Is this a good idea....I don't think so

[Guest]

***I am not creating this post to opena can of worms!! I just want to see how everyone feels about this issue.***

Ok - a friend of mine, who is not involved in the fire service, came up to me today and told me about his night last nigh, which is not an unusual occurance on a Monday. He was at a bar last night (I am not going to say which bar) and when he walked in, there was a decent crowd of people. He said he saw a bunch of people in the back of the bar, including two firefighters in FULL UNIFORM. (Again, I won't say which department.) He said that these guys were..."$#@^-faced." Now, i'm not the type of person to badmouth people who go out and drink. Hell, if i'm invited to go to a bar with someone, I'll be the first one in their car! But, what I disagree with is going to a bar in uniform, and then getting hammered. I just don't think it looks good, and it doens't help our name, especially the volunteers. From what my friend says, one of these guys was near-stripping, dancing on tables, making a total a** of himself. He also said that one of the plainclothed firefighterst that was there with them almost seemed embarrased to be seen with him. Is taht really the side of the fire service that we want people to see? What about the little kids who look up to us, and then see a firefighter staggering out of a bar in uniform. Or the homeowner who is hesitant to call us for a potential problem because they think that all we do is go to the firehouse to drink, and when we leave the firehouse, we go to the bar. I know I sure don't want that happening.

[CAM502 6]

Couldn't agree more. A bar is no place to be in full unifrorm [-X . Even if you are off with no intention of responding to a run, Mrs Smith across the street won't know that. Gotta use that thing on your shoulders, before going out grab a t-shirt man! ](*,)

[BIGRED1 71]

I am with you on this one. we should not be in bars in full uniform. i know some of the city guys take there badges off and whatnot so they can not be pinned to any certain house. i think that if you are gonna go to a bar in unifrom, keep it a light night. a drink or two is fire, but blasted out of ones mind, not good. people do look up to us and you don't know what might happen later in the night. maybe someone drives home and has a crash in uniform. not good PR for department. lets all just use our heads and stay smart out there.

[ny10570 745]

parade season is allways good for MANY MANY guys in uniform cruisin around sh*% canned. Drinking to excess is often an all too pervasive and accepted part of the volunteer fire service.

[DOC22 1]

parade season is allways good for MANY MANY guys in uniform cruisin around sh*% canned.  Drinking to excess is often an all too pervasive and accepted part of the volunteer fire service.

Especially in this day of increased liability concerning Drunk Driving, it's just plain FOOLISH!!!!!! not to mention INEXCUSABLE!!!!!

Being a non drinker I guess it's easy for me to find fault with this, BUT it just isn't a good idea. TIMES HAVE CHANGED!!!! What seemed ok years ago might not be today.

[Guest]

parade season is allways good for MANY MANY guys in uniform cruisin around sh*% canned.  Drinking to excess is often an all too pervasive and accepted part of the volunteer fire service.

It's part of the entire fire service, not just the volunteer sector. You're just as likely to see a career firefighter as a volunteer out drinking.

[PVFD113 6]

It has been a long battle to break old trends. There was a time when you would clear a run and go back to the fire house and down quite a few--hell I have heard stories about grabbin a six pack on the way to a run--but those were the good ol' days. People do look up to us in the business. What you do on your own time is your business--don't make it your companies--take it one step further--does it really matter if it is a FF or PD or EMS? You should not go out bar hopping in your company uniform (or vehicle if you have a company car). It is just plain out not right. And as far as parade season--that is a lame a** excuse for getting crocked in uniform--the bull pen is one thing--have a designated--baby sitter to drive--if ya wanna go and party after--fine--lose the uniform--if for nothing else--respect for yourself and your brother/sister emergency services personel.

[Alfons0x66 0]

i think that everyone here is overreacting. If these guys were there in uniform, and were drinking that much, they obviously arent going to be bringing the first line into your neighbors house. Remember, everyone here has done something like this, and are only aggreing with it now because its convienent. If anyone was really worried about them they would have looked at the more important details, are they wearing pagers, and are they driving. You guys just point and look, like hery, I can write about this tomorrow on EmTBRavo, and see how many people are going to agree with me because I work at 60 control. Lets stop critisizing and fix the problem, instead of saying, wow look at these idiots. And I happened to have been at the same bar, and I want to know why this person who saw them, whom i think I know, has the audacity to write this while he was right there drinking with the two firefighters in question. Those are my $.02, shoot me if you dont like it. and cheer up, its st pattys week

[Shantz02 0]

I too happen to have been in that same bar that night. I too agree with Alfons0x66. Sure, it may not be the right thing to do, but posting on here and asking people if they agree is wrong. Im sure Alfons and i are going to get heated responses because we arent fully on everyone elses side, but take a step back for a minute and look at the bigger picture. You werent always perfect and didnt always do things the correct way. So like alfons said, instead of sitting here and running on and on about how bad it is, lets start from the top and try to find a remedy. Not to mention, im sure there are plenty of firehouses that still contain bars in the basement or elsewhere on the property. Whats so different about some firefighters walkin out of a bar drunk and some firefighters walking out of the firehouse drunk? Absolutely nothing.

[LCFD968 10]

Incredible! This thread went from drinking in a bar with his uniform to bars in firehouses. There is another thread for that.

The guy went into a bar and got drunk. It happens, SO WHAT!! Somebody posted a more important issue , how did he or they get home?, Was there someone driving him/them?, Did someone call them a cab? Did they drive there themselves?

Who cares if they are wearing a uniform it sounds like it was all fire and ems personel at the bar so what would it matter if they are wearing a uniform or not? It happens and the only way to stop is to bring back prohibition and that will never happen.

[Guest SQUADco119]

Ok first things first i dont mean to stir up anymore animosity then thier already is and im not going to get involved with the incident that happend that night with guys i dont know most importantly i wasnt there. Yes we all know that drinking is no stranger to the fire service, but whats wrong with change we all know that the fire service has changed alot in over times, buildings are different, technolgy is different and better, training is better etc. So why cant we change the drinking aspect. Now im not saying i dont drink at all even though im not a big drinker but the way i see it if i want a beer or just plain want to get plain s***faced ill go do it at a bar or home why becuase beer should be nowhere in the firehouse. Also if i go to a parade i dont drink. Basicaly if im in uniform than im a fireman, yes i know what your thinking that your wether your in uniform or not but look at it this way. If im plasterd and do something stupid (which with alcohol in your system is easy to do) in uniform then im a drunk idiot fireman making a fool of myself if im in plain clothes then im just a drunk idiot, not to say thats okay either. I never really have been the type to care what people think of me but what you have to remember is when your veiwed as a fireman by the public and you plasterd acting like an idiot it reflects on the whole fire srevice, if you dont believe just watch the news we get a bad wrap alot, does this mean were all drunks ofcourse not but you have to say to yourself what does the person looking at me think. Maybe this is easy for me to say since i come from a dry firehouse but we as firefighters should be looked as profesionals, does this mean we have to be angels no theres a big sifference between the 2. REMEMBER WHAT YOU JOINED OR GOT HIRED TO DO PROTECT PEOPLE AND PROBALY CUASE YOU LOVE FIREFIGHTING TAKE SOME PRIDE IN WHAT YOU DO. IF YOU GOT INVOLVED IN THE FIRE SERVICE TO DRINK WELL THEN YOU NEED TO DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND EVERYONE ELSE QUIT. * this wasnt pointed at anyone or ant specific even, just through my ideas and opinion in on the subject of drinking in the fire service* STAY SAFE OUT THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [-(

[JBE 328]

Public perception once again here. Drink in moderation, make sure you have a DD, and above all, DON'T DO ANYHTING THAT COULD BRING DISCREDIT UPON YOU OR THE DEPARTMENT YOU'RE WITH!!!

[Guest SQUADco119]

whats with this drink in moderation crap, no i dont have a problem with it im not against drinking but if im not mistaking were are here for the public right? so to you it doesnt matter what they think? :-k

[Shantz02 0]

Look, i know for a fact that those guys did not drive themselves home that night. I also know that if they do happen to be out drinking, whether it be a little or a lot, they do not drive themselves at all.

I did not mention bars in firehouses to see which ones still have them, etc. I mentioned it because of their location. Also, I'm sure that people do use those bars to get drunk, etc. What I was trying to say is that leaving a bar that is in some town or city drunk is less likely to bring an opinion from the public (if you are wearing your uniform, then sure there will be some people who decide to judge). If you leave a bar that is located at a firehouse drunk, then the public is much more likely to come to conclussions regardless of what the person is wearing.

Yes, as LCFD968 said, people do go out to bars and get drunk. It shouldnt happen too often, but it does occur. What we as a whole need to do, is stress the correct way of handling ourselves so as to prevent the occurance of other problems.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Personal accountability. If your of legal drinking age have some personal accountability for yourself and your department. Doesn't matter if your in full uniform or wearing a t-shirt from some department you don't work for or are a member of. Noone held a gun to your head to make you become part of the fire service. There is no reason to be in public trashed regardless of who your are, especially if you are in any uniform. The public owes you nothing, you don't get a free pass to feel that you need to bring attention to yourself because you are a firefighter or to be obnoxious to do so.

[PVFD113 6]

Well said ALS

[Alfons0x66 0]

what does wearing a shirt from the fire service whether it be a t or anything else have to do with drinking. any moron can go down to NYC city and buy a FDNY sweatshirt and go to a bar on thursday. When they get trashed and are stumbling around thursday night after the parade, are we gonna say hey, look at the trashed firefighter, no you are gonna say, hey look at him, hes bombed. Nobody looks at my ASI tshirt and says wow he must be a firefighter, especially not in NYC anymore. Face it, I could wear any shirt in the world to a bar, and if im drunk, its not my clothing that is gonna bring attention to me, I completely disagree with you ALS. Everyone here is looking at this in the wrong way. Stop worrying about your image, we are protecting people, whether two of us are home cuz they are wrecked, the public doesnt care. I have to believe the general public has enough common sense to know we arent venting there roof with a bottle of 151 in our hands

[mstrang1 213]

Common sense is not something that everyone has. Remember, lack of common sense of the public is our job security". We would have alot less work if everyone had it, but that is another thread.

On top of it, the original post said they were in UNIFORM, not just a T-shirt. A uniform is something you should have pride in and respect for, and standing on a table stripping it off is NOT respecting the uniform.

PS If anyone outside of the public has seen Rescue Me, there are several times we see Leary's character taking a swig from a flask as they are pulling up to a worker. So don't go assuming they think we wouldn't drink on the job!

[Remember585 815]

First of all, the comment made that "we've all done it" is not true. I know that I can speak for many people, myself included, that have NEVER been drunk in a bar in public in uniform, let alone in a firehouse shirt. At a parade? Yes, a few years back before I came to my senses. Do I agree with drinking at a bar when in uniform - that's a tough one that I'd rather not touch.

Bottom line, whatever you do, be smart about it. You represent yourself, your company and more importantly, your whole service when you wear that uniform. It's bad enough that there's always been a public perception that the fire service is made up from a bunch of lushes, do we really need to keep adding fuel to that fire?!

Here's another question. Is it at all appropriate for a Fire Chief to take the Chief's car to a bar, or even to a grocery store to buy beer for themselves? My humble opinion is no. Reason - if you are driving that car, you are abusing the reason you have it. Leave it home, because you sure as hell better not be responding in it if you're tossing back a couple of tall ones. Someone said to me, "what if I am using it to bring some of the guys out." Simple, if you are not drinking and are available for calls, you're going to respond, and chances are your "loaded" pals will also be in the car. USE YOUR HEADS DAMMIT!!!!!!!

[CAM502 6]

On top of it, the original post said they were in UNIFORM, not just a T-shirt.  A uniform is something you should have pride in and respect for, and standing on a table stripping it off is NOT respecting the uniform.  

Well said. =D> Too bad pride is rare nowadays. Also, sad that people belive everything they see on TV.

[Guest chief865]

Bottom line, members should not be in bars with their uniforms on. Is it going to stop? No.

Does it have an extreme negative affect on the fire service? I don't believe so. Everyone keeps saying that the public has a negative image of the fire service. Do they? Does the "public" as we're implying in this article hang out at bars? Keep in mind that the patrons in bars most likely are drinking themselves. The perception implied in this thread is that the average homeowner is seeing this all the time. They're not, but its no excuse to continue this behavior. I believe there is a majority of people in each community who appreciate what we do.

Do they completely understand what we do? No.

Do they think we drink more than the average person? Yes.

Do I think they can overlook certain situations like getting drunk and dancing in a bar? In my experiences, yes. I only say that because I believe they don't think it happens every day.

The author was looking for a simple opinion. It didn't need to go down the road it did. In reading other posts, there are a bunch of people that don't like the idea of drinking. Fine, I heard you opinions before. There's no need to jump down everyone's throat when the issue arises. Voice your opinion, but don't "hammer" people for having a different one.

[Alfons0x66 0]

585, im not trying to argue, and im sure that the night should have ended sooner, but these firefighters had been in a parade earlier that day, and had gone from bar to bar with about 10 guys, some decided to change, some not, the problem is, smokeshowin gets half a story and just belts it all out on EMTBRavo. These guys had been in a parade earlier that day, then went bar to bar, where they landed at a bar where they have a lot of friends from several other FD's, as a matter of fact, i'd say the bar was 80% FD and the rest friends of FD. My point is, when you dont have a full story, dont blab about it. Yes drinking in excess is a little bad when you are representing your or any FD, but these guys were not stripping on the bar, or disrespecting the FD, get your facts together then come to me with a story

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Alsfons: I have no problem with you disagreeing, in fact I love it, keeps the discussion going.

I'm not referring to the general public wearing any shirt. You can tell who the person whom is a firefighter or I'll put it this way part of the fire service. The moral of the story still comes down to personal accountability and it is not good for public image. Will most think we are doing our job impaired, I'd like to say no...but any percentage in my opinion is bad and irrehensible. Regardless of whether its a half story or not, I read it as a scenario not any specific attack on a department. I thought it was great and invoked many replies and thoughtfulness on the site.

[emt301 4]

Quote by Alfons: "You guys just point and look, like hery, I can write about this tomorrow on EmTBRavo, and see how many people are going to agree with me because I work at 60 control."

What does 60-control have to do with any of this discussion? Nothing. The reference seems a bit negative and unnecessary.

[x648eng119 2]

I happened to be at that bar too that night. I had fun with the guys that we're mentioned, but i walked in, and saw them in uniform, and it took me a second to actually realize what i was seeing. I didn't think that it was such a great idea, but I wasn't about to speak my mind then, and ruin a good night. Here's the scoop that I got directly from the firefighters. They were at a St. Patties day parade in Greenwich, and they all wen't out to drink, and 2 of them left their uniforms on. A simple suggestion, for the future, at least take the jacket and shirt off. How many people don't wear an undershirt under the uniform shirt. Leave the jacket and uniform shirt in the car, and it eliminates this issue. Like everyone else said, times have changed. Maybe they aren't going to respond on a call, but does the average speculating american know that?

[ny10570 745]

I know of some groups that forbid wearing anything affiliated with that organization in bars...the one exception made is for parades. The issue isn't so much as what most people do the majority of the time. At every event I've been too I have yet too see some event worthy of scandal involving ff's and drinking. I think the issue is more about what if. All it takes is once bad incident to do alot of damage. Those two guys that started this thread, in my opinion, weren't doing anything deserving of all this attention. While it may be a bad idea its nothing to get all out of shape over. Whats important is to try and keep the stupid things we do on our own time from affecting our image as professionals.

[x635 4,066]

The particular or speficic incident really doesnt matter, so people in this discussion need to stop being so defensive over that one issue....I think its the whole issue at hand thats being discussed.

In risk of sounding like a prude here, I'm going to state my opinion on this subject. I've often discussed this issue with several other firefighters I know who feel very similar.

Back in the early days of firefighting, the fire department was often a social center in the community. Today, firefighting is a profession. The social club portion should have been clearly seperated from the Suppresion,Rescue, and Education/Prevention division long ago.

Although it can be accepted that firefighters are regular people, and drink like everybody else, is that really the case? I think that when wearing a uniform, we represent our department and everything that stands behind it. When people get drunk, it is normal for them to act out in whatever way they do, and often it is inappropriate while in uniform.

It's acceptable to wear a uniform and drink socially and with signifcant restraint at a department sponsored function such as a dinner , funeral, and similar type events.....but to go out drinking after a parade or other public event should really evoke some serious thought on how the department is being represented. Put yourself on the other side of the picture....Imagine you are in a bar, as a civilain, and in comes a police officer and several other police officers, all very loud and drinking? What kind of image would they present to you? Would you recall this image every time you saw a cop? What would you think if you needed a cop at that very moment? Just some food for thought.

To add to the above, I've heard a comment to the likes of "Well, everyone else was doing it" or "Everybody else was FF's" on this thread...two questions, does that make it right, and is it still not a public place, where people pass by?

As far as chiefs cars outside of bars, thats just plain wrong. If you're going out to socialize for the evening, take your own car.

And as far as alchohol in firehouse, that's just totally unacceptable and a disaster in the making. But that's a whole nother subject.

Will these issues change? I think so. Either when we see a chief that is not afraid of the old-timer and social member backlash, or when a department gets bad press when, and I emphasize WHEN, somethig happens because a member is intoxicated in a uniform, a uniform that implie we are on duty.

[DOC22 1]

I happened to be at that bar too that night. I had fun with the guys that we're mentioned, but i walked in, and saw them in uniform, and it took me a second to actually realize what i was seeing. I didn't think that it was such a great idea, but I wasn't about to speak my mind then, and ruin a good night. Here's the scoop that I got directly from the firefighters. They were at a St. Patties day parade in Greenwich, and they all wen't out to drink, and 2 of them left their uniforms on. A simple suggestion, for the future, at least take the jacket and shirt off. How many people don't wear an undershirt under the uniform shirt. Leave the jacket and uniform shirt in the car, and it eliminates this issue. Like everyone else said, times have changed. Maybe they aren't going to respond on a call, but does the average speculating american know that?

Amen, Brother! I couldn't have said it better myself!!!

[Guest]

The question should be ,were they going to respond to a emergency call after drinking all day. That should be the # 1 concern. Yea these guys or(gals) should've taken off the uniform but that isn't as important as if they responded to a call.

Last week someone mentioned they were at a chief's dinner and the pagers went off and almost the entire room empty out-to resond to the fire that was a mutual aid call from a number of depts. I made a mention of it and my post was deleted.

DRINKING AND FIREFIGHTING DOESN"T MIX- END OF STORY :-k

[firemn23 8]

The one thing I havent heard on this thread is the fact that so many ffs get trashed at a parade and walk around with the public in uniform, or just that ffs walk around before a parade with open beer bottles on the street or the schools parking lot, which is against the law. I can't imagine a time when you will be seen by more of the public in uniform then at a parade.

I remember in 1996 when Ardsley hosted the WCVFA and a man from some department walked straight into the flag pole, was the public watching then of course. Don't get me wrong I am not saying that I am an angel as anyone that knows me can tell you I am not. But if people have problems with it when their department goes to the bar after a drill do you rip into the guys that get bombed and park their car outside with the 300 lights on top of it, or tell your department not to serve beer after a parade or even better dont have an officers party in your own firehouse.

What I am actually saying is that look at what we do on peoples front lawns, in thier streets, on their schools property, or their parks instead of an establishment that everyone there is going their for the exact same reason you are. But don't forget at your local watering hole those people will notice what department you are from because you are wearing something that represents your deparment. I believe this thread was created to improve on others mistakes or on good they have done so, congratulations to the guys that went home and changed first be that drunk assxxxx, just not that drunk assxxxx fireman. Think before you do and dont ruin all the good you have done for a night of fun.