Mohegan EMS now paid?

[newsbuff 286]

I was driving past Mohegan's HQ and saw some Empress guys outside with one of the rigs. Anyone know any more about this, if it's permenant or not?

[aviator70 16]

I heard that they took over there and W.P. at midnight last night, but I can not confirm that and it may be incorrect.

[99subi 121]

I belive they are running one bus for Mohegan. Its a step in the right direction and deffff long over due. Im happy to see the public has finally been put close to first.

[Remember585 815]

What hours will Empress be staffing Mohegan VAC?

And did someone say they are taking over White Plains? I didn't know anything about that, interesting...

Good job addressing the problem, Mohegan. I hope it is a 24/7 thing, because the problem area seems to be overnight.

[newsbuff 286]

Now that my suspicions seem to be validated, good job for Mohegan. I know that they had been having major coverage problems. Finally something good came from this.

[pvfdtowman 8]

from what ive heard (my sources are good but details are limited) yes mohegan vac went with a paid crew of 2 emt/drivers from what im told its 07:00 - 19:00 mon - fri other than that i have nothing else more conclusive or further details A/T/T

[FF398 45]

from what ive heard (my sources are good but details are limited) yes mohegan vac went with a paid crew of 2 emt/drivers from what im told its 07:00 - 19:00 mon - fri other than that i have nothing else more conclusive or further details A/T/T

A friend of mine, who's with Mohegan told me the same thing early today.

[RWC130 594]

Kudos to Mohegan VAC!

[OoO 24]

While I commend Mohegan VAC for recognizing that they cannot sufficiently staff their ambulance during the day with volunteers and using supplementary paid staff, I am disappointed to see that Mohegan VAC did not hire these employees themselves and choose to outsource to Empress. While I recognize that it would be more work for Mohegan to hire their own staff, I think it overall it would be more beneficial to those who staff their ambulance and the EMS community as a whole.

[Beekman 5]

I give Mohegan VAC tremendous credit. To go from 100% volunteer to having a paid crew is a huge step that most departments won't take even though they need to.

Regarding the employees vs contractors, consider this. Someone from Mohegan VAC just pays a bill (if there is one) once a month to Empress and then the Chief/Captain handles any issues that may come up. If you direct hire employees, you have a fixed number of employees, whereas Empress can pull any of their employees to fill in shifts at Mohegan VAC and you are also not dealing with the whole human resources aspect of the paid crews (vacation and sick coverage, benefits, training, certifications, terminations, hirings, physicals, immunizations, etc.)

Beekman pays a bill once a month and TransCare handles everything else. I don't need any more headaches and I'm sure Mohegan VAC doesn't either.

[velcroMedic1987 330]

Good for Mohegan. As busy as they are I'm surprised it took this long.

It's much easier to contract with a company than to hire your own staff. Probaly costs a lot less too.

[JM15 386]

This seems like it may be becoming a new trend in N. Westchester as Somers is contracting out to WEMS for an ambulance 24/7

[StOpGoBlUE 11]

yes this is true empress wil be there 7 days a week from 7am-7pm, with 2 emts , one emt will go on a job with a volunteer who is a roster crew and the other with stay back in case they get hit with a second job or in the most serious case if there is a serious job the 2 empress emts will take the bus and mohegan vacs crew will meet them there. mohegan is a very great corps and myself am looking foward to working with them to give them a helpin hand that i here is much needed.. as for the white plains there in not truth to that at all transcare has that contract..

[bigyellowtaxi 6]

OH PLEASE STOP ALL THE BACK PATTING!!!!!!!!!

This is simple economics 101. If I am giving away 40% of my calls I am not making money on these calls.

So I contract for $400.00 a day for coverage and bill an average $400.00 a call, they are making 80% instead of 60% even for 5 calls a day.

At 5 calls a day after the first call its a profit of $1600 before expenses, not a bad days pay for sitting back. Who will lay me odds that the poor VAC will all so solicit funds in the form of donations. All this and they give their members a $400.00 a month LOSAP.

It will probably be promoted as its helping the public, but they are also helping themselves more

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

OH PLEASE STOP ALL THE BACK PATTING!!!!!!!!!

This is simple economics 101. If I am giving away 40% of my calls I am not making money on these calls.

So I contract for $400.00 a day for coverage and bill an average $400.00 a call, they are making 80% instead of 60% even for 5 calls a day.

At 5 calls a day after the first call its a profit of $1600 before expenses, not a bad days pay for sitting back. Who will lay me odds that the poor VAC will all so solicit funds in the form of donations. All this and they give their members a $400.00 a month LOSAP.

It will probably be promoted as its helping the public, but they are also helping themselves more

Who cares about the money? Honestly, is all that you can say, is that this does not make economic sense. What about the reliable, available, trained and ready EMS services that are now guaranteed to be provided to this district. That is what it is all about, providing the best possible service and saving lives, once those are covered, all other points are moot.

Good for Mohegan VAC, I am sure that this was a hard step to take but eventually, everyone from citizens/residents to providers will benefit from this change.

I just wish more would realize their shortcomings and take progressive and proactive steps to provide equal, timely, adequate and effective EMS care to their tax payers, residents and citizens.

Edited June 12, 2010 by bvfdjc316

[firefighter36 52]

Who cares about the money? Honestly, is all that you can say, is that this does not make economic sense. What about the reliable, available, trained and ready EMS services that are now guaranteed to be provided to this district. That is what it is all about, providing the best possible service and saving lives, once those are covered, all other points are moot.

I'm sure plenty of taxpayers, as well as the Attorney General, NYS Insurances Dept., or NYS Comptroller's Office care plenty!

[INIT915 1,119]

OH PLEASE STOP ALL THE BACK PATTING!!!!!!!!!

This is simple economics 101. If I am giving away 40% of my calls I am not making money on these calls.

So I contract for $400.00 a day for coverage and bill an average $400.00 a call, they are making 80% instead of 60% even for 5 calls a day.

At 5 calls a day after the first call its a profit of $1600 before expenses, not a bad days pay for sitting back. Who will lay me odds that the poor VAC will all so solicit funds in the form of donations. All this and they give their members a $400.00 a month LOSAP.

It will probably be promoted as its helping the public, but they are also helping themselves more

Well, I for one say continue the "back patting." Knowing some of the guys from Mohegan, I don't believe for one second the change was made in order to clear a larger profit. I think the membership of Mohegan realized the time had come to augment their volunteer staffing and a logical choice was made to contract out to one of several local commercial agencies that have experience in contracting VAC's.

I think to imply the decision was based on revenue is preposterous. I think Mohegan realized too many calls were going uncovered too much of the time, and they stepped up to the plate to address it.

Now, to ask a legitimate (albeit inevitably controversial question), any talk of working the VAC into the existing career network at Mohegan. One of the reasons it makes sense is, there is already framework in place for some of the concerns that would be raised if starting a civil service program from the ground up. For instance, they already pay salary, benefits, etc to the career staff. So, would adding in either combination FF/EMT's, or start hiring straight EMT's off a competitive civil service list be a feasible option for the multiple entities that make up Mohegan, the VFAVAC, the District, and the Fire Company??

[Oswegowind 17]

OH PLEASE STOP ALL THE BACK PATTING!!!!!!!!!

This is simple economics 101. If I am giving away 40% of my calls I am not making money on these calls.

So I contract for $400.00 a day for coverage and bill an average $400.00 a call, they are making 80% instead of 60% even for 5 calls a day.

At 5 calls a day after the first call its a profit of $1600 before expenses, not a bad days pay for sitting back. Who will lay me odds that the poor VAC will all so solicit funds in the form of donations. All this and they give their members a $400.00 a month LOSAP.

It will probably be promoted as its helping the public, but they are also helping themselves more

I'm sorry, but do you really think the members of the LMFDVAC are profiteering by providing a full crew to respond to emergencies when they were failing to do so before. Do you really think that this is what their agenda is, REALLY? An EMS Ponzi scheme? Okay, but thanks anyway.

[Raz 14]

I give Mohegan VAC tremendous credit. To go from 100% volunteer to having a paid crew is a huge step that most departments won't take even though they need to.

. What about the reliable, available, trained and ready EMS services that are now guaranteed to be provided to this district.

I think the membership of Mohegan realized the time had come to augment their volunteer staffing and a logical choice was made to contract out to one of several local commercial agencies that have experience in contracting VAC's.

Before this thread spirals down into a back and forth argument (that deserves to be heard), we should all be clear on a point. Mohegan VAC has been augmented for years by The Cortlandt Regional Paramedics, The Peekskill FD Medics, and The LMFD career guys. They haven't been 100% volunteer for as far as I can remember. That's not a mark against them, it's just a fact that should be included when we're making our points in this discussion. From my short time working in that area, I remember an awful lot of grunt work being done by guys from agencies that had no affiliation with the VAC, but they were depended on all the same, and this changeover would've come years ago if they hadn't been there to take up the slack.

[firefighter36 52]

Well, I for one say continue the "back patting." Knowing some of the guys from Mohegan, I don't believe for one second the change was made in order to clear a larger profit. I think the membership of Mohegan realized the time had come to augment their volunteer staffing and a logical choice was made to contract out to one of several local commercial agencies that have experience in contracting VAC's.

I think to imply the decision was based on revenue is preposterous. I think Mohegan realized too many calls were going uncovered too much of the time, and they stepped up to the plate to address it.

Now, to ask a legitimate (albeit inevitably controversial question), any talk of working the VAC into the existing career network at Mohegan. One of the reasons it makes sense is, there is already framework in place for some of the concerns that would be raised if starting a civil service program from the ground up. For instance, they already pay salary, benefits, etc to the career staff. So, would adding in either combination FF/EMT's, or start hiring straight EMT's off a competitive civil service list be a feasible option for the multiple entities that make up Mohegan, the VFAVAC, the District, and the Fire Company??

If the staffing was done any other way, there would be no legal mechanism for EMS billing. Look at NYS law. Technically, the VFA, the VFAVAC and the Fire District are all separate entities. If my knowledge and research is correct, the Fire District Contracts for volunteer services with the VFA, and the career members are employees of the Fire District.

By keeping the VAC separate with separate staffing, they can continue to bill. If the fire district were to take it over, they would not be able to bill for EMS services. I would also venture to say that any other means of staffing other that contracting the way it is could violate a whole other bunch of labor laws.

Regardless of intent, let's not forget that NYS case law prohibits EMS billing by a municipality for purposes of making a profit. The argument therein would ask is the VFAVAC a municipal agency? I would infer that several different arguments would be made.

[INIT915 1,119]

Before this thread spirals down into a back and forth argument (that deserves to be heard), we should all be clear on a point. Mohegan VAC has been augmented for years by The Cortlandt Regional Paramedics, The Peekskill FD Medics, and The LMFD career guys. They haven't been 100% volunteer for as far as I can remember. That's not a mark against them, it's just a fact that should be included when we're making our points in this discussion. From my short time working in that area, I remember an awful lot of grunt work being done by guys from agencies that had no affiliation with the VAC, but they were depended on all the same, and this changeover would've come years ago if they hadn't been there to take up the slack.

As a member for several years of CRP, I am acutely aware of the situation.

[Oswegowind 17]

Raz, there was also another solution that was brought up years ago that never came to implementation. When I rode for Peekskill and Cortlandt I suggested a regional task force for EMT coverage that centered around an EMT volunteer being assigned to each CRP medic fly car. This would've helped a little, as I used to ride with a couple medics on my days off and rode in numerous BLS calls in Mohegan's "bus" as a courtesy. There were too many people who were against it becoming a reality...no one wanted to "join forces" so to say.

It is usually difficult to get everyone to agree that there is an actual problem and then everyone has their own solution...maybe the day will come when the VACs covered by CRP can merge and provide better service to the taxpayers either through the availability of personnel or hiring staffing together...

[bolus 0]

Raz, there was also another solution that was brought up years ago that never came to implementation. When I rode for Peekskill and Cortlandt I suggested a regional task force for EMT coverage that centered around an EMT volunteer being assigned to each CRP medic fly car. This would've helped a little, as I used to ride with a couple medics on my days off and rode in numerous BLS calls in Mohegan's "bus" as a courtesy. There were too many people who were against it becoming a reality...no one wanted to "join forces" so to say.

It is usually difficult to get everyone to agree that there is an actual problem and then everyone has their own solution...maybe the day will come when the VACs covered by CRP can merge and provide better service to the taxpayers either through the availability of personnel or hiring staffing together...

Good idea

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Raz, there was also another solution that was brought up years ago that never came to implementation. When I rode for Peekskill and Cortlandt I suggested a regional task force for EMT coverage that centered around an EMT volunteer being assigned to each CRP medic fly car. This would've helped a little, as I used to ride with a couple medics on my days off and rode in numerous BLS calls in Mohegan's "bus" as a courtesy. There were too many people who were against it becoming a reality...no one wanted to "join forces" so to say.

It is usually difficult to get everyone to agree that there is an actual problem and then everyone has their own solution...maybe the day will come when the VACs covered by CRP can merge and provide better service to the taxpayers either through the availability of personnel or hiring staffing together...

Great concept but CPP (its no longer CRP) as the name changed to "Cortlandt Peekskill Paramedics"is supplemented by the Peekskill FD FF/Paramedics utilizing CPP equipment and under their CON. There is no way to faciliate having a volunteer EMT ride with the FD medics whom based on the rotation in place cover the eastern side of Peekskill and Mohegan every other week first due as we also have fire responsibilities.

I applaud Mohegan VAC for finally doing this...to be blunt..its overdue...long overdue. The only thing I can say and I'm using honesty so save the boo hoos for someone else is that I didn't have many problems weekdays as they had crews. Its at evening, nights and weekends that tend to be the huge problems. Not every day as there are a few reliable duty crews who I enjoy working with...but its almost like clockwork at some. I also just hope that because its staffed they don't continue to cut down on BLSFR from the FD. Its a huge district and the respond by closest station and stopping the clock is important to get someone there and also having that extra set of hands by experienced EMT's who have been doing this for years is a great asset to me and my colleagues.

[DCJPells 29]

If the staffing was done any other way, there would be no legal mechanism for EMS billing. Look at NYS law. Technically, the VFA, the VFAVAC and the Fire District are all separate entities. If my knowledge and research is correct, the Fire District Contracts for volunteer services with the VFA, and the career members are employees of the Fire District.

By keeping the VAC separate with separate staffing, they can continue to bill. If the fire district were to take it over, they would not be able to bill for EMS services. I would also venture to say that any other means of staffing other that contracting the way it is could violate a whole other bunch of labor laws.

Regardless of intent, let's not forget that NYS case law prohibits EMS billing by a municipality for purposes of making a profit. The argument therein would ask is the VFAVAC a municipal agency? I would infer that several different arguments would be made.

If my memory serves me correct, The VAC separated from the FD to do just that. Bill.

[bigyellowtaxi 6]

OK here it is as told to me from a member. During the month of May over 80% of calls were given away. That is to say 80% of their revenue was given away.

The volunteers broke away from the fire district, with the permission of the commissioners, for the express reason that they charge for response. Last I heard the VAC and the paid Firefighters responded to 2000 calls a year. So 2000 X $400.00 = $800,000.00. and the paid firefighters and the Paramedics are paid by the tax payers.

So where is $800,000.00 going? Surly not into equipment or supplies or the price of manpower. (Manpower is free, right?)

While they supply transport, Oxygen, Band aids, training(this is questionable)and vehicles. This could not cost more then $100,000.00

AHH maybe it is cut up at the fire house. Since the Volunteer Fire association does not charge for calls, they charge the VAC rent. This way money can be laundered and used as they please. So they charge the VAC $10,000.00 a month (actual figure unknown) and they walk away with $120,000.00 a year for floor space rental.

The left over is $580,000.00. So where is all the money? Why is the Fire District not being reimbursed for sending their paid firefighters to the scene that they are not responsible for? Are the VACs reimbursing the Towns to help defray the cost of the Paramedics, or are they just stuffing their coffers. The taxpayers are already paying for these services, if you would like to charge a person not living in your town that’s maybe something I can get on board with. I pay enough taxes in the town of Cortlandt now. But to break away from the Mohegan Fire district just so you can bill people is a crime, more of the hidden cost of volunteers.

So does someone out there know where all the money is?

[INIT915 1,119]

OK here it is as told to me from a member. During the month of May over 80% of calls were given away. That is to say 80% of their revenue was given away.

The volunteers broke away from the fire district, with the permission of the commissioners, for the express reason that they charge for response. Last I heard the VAC and the paid Firefighters responded to 2000 calls a year. So 2000 X $400.00 = $800,000.00. and the paid firefighters and the Paramedics are paid by the tax payers.

So where is $800,000.00 going? Surly not into equipment or supplies or the price of manpower. (Manpower is free, right?)

While they supply transport, Oxygen, Band aids, training(this is questionable)and vehicles. This could not cost more then $100,000.00

AHH maybe it is cut up at the fire house. Since the Volunteer Fire association does not charge for calls, they charge the VAC rent. This way money can be laundered and used as they please. So they charge the VAC $10,000.00 a month (actual figure unknown) and they walk away with $120,000.00 a year for floor space rental.

The left over is $580,000.00. So where is all the money? Why is the Fire District not being reimbursed for sending their paid firefighters to the scene that they are not responsible for? Are the VACs reimbursing the Towns to help defray the cost of the Paramedics, or are they just stuffing their coffers. The taxpayers are already paying for these services, if you would like to charge a person not living in your town that’s maybe something I can get on board with. I pay enough taxes in the town of Cortlandt now. But to break away from the Mohegan Fire district just so you can bill people is a crime, more of the hidden cost of volunteers.

So does someone out there know where all the money is?

Wow, alleging money laundering and grand larceny? Pretty serious charges. Any offer of proof???

[newsbuff 286]

So does someone out there know where all the money is?

I would love to see an audit from the state about the VAC finances, because it sounds like you are on to something.

[smwells 7]

As a member of one of the agencies that "backs up" Mohegan on a frequent basis, I am glad that they have made the decision to augment coverage. But, coverage is not a 9-5 problem, for them or many other departments.

Unfortunately for Mohegan, the area has an abundance of senior,low income and mildly insured residents, that drive up call volumes for minor issues.

As for where the money goes, one of their members mentioned to me a few years back, that Yorktown gets reimbursed some amount for the Empress Medic from the billing. I don't have anything to prove it, but it would make sense.

[ems-buff 81]

How did this topic go from Mohegan EMS getting help with paid supplemental staff to audits of Vac's please keep on point with your post. If you feel that another topic needs to be formed, then please start a new topic..