester, many times they transfer it to us to "figure out" and send to the proper agency (IE: FDNY, Rockland, Putnam, Nassau, Suffolk, etc.). With the CAD system we have, we can handle this almost seemlessly. If you add the knowledge of the DPS communications personnel, Westchester County could have one of the best communications centers in the country. (IMHO)

Time will tell, I just hope that every aspect is looked at beyond it's cost efficiency shock value.

(Now I will go hide because I am sure someone will jump down my throat for speaking my mind...)

Very well said John, The system with the 911 calls and transfering non stop is time very comsuming. If everyone was crossed trained the job could go smoother and calls wouldnt have to be transfered. I really dont see a big problem with the merge, if it ended up happening, I would accual look foward to it. Alot of good can come out of the change. Granted it will take some time to fix the bugs and glitches, but that goes with anytime something gets Changed. I really Dont know why EVERYONE is always so SCARED of CHANGE. Everything Changes everyday but yet we are still living and doing our jobs. As for the Special OPS Team Tech Rescue Hazmat Team, So what if the PD has a part in it, it becomes and extra Person to help out, Extra MIND on Scene, (Granted I applied to the County HAZMAT Team and was told they are To Full to accept New Application, How are you to Full to Accpet someone that has HAZMAT Tech/IC and works for the County Gov't is beyond me, so MY feelings is Let the PD Run the Teams. Cause you are able to get the Hazmat Truck on Scene Faster when you can get a Police Officer who is on Duty to respond to the garage when he is only 1-2 mins away compaired to someone who is 15-20 mins away trying to respond with his BLUE Light Just to get the Truck and hoping VOLUNTEERS are going to show up at 5am when everyones is going to work!) If everyone could stop be Stuborn on WHO can Pound their chest the hardest and call them self KING KONG! I think things would run smooth and the JOB will get done no matter who was doing it!!!

[Bnechis 3,961]

(Granted I applied to the County HAZMAT Team and was told they are To Full to accept New Application, How are you to Full to Accpet someone that has HAZMAT Tech/IC and works for the County Gov't is beyond me,

Are you kidding?

I do not know how many "active" members they have, but in years past it was common for a 1 or 2 member response during the day, because thats what was available.

[Goose 188]

I'm reading this before the Sun comes up, so bare with me.

WCPD (or DPS) is an awesome agency that has always struck me as proactive and aggressive when it comes to planning and coordination in Westchester County. I've participated in training exercises and worked at many incidents with the DPS and in plain english, they've got their s#it together. As a fire chief, I know I will catch crap for saying this, but I don't think any other organization around the county has a better grasp of the incident management system. During major incidents, they show up, size things up and establish not only a command presence, but implement an action plan in a timely manner. I think their expertise on hazard and disaster recognition and planning mixed with the response knowledge and capabilities of DES could result in an amazing organization poised to respond to major emergencies in Westchester County.

But, by eliminating some positions, doesn't this threaten the span of control in some areas? And what happens after some positions are eliminated, and they come to realize that perhaps they were beneficial? Will they bring them back, or out of pride will they keep them vacant and make some perform dual roles?

I have seen counties that have all services under one umbrella that work. I have also seen them fail or come up short. What concerns me is the vibe I get in this proposal - it feels more like a takeover then it does a merger. All references in the proposal seem one-sided from DPS on how they can absorb DES and make it run smoother and more efficiently. In many ways, I think that this has great potential, but something also tells me that we may see it deplete / ruin certain things that many people worked hard to accomplish.

As for consolidating communications, this isn't a bad concept. The bigger issue would be to have one central communications center that handles everything in every community, with the exception of the larger cities (if so desired). People don't realize how inefficient it is now to have 911 calls go to one place, then get transferred to another - which sometimes goes to the wrong place or doesn't happen. I personally feel that if we can consolidate DPS and 60 Control communications centers, that we should eventually assume the responsibility of answering cellular 911 as well. The TMC already transfers many police requests to WCPD, and fire/EMS requests come to 60 Control (majority of the time). When a call is in an unknown area or outside of Westchester, many times they transfer it to us to "figure out" and send to the proper agency (IE: FDNY, Rockland, Putnam, Nassau, Suffolk, etc.). With the CAD system we have, we can handle this almost seemlessly. If you add the knowledge of the DPS communications personnel, Westchester County could have one of the best communications centers in the country. (IMHO)

Time will tell, I just hope that every aspect is looked at beyond it's cost efficiency shock value.

(Now I will go hide because I am sure someone will jump down my throat for speaking my mind...)

Hopefully centralized dispatch is what the end result is. Can't tell you how helpful it is to have a MDT screen full of information from a call taker on the way to a job, thats one thing NYC got right.

[irishfire2491 24]

Are you kidding?

I do not know how many "active" members they have, but in years past it was common for a 1 or 2 member response during the day, because thats what was available.

Saddly No I am not kidding, That came from the one who is in charge of The Hazmat Team, It is pretty Sad if you ask me!

[Monty 35]

The Westchester County Association of Fire Chiefs are having a meeting in Ossining Wednesday September 15th to discuss the elimination of DES. Details posted here.

The WCAFC web site on their news page has several details about the merger. It has the pdf of the proposal, and a letter the organization sent to Mr. Astorino.

[patriotic 1]

For updated information and to review reference documents regrading the Proposed Consolidation of Westchester County Department of Emergency Services (DES) and Department of Public Safety(DPS)go to:

http://www.wcfirechiefs.org/news.htm

[x635 4,066]

Merger of Westchester police, emergency services put in doubt

By Gerald McKinstry • gmckinst@lohud.com • October 13, 2010

A merger of Westchester County's police and emergency services may be in jeopardy, as lawmakers aren't ready to pull any triggers.

http://www.lohud.com/article/20101013/NEWS02/10130335/Merger-of-Westchester-police-emergency-services-put-in-doubt

[Monty 35]

Not too well publicized but November 8th, 19:30 the County Board of Legislators is holding a public hearing on the consolidation plans.

http://meetings.westchesterlegislators.com/Citizens/Detail_LegiFile.aspx?Frame=&ID=3365&CssClass=

A Resolution to set a Public Hearing on "A LOCAL LAW amending the Laws of Westchester County to abolish the Department of Emergency Services as a separate division and transfer its functions, powers and duties to the Department of Public Safety." [Public Hearing set for November 8, 2010 at 7:30 p.m.; Local Law Intro 23-2010]

[helicopper 1,050]

But, will funding be siphoned from the DES budget to operate any of the WCPD specialized resources? The helicopter, you know more then me, helps the Fire service in numerous situations, and is an excellent resource. And it was my understanding that DES purchased the bambi bucket....I have the photos to prove it. It was also justified with the intent that it would be shared with DES, which it is.

There are a lot of questions about this shrouded in mystery, and something major is going to happen soon....and any concerns will not be addressed. It's a "do what I want or get out" situation. And that's what happened. We should know what is going on, government should be transparent, and the responders in Westchester are going to be affected and have no say in a plan concoted for political reasons, not for true improvement in emergency response.

I'm not privvy to the long-term plan so I can't comment on what may happen in the future and I'm not going to speculate. However I can correct inaccurate information. I'm not sure what you have pictures of or what you think they prove but I can say with absolute certainty that DES did not fund anything for the helicopter including the bambi-buckets.

The justification for allocating the entire year's UASI grant to the helicopter purchase was that the new helicopter would be able to provide assistance to any police, fire, EMS or other first response entity in Westchester County and it does that.

Again, wayyyy off topic.

[x635 4,066]

Isn't that system what has created massive problems in NYC? Seperating the calltakers from dispatchers. Adding addional people between the caller and the responder increases the chance of errors. We looked at the potential savings and found that it would cost millions to merge communications, because 1) the physical facility does not exist & 2) The county has just started to pay off the new DPS communication facility.

If properly implemented, the current model nationwide is a calltaker/dispatcher system. A Dispatcher in a large agency should focus on the radio and other tasks. Calltakers can be training to take calls, enter them into the CAD, and route them to the proper dispatcher. They would also have time to do EMD. And, most CAD's have a instant messaging feature so the dispatcher can ask calltaker questions and vice versa, and dispatchers can also see updates to the call.

Granted, this doesn't work for all agencies, but there's only so much a Dispatcher can multitask. And to do EMD too? Sometime with only 4 dispatchers?

60 Control will need to be upgraded and expanded. But where? That's been put off for years and is overdue. The DPS Dispatch room isn't what it should be. But DPS is also short on space. Sharing a facility would benefit both agencies, and maintaining the current 60 Control and WCPD Dispatch centers as backups would be a smart choice. And the building should be a secured facility all around.

And, these Dispatchers go far and beyond other dispatchers. They have to remember different rules for what, 57 Fire and 38 EMS agencies? They, along with WCPD dispatchers, need a raise.

This is the type of mergers and improvements that should be taking place. The first reponder to any incident are the calltakers and dispatchers. Not the politicians.

Westchester County bought a building in an Elmsford Executive Park, so 60 Control and other DES functions could expand there. What is it now? A county warehouse having nothing to do with DES. When the new Special Operations garages, which they've already outgrown. The promise then was that they'd make the current apparatus bays into a large auditorium and more office space? Is that even happening? A large multi-function "taxpayer" structure was supposed to be built- where is that?

There are a few people at DES that are responsible for the massive upgrades of systems in the past few years. They are very proactive, knowledgable, and hard working members of DES.

The County Executive(s) makes all these promises, but never follow through in a proper manner, and neither does the legislature. It's always a fight, and that's the reason why DES is years behind where it should be.

And right now, we know nothing about what the County Executive's master plan is. All I've heard is that he doesn't want any input from the Fire and EMS agencies. And they are only reactionary to "problems" that they think they know about, not procative on the issues that need to be corrected. I know it's alll just rumors right now, but there will be massive changes, and, in my OPINION, are not going to be good for DES. And that's because the politicians do whatever the heck they want, and play by their own rules.

Again, put the pieces together. Tony's not going to be the first person to go at DES. I have tremendous respect for WCPD, but they are a busy Law Enforcement agency. Their leaders were promoted because of their knowledge and ability to lead in Law Enforcement. And the same goes with Fire and EMS. How can someone with a Law Enforcement background lead a Fire/EMS agency. And vice versa....how could a fire service leader properly run a law enforcement agency. Where WCPD is a single agency, DES is made up of a lot of different pieces dealing with a lot of agencies. Again, how are the two budgets going to be merged?

I think that there are benefits to merging certain parts of the agencies, but not as drastically as proposed.

And the Board Of Legislatures theoratically represents the citizens of Westchester. They voted it down. So he admitted he is going to find a way to get around that. Where is the "check and balance"? It is Astorino's way or the highway.

(Note: I can't comment on DPS as I am not in touch with their operations besides communications.

[x635 4,066]

Public Safety and Emergency Services are departments where future

partnership is essential. The opportunities for both departments to

share training, technology, equipment, personnel and real estate are

substantial. More important, greater consolidation and coordination

will improve operational efficiencies and response. This in fact was

one of the key lessons that came out of 9/11.

Last year, my proposal to bring the two departments together stalled

in the Board of Legislators.

This partnership is too important to ignore, so I will continue to find

savings and efficiencies by working administratively to streamline the

two departments.

County Exec's State Of Westchester Speech 2011

[ytpastchief99-00 6]

"Last year, my proposal to bring the two departments together stalled

in the Board of Legislators."

IT wasn’t the County Board that stalled consolidation. It was the Fire Departments in Westchester that told Astorino NO this isn’t going to work and it isn’t going to save any money. It is now time again to have our voices heard. If Mr. Astorino doesn’t hear it this time then he will hear in the next election. The Fire Dept is Westchester also pointed out many ways to save taxpayers money but Astorino rejected these coast saving measures.