Port Authority to ground helicopter unit

[x635 4,066]

I didn't even know that the Port Authority had an Aviation division.

Port Authority to ground helicopter unit

July 16, 2010

TETERBORO, N.J. (AP) — The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey is eliminating its helicopter fleet and selling the two choppers.

http://www.lohud.com/article/20100716/NEWS05/7160362/Port-Authority-to-ground-helicopter-unit

[khas143 13]

I didn't even know that the Port Authority had an Aviation division.

http://www.lohud.com/article/20100716/NEWS05/7160362/Port-Authority-to-ground-helicopter-unit

Well Done Port Authority! Talk about a waste of money.... every jurisdiction that the PA NY/NJ covers has/had their own aviation unit. This is a great way to reduce the redundant services that plague our area! I just hope this elimination of duplicative services continues.

[JScott128 41]

PAPD Aviation was known as Port 1 & Port 2 on the radio. I work 5 minutes from Teterboro and rarely did I hear them get involved in Bergen County, although they did help me out with a pursuit once that was headed to the George Washington Bridge. Scott

[JScott128 41]

I believe this was the civilian pilots' ride.

[khas143 13]

I believe this was the civilian pilots' ride.

That is can of worms. A civilian pilot with a PAPD take home car with lights and sirens. I don't even know where to begin. A non-sworn civilian with lights and sirens and a take-home ride... WOW! Additional savings that were not calculated into the tax-savings.

Edited July 17, 2010 by khas143

[ny10570 745]

What's wrong with a civilian having that vehicle? He's not a sworn officer, that's all. He's still an emergency responder with the PAPD and I'm assuming he has the appropriate training. How is this any different than the paramedics who work for Greenburgh PD?

[khas143 13]

What's wrong with a civilian having that vehicle? He's not a sworn officer, that's all. He's still an emergency responder with the PAPD and I'm assuming he has the appropriate training. How is this any different than the paramedics who work for Greenburgh PD?

Two part answer.... one... Greenburgh PD operates a NYS DOH certified service. So for their part they are responding as ambulance / paramedic first response service. It dosen't matter who is driving the vehicle with the exception of if a cop is driving the vehicle, they can enforce V&T. There is also the issue that if it is a police vehicle as opposed to an ambulance or fire vehicle, V&T laws have different requirements regarding emergency response.

As for the second part, I guess it is kind of a moot point because the "civilian" pilot will no longer be employed by the PAPD. However, if that person had not been trained in EVOC and certified, that opens up a liability "grand canyon". Also SOP's would need to be in place to address these issues.

Anyway... I appologize for deviating from the subject of this post.

[Tapout 42]

Hey, K-K-Khas... I don't think you deviated from the point of the story. I actually think you hit the nail on the proverbial redundant and ridiculously cost-ineffective head.

Now, for those pilots suddenly looking for jobs... I know of a certain WCPD Aviation Unit looking for good pilots and TFO's (and are both willing and able to train the latter).

[Brendan 7]

Well Done Port Authority! Talk about a waste of money.... every jurisdiction that the PA NY/NJ covers has/had their own aviation unit. This is a great way to reduce the redundant services that plague our area! I just hope this elimination of duplicative services continues.

Hi Khan, You seem way too excited about this. Some people might say the same if they cut your police job in Bedford Hills. I am all for reduction in wasteful spending. The Port Authority has a 6.3 BILLION $ budget. Lets get rid of some pencil pushers. You have a lot to learn. Stay safe !

[helicopper 1,050]

I didn't even know that the Port Authority had an Aviation division.

PAPD Aviation was known as Port 1 & Port 2 on the radio. I work 5 minutes from Teterboro and rarely did I hear them get involved in Bergen County, although they did help me out with a pursuit once that was headed to the George Washington Bridge. Scott

Hence the problem. According to well placed sources in the aviation community, PAPD's Aviation Unit brought on their own obsolescence. They didn't routinely support ground units and were operating one of the most expensive platforms in the industry (twin engine Sikorsky S-76 models at a cost of about 12-15 million EACH and over $1000 per hour to operate) to NOT do a job that is done well by aircraft at a fraction of the cost (anywhere from 1-3 million per aircraft and 2-3 hundred dollars per hour to operate).

Well Done Port Authority! Talk about a waste of money.... every jurisdiction that the PA NY/NJ covers has/had their own aviation unit. This is a great way to reduce the redundant services that plague our area! I just hope this elimination of duplicative services continues.

Regrettably the Newark PD grounded it's aviation unit on May 28th due to the city's fiscal woes and now the only aviation asset in northern New Jersey is the State Police who also have medevac and other responsibilities. Hopefully the State will redeploy some of it's assets to increase availability here in the metro area but they have the whole state to cover.

Another problem is that because of the associated costs, aviation often winds up with a big fat bulls-eye on it. The fact is that aviation is an extremely cost-effective law enforcement resource when used properly! From what I've been told, the PAPD wasn't cost-effective or used properly.

Helicopter operations are costly. A cost benefit analysis would be agency specific and would depend on factors such as the defined mission(s), the type of helicopter operated, the total number of hours flown, and the expected benefit of those operations. According to Whitehead, “Is it worth it? is not a question answerable by research. The “worth” depends on the value placed on the results it achieves.

Helicopters provide a distinct tactical advantage to police operations. A police helicopter can provide a more prompt response, enhance officer and public safety, increase apprehension rates, locate missing people (suspects, juveniles, Alzheimer patients), save police officer time, and patrol large areas. These benefits, however, are extremely difficult to quantify in dollars.

As stated earlier, their worth is in the value placed in the results. In a 19 day span (Dec. 19, 2007 – Jan. 7, 2008), RotorNews, the daily e-newsletter of the Helicopter Association International (HAI), contained stories of 8 lost people found and another 8 people rescued, 10 of them juveniles, all by police helicopters (attachments B-H).

The rapid response, aerial perspective, enhanced apprehension rates, police presence, special mission capabilities, and enhanced public and officer safety not withstanding, these 16 lives saved validate the worth of helicopters in law enforcement.

From a report on the cost effectiveness of police aviation - D. B. Schwarzbach (excerpt reprinted with permission of the author)

Hey, K-K-Khas... I don't think you deviated from the point of the story. I actually think you hit the nail on the proverbial redundant and ridiculously cost-ineffective head.

Now, for those pilots suddenly looking for jobs... I know of a certain WCPD Aviation Unit looking for good pilots and TFO's (and are both willing and able to train the latter).

Thank you, we'll pass.

Hi Khan, You seem way too excited about this. Some people might say the same if they cut your police job in Bedford Hills. I am all for reduction in wasteful spending. The Port Authority has a 6.3 BILLION $ budget. Lets get rid of some pencil pushers. You have a lot to learn. Stay safe !

If the PA really wants a police aviation unit, it can start a police aviation unit and operate as one without the issues they had previously and at a fraction of the cost. By contrast, the Baton Rouge Lousiana PD just started an aviation unit seven months ago at about 1/4 the cost of the PAPD operation and they fly more and do more police work. On another note, do you know how many police officers 4 million dollars a year can get you?

Don't make this peronal either. Khas knows a bit about police work and law enforcement aviation so he's as entitled to his opinion as you are.

[ffdude13 5]

That is can of worms. A civilian pilot with a PAPD take home car with lights and sirens. I don't even know where to begin. A non-sworn civilian with lights and sirens and a take-home ride... WOW! Additional savings that were not calculated into the tax-savings.

Although I may agree with your prior statement, this one I believe is a little not thought through. For one, I am sure that a professional and well known organization such as the PAPD properly trained the civilian or had the proper paperwork/insurance/"whatever you need" in order to have their bases covered etc, with this person operating the vehicle.

With that said, it is a simple matter of why the civilian would need it. At least to me, the most obvious reason would be that whoever the pilots of the PAPD are (civilian or not) if the chopper is not flying 24/7 365 (which seems unlikely with only 2-3 pilots i believe according to the lo hud article) should an emergency arise where the aviation unit needs to respond during off hours, the standby pilot would need to get their in a hurry hence the lights/sirens.

Being the PAPD, I am just giving them the benefit of the doubt to them that this person was trained etc, and that the person using the vehicle would have it for the purpose of responding to the chopper or something of the like, and not just to be "part of the club. The aviation unit was part of the police, not ZIPPO helicopter tours. I see no problem with the pilot needing to get to the helicopter in a hurry in order to perform police/emergency service flights.

[bad box 371]

Elimination of PAPD 'aviation division' is a good first step toward saving taxpayers money that is being wasted on services that PAPD has been duplicating. The next obvious waste is the PAPD ESU. They 'buff' extrication's outside their jurisdiction on city highways. The municipal agencies that are charged with the responsibility of providing emergency rescue services do not need such interference. I'll bet they don't get many 'pin jobs' on airport property, and for the bridges and tunnels there are plenty of municipal rescue units within minutes of these locations. PAPD is a very expensive part of the port authority budget. The PAPD serves a valid function performing security at P.A. locations. If they stick to crime prevention, they can eliminate a lot of Wa$te ...

[JScott128 41]

Guys- I posted the vehicle and said that I "believe" it was the pilot's vehicle, but I don't know that for a fact and I don't know in what capacity it was used. It could have been used just around the airport when the pilots were at Teterboro, or maybe it was a take home, I have no idea.

Chris- you said that NJSP is the only aviation asset in northern NJ.... Not true, Bergen County has a small single engine plane which has yet to prove itself. I know if I need aviation, NJSP or NYPD is getting called 1st before "Bergen-1". But to Bergen County's credit, they do advise all patrol units in the County of their patrol schedule and how to contact them. Hopefully Bergen's attempt at airborne law enforcement is successful, but I hope this is just the first step to getting a helicopter, which would be more practical. And thanks for the heads up about Newark, didn't know they were grounded.

One last point about PAPD not supporting ground units. A month or 2 ago I was talking to 2 PAPD cops from the George Washington Bridge during a midnight shift. Somehow we got on the topic of PAPD's helicopters, they didn't even know there own PD had helicopters and had no idea they were based minutes away from the bridge.

Scott

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Absolutely no disrespect to our PAPD brothers and sisters, and the 37 members they lost on 9/11.

Does anyone know if the PAPD Airborne Unit got up in the sky on 9/11?

I'm also wondering why, if they've had an Airborne Unit since ''51" as the emblem states, why didn't they develop a rooftop evacuation plan for the WTC in the time of it's existance? Not looking for an arguement, just if anyone knows anything.....

I've heard from brothers, regarding the '93 attack of the WTC, a certain fire chief instructed his members to walk the stairwells, after the NYPD Air Unit had offered to shuttle members to the roof. Never heard the PAPD Airborne Unit mentioned, ever, in any of those discussions.

Since it's the "fancy" chopper, the Sykorski (sp?), my guess is it was used a lot for transports of VIP's from the PA around to their different properties; JFK,LGA, NWK, etc. It looks like the style of private choppers you see doing the shuttle work around the greater NY area.

[ny10570 745]

Wasn't it was determined helicopter access was unsafe due to roof structures after '93?

[LTNRFD 266]

Since it's the "fancy" chopper, the Sykorski (sp?), my guess is it was used a lot for transports of VIP's from the PA around to their different properties; JFK,LGA, NWK, etc. It looks like the style of private choppers you see doing the shuttle work around the greater NY area.

I was thinking the same thing. The PAPD helicopter looks the same (minus the stripping & lettering) as the corporate helicopters that fly over my house 10 times a day.

[helicopper 1,050]

A few follow-up comments...

You're absolutely right about Bergen County. I completely forgot about them and their light sport airplane. Sorry about that. It is limited in its capabilities but as you said it may open the door to other platforms in the future.

As for the Port Authority on 9/11, they were a corporate flight department back then and did not "respond".

Their aircraft are exactly the same (Sikorsky S-76) as the corporate and charter helicopters you see around our area.

New York City (not the Port Authority) has been preparing for high rise emergencies since the mid 1980's and they executed that plan during the response to the 1993 WTC bombing. On 9/11 however there was only a short window when rooftop ops would have been feasible at tower 1 but there were no victims there to extract. Tower 2 was out of play due to the smoke from tower 1.

[ctt447 5]

First and formost, a good part of this thread has been based on assumptions and personal thoughts...very little facts.

The elimination of the Port Authority Airborne Services Unit cost people jobs. Let's remember that when you are all saying kudos and good work to the Port Authority. What none of you seem to realize is that all of the jobs lost; pilots, maintenance staff/ground crew, and supervisor were civilian positions.

The helicopters did not support local or county law enforcement activities routinely, that statement is correct. But the reason why is something none of you asked. It wasn't because they didn't want to help you, but because of the politics within the Port Authority. If a local municipality needed the PAPD helicopter, it had to be approved by two chiefs, deupty supt. and the supt in some cases. However, whenever it WAS ASKED to assist, they would be on station immediatly and stay as long as you needed them.

Do you know that the leaders at the Port Authority eliminated any flights after 6pm over three years ago,essentialy making it a daytime service only? Do you know that due to PAPD Union contract that anytime the helicopter went up in the air, a PAPD police officer had to be on? So when there are only 5 poice officers assigned to Teterboro airport, if they were tied up on something and a request came in for the helicopter, it could not go up until an officer responded to the helicopter.

While the helicopters might seem lavish to some, they posess some of the most state of the art technology and capabilities available on any air platform in the region. They were specifically designed to support the entire Port District and not just one or two facilities.

If a police officer at the GWB did not know of their existence then obviously they were sleeping during their time in academy. The helicopter supported numerous incidents and daily events at PA facilities.

Regarding the civilian vehicle, this is one of only two vechicles assigned to the helicopter unit...one at Teterboro and one at Wall Street Heliport. Both are used for business purposes to transport parts, employees, or set up on the spot LZ's. They are not emergency response vehicles as has been eluded too. And by the way, all PA civilian employees who use lights/sirens as part of their job responsibilities go through the proper training.

Finally, regarding PAPD ESU, anyone who thinks they are jumping calls or out of their jurisdictions your chief or officer in charge should take it up with them on scene. It's funny how many times you hear this mentioned but yet no one can give specific examples. If they are so poorly regarded then how come the State of NJ recognized the PAPD ESU as the only law enforcement agency to participate in the UASI USAR Task Force as a full member? Guess what...the 9 largest departments in Northern NJ had to vote on the inclusion of PAPD ESU and no one said no.

PAPD ESU has been around for almost 30 years, they are not something new. However, you see an awful lot of towns and counties starting "ESU's" because they recieved some grant funding but don't have the training or personnel to maintain it. I don't see anyone complaining about that though.

Rembemer, the Port Authority Police have bi-state police powers and are responsbile for patrol and response for a 25 mile radius from the State of Liberty.

[efdcapt115 1,511]

First and formost, a good part of this thread has been based on assumptions and personal thoughts...very little facts.

The elimination of the Port Authority Airborne Services Unit cost people jobs. Let's remember that when you are all saying kudos and good work to the Port Authority. What none of you seem to realize is that all of the jobs lost; pilots, maintenance staff/ground crew, and supervisor were civilian positions.

The helicopters did not support local or county law enforcement activities routinely, that statement is correct. But the reason why is something none of you asked. It wasn't because they didn't want to help you, but because of the politics within the Port Authority. If a local municipality needed the PAPD helicopter, it had to be approved by two chiefs, deupty supt. and the supt in some cases. However, whenever it WAS ASKED to assist, they would be on station immediatly and stay as long as you needed them.

Do you know that the leaders at the Port Authority eliminated any flights after 6pm over three years ago,essentialy making it a daytime service only? Do you know that due to PAPD Union contract that anytime the helicopter went up in the air, a PAPD police officer had to be on? So when there are only 5 poice officers assigned to Teterboro airport, if they were tied up on something and a request came in for the helicopter, it could not go up until an officer responded to the helicopter.

While the helicopters might seem lavish to some, they posess some of the most state of the art technology and capabilities available on any air platform in the region. They were specifically designed to support the entire Port District and not just one or two facilities.

If a police officer at the GWB did not know of their existence then obviously they were sleeping during their time in academy. The helicopter supported numerous incidents and daily events at PA facilities.

Regarding the civilian vehicle, this is one of only two vechicles assigned to the helicopter unit...one at Teterboro and one at Wall Street Heliport. Both are used for business purposes to transport parts, employees, or set up on the spot LZ's. They are not emergency response vehicles as has been eluded too. And by the way, all PA civilian employees who use lights/sirens as part of their job responsibilities go through the proper training.

Finally, regarding PAPD ESU, anyone who thinks they are jumping calls or out of their jurisdictions your chief or officer in charge should take it up with them on scene. It's funny how many times you hear this mentioned but yet no one can give specific examples. If they are so poorly regarded then how come the State of NJ recognized the PAPD ESU as the only law enforcement agency to participate in the UASI USAR Task Force as a full member? Guess what...the 9 largest departments in Northern NJ had to vote on the inclusion of PAPD ESU and no one said no.

PAPD ESU has been around for almost 30 years, they are not something new. However, you see an awful lot of towns and counties starting "ESU's" because they recieved some grant funding but don't have the training or personnel to maintain it. I don't see anyone complaining about that though.

Rembemer, the Port Authority Police have bi-state police powers and are responsbile for patrol and response for a 25 mile radius from the State of Liberty.

Nice post, if all the info you gave is "factual" as you've claimed, then you've added quite a bit of info about PAPD Airborne and ESU. Problem I have with it (even though I'm giving you a rep point anyway), is that nobody here was expressing support for anybody losing their jobs. If you follow this forum, then you know what cops and firefighters have been faced with regarding layoffs in Westchester County.(edit) I think I can speak for most members in saying we not in favor of people being layed off.(/edit)

You alluded to the difficulty in getting the proper authorization for PAPD Airborne support. Sounds like a ridiculous system to need up to four bosses to sign off on a flight. That's the PAPD hurting it's own unit, not anybody else.

A "contractual" agreement that required at least one PAPD officer to be on board for a flight? Bro, it's a POLICE chopper. What are non-police personel even doing in the cockpit? PAPD Airborne sounds like more of a service that didn't exist for anything or anyone outside of the PA, the more you describe it. And a daytime service only at that?

The comment I saw about PAPD ESU jumping calls came from a retired FDNY member. If he saw it happening in his career and called them on it in this thread, as far as I'm concerned that is FACT, and all I need to know that it does happen.

Sounds to me after your post, that the PAPD needs to get it's act together. First reason and this should be reason enough; PAPD protect the major airports in NY/NJ and as you claim a 25 mile ring around the Statue of Liberty. All of these assets and they are eliminating their airborne unit?

Maybe because they've been doing it wrong for so many years, and shuttling PA personel around like they were a bunch of Wall Street executives, instead of providing an emergency service, which would be the priority reason for a PD to own a chopper in the first place.

If they would have developed their air program to provide that local support, easier and more consistantly, they would have proved their worth to the emergency services community, and they probably wouldn't be on the chopping block, like a too expensive shuttle system for employees.

Think about it. We had USAir into the Hudson, we've had jumpers off the bridges, etc. We see the NYPD choppers dropping SCUBA divers into the water in a matter of minutes. We see the Westchester unit assisting with searches all over the county.

The PA chopper could have been utilized as a regular emergency air service for the whole area; yet from the chopper choice on down, it appears that is not what the PA powers to be intended.

Just my opinion.

Edited July 19, 2010 by efdcapt115

[Cos Cob 215 7]

A few questions:

Do taxpayers pay for any of it or is it port fees and tolls?

Are they not required to stop at an accident if driving by in a marked vehicle in NY or NJ? I know in CT the MTA cops sometimes arrive at I-95 calls and hold the scene until CSP arrives.

Any PAPD guys on here?

[helicopper 1,050]

First and formost, a good part of this thread has been based on assumptions and personal thoughts...very little facts.

The elimination of the Port Authority Airborne Services Unit cost people jobs. Let's remember that when you are all saying kudos and good work to the Port Authority. What none of you seem to realize is that all of the jobs lost; pilots, maintenance staff/ground crew, and supervisor were civilian positions.

The helicopters did not support local or county law enforcement activities routinely, that statement is correct. But the reason why is something none of you asked. It wasn't because they didn't want to help you, but because of the politics within the Port Authority. If a local municipality needed the PAPD helicopter, it had to be approved by two chiefs, deupty supt. and the supt in some cases. However, whenever it WAS ASKED to assist, they would be on station immediatly and stay as long as you needed them.

Do you know that the leaders at the Port Authority eliminated any flights after 6pm over three years ago,essentialy making it a daytime service only? Do you know that due to PAPD Union contract that anytime the helicopter went up in the air, a PAPD police officer had to be on? So when there are only 5 poice officers assigned to Teterboro airport, if they were tied up on something and a request came in for the helicopter, it could not go up until an officer responded to the helicopter.

While the helicopters might seem lavish to some, they posess some of the most state of the art technology and capabilities available on any air platform in the region. They were specifically designed to support the entire Port District and not just one or two facilities.

If a police officer at the GWB did not know of their existence then obviously they were sleeping during their time in academy. The helicopter supported numerous incidents and daily events at PA facilities.

Regarding the civilian vehicle, this is one of only two vechicles assigned to the helicopter unit...one at Teterboro and one at Wall Street Heliport. Both are used for business purposes to transport parts, employees, or set up on the spot LZ's. They are not emergency response vehicles as has been eluded too. And by the way, all PA civilian employees who use lights/sirens as part of their job responsibilities go through the proper training.

Finally, regarding PAPD ESU, anyone who thinks they are jumping calls or out of their jurisdictions your chief or officer in charge should take it up with them on scene. It's funny how many times you hear this mentioned but yet no one can give specific examples. If they are so poorly regarded then how come the State of NJ recognized the PAPD ESU as the only law enforcement agency to participate in the UASI USAR Task Force as a full member? Guess what...the 9 largest departments in Northern NJ had to vote on the inclusion of PAPD ESU and no one said no.

PAPD ESU has been around for almost 30 years, they are not something new. However, you see an awful lot of towns and counties starting "ESU's" because they recieved some grant funding but don't have the training or personnel to maintain it. I don't see anyone complaining about that though.

Rembemer, the Port Authority Police have bi-state police powers and are responsbile for patrol and response for a 25 mile radius from the State of Liberty.

I was very careful to base my comments on the information I received from people in the know and personal knowledge and I did not make assumptions. You clearly have an inside track as well so let me ask you, which of my observations is incorrect?

Wasn't the PAPD Aviation Unit grossly under-utilized? If the reason for that was administrative red tape that's a shame but it doesn't change the fact that the PA wasn't using it's assets and cut its losses.

The lost of a handful of jobs is tragic but they are all civilian jobs not police officers and they received a handsome severance package from the PA (six months pay to be exact). Odds are that they'll all be able to get jobs elsewhere in the region too.

The Police Officers assigned to the helicopters when it did fly were performing the function of a tactical flight officer (TFO) and the helicopter shouldn't have been flying around without them; a civilian shouldn't be doing police work so the PA got that part right. Without a TFO, all the state of the art equipment to which you refer is useless. Now, did the PA provide those officers with any training or did they just take whomever was available? Again, wasting the resources. Another failure of the Port Authority to make the unit legitimate and worthwhile.

I chatted personally with a PAPD cop at Newark just Saturday night and he laughed about the unit being abolished saying "it was about time" and that they didn't do anything to support them. Having the jurisdiction and authority to perform police work 25 miles around the Statue of Liberty that includes all of NYC and some of the most crime ridden areas of north Jersey but never encountering ANYTHING in eight months is a colossal waste. Not having the support of their own cops highlights this point.

Possessing all the state of the art technology would be relevant if it was used. The day flight 1549 landed in the Hudson, the hoist on the rescue capable S-76 was in a crate in the hangar - very helpful indeed. The day the small plane crashed into the Hudson River in Yonkers (well within the 25 miles from the Statue of Liberty) it was an NYPD helicopter and a Coast Guard helicopter that rescued the vicitms. Claiming to have these incredible resources but not making them available is just smoke and mirrors and a failure of the PA administration. And while the MX-20 camera mounted aboard the helicopter is a great one, what do they have to show for it? According to reports, absolutely nothing.

Give the Port Authority a couple of well equipped Bell 407's or A-stars, put well trained police aviators in them and let them do their jobs and we'd have an entirely different situation. It would not be a 3.7 million dollar per year corporate flying club; it would be a cutting edge law enforcement aviation unit at a fraction of the cost.

[16fire5 693]

New York City (not the Port Authority) has been preparing for high rise emergencies since the mid 1980's and they executed that plan during the response to the 1993 WTC bombing.

Following the 1993 bombing the procedure for inserting FDNY Ladder Companies onto the roof of a high rise office building was developed. Drills are still conducted but an actual insertion has never been done.

[helicopper 1,050]

Following the 1993 bombing the procedure for inserting FDNY Ladder Companies onto the roof of a high rise office building was developed. Drills are still conducted but an actual insertion has never been done.

NYPD Aviation did rappel ESU to the roof to clear obstructions during the 1993 bombing but they've never done it since.

[ctt447 5]

Just to be clear, I am 100 percent in agreement with the replies to my post. I didn't do a good job on pulling my thoughts together in a conclusion, but the bottom line is it was under utilized and buried in politics.

As far as the TFO - PO Assigned for each flight....I agree it's necesarry, but the model was broken since there wasn't always a PO assigned or available to the helicopter. Just trying to illustrate one of the problems that added to the capability.

And I just want to be very clear on one point...regardless on the end result of the helicopter being shut down, since it was placed under the control of the police department it has never been used as a corporate taxi.

I was just trying to clear up some misinformation on here and add some facts that led to the units demise.

[bad box 371]

More PAPD waste:

PAPD Minnow I and II