Self Defense

[JBE 328]

I was related this situation by a friend of mine in the Midwest. It seems he rolled up on an unconcious in a car. The brother of the patient was standing outside the car, and when he was asked to move, the brother belted the Lieutenant. In the process, the Lt. had some serious damage done and is now looking at surgery to repair some f'ed up sinuses.

Here's my question, if you roll up on something and while initiating care, a bystander decides he or she is gonna take a swing, what are the protocols covering self defense, or do you back off the scene and patient until PD arrives??

The reason I ask this is a number of years back, another friend of mine was acosted while attempting patient care at an MVA. A gentleman became rather agitated and charged the Medic and took a swing at him with a folding cane. The Medic blocked the cane and decked the guy, breaking the aforementioned acosters' nose in the process. The Medic got off scot free. This Lieutenant tells me he is bound by state law not to act in defense or retaliation.

Personally I woulda beat the snot out of the skell.

Input appreciated.

JBE

[mikeinet 37]

Personally, I don't care if i'm in an ambulance, a fire engine, or what... if someone tries something on me, it's going right back at them - if you can reasonably prove what you do is in self-defence, then no court is going to argue it. I find it hard to believe that a state says an "EMT cannot withhold self defence mechanisms if need be" - I know a number of EMTs that carry knives as well as other things for worse-case senarios.

[x648eng119 2]

Do you think I carry a 5 D-cell MagLite for the candlepower?

Two words - "Tuning Stick"

[Guest NYTruckie]

I once had a patient bite me, while in SP custody. She was sitting in a chair handcuffed, I was on my knees to take her BP when she bit my right elbow. I push her head into the wall her head bounced off about 4 inch's then she let my arm go. Her eyes rolled back then she try to kick and spit at me I put her on the floor and the trooper stood on her. The troopers asked me if I was OK, the put a piece of paper infront of me to sign. The paper was an assult on a uniform worker complaint. Nothing happen to me she went to the hospital then was arrested for assult on a uniform worker.

[MGMedic 0]

The list of priorities is simple......Me, my partner, our patient, patients' family.

[Oswegowind 17]

I believe that all EMS personell need to exercise common sense, be prepared, and have some knowledge of self defense...

Personally I have run into some situations while I worked as an EMT in Yonkers...in one my partner and I rec'd bad info as to a 4 year old EDP called in by the father...policy sts, "wait for the police"...however our spvr std that since the 3 trucks and multi 2/3/4 pct units were tied up on a home invansion rob w/ shooting that we should proceed in and evaluate the sit. feeling that were knew what to do...4 y/o EDP should be easy huh...well you know those feelings you get as you do this longer and longer??? well I do and this was one of those times something wasn't right...we entered the bldg and on the way up I turned to my partner and let him know it wasn't going to be routine and unfortunately I was right...upon entering the apt...my partner (901!!!!!!--still my favorite partner though) allowed the door to shut behind us...while interviewing the caller/complainant/father...his 34yo daughter whom was a paranoid schizo/bi polar/off meds EDP came around the corner...the father ran and hid in the bedroom and it was me and her...and she wasn't a light-weight...screaming and yelling at us...thinks we are the police...I was prepared to fight my way out if I had too...she and I stood off for approx. 5 minutes while my partner left me in the apt alone to radio in for backup...she backed off momentarily and I got out...first radio car arrives and we are discussing what to do when she comes out and brings it to us...Needless to say she lost at this time but it took the 3 of us to take her down and cuff her...of course a moment later the elevator opened and there was the cavalry...not my fav call but all ended well and no one got hurt...

I knew I would be able to defend myself however there is no reason to get into something without the approp man power...but all persons going to these calls should have some type of training...and if you don't then stand back...and wait for those who know...and use your common sense, don't let someone mentally unstable...whether intoxicated/high/edp/diabetic...get the advantage...always stage yourself with an exit and a defense...stand to the side...make it hard for them to grab you...take your speaker mic wire out of reach...wear a clip on tie if your uniform requires one...when knocking on any door stand to the side, not directly in front...and try not to agitate persons when you don't have too...and as the last person said you, your partner, your equip, and then everybody else...and use your head...oh yeah stay safe out there...

[Oswegowind 17]

Oh yeah and thanks go out to the 202 car (especially billy sullivan!)...and all the ESU guys that busted their asses to get there asap...

[Guest]

The protocols are in place for a reason, wait for the cops. Don't let supervisors prod you along just so they can free up another unit. Wait for the cops downstairs, it's just not worth it. We don't carry guns, mace, or nightsticks, although sometimes you'll see tech's acting like they do. Try not to let what your trained to do get confused with what you think you can do.

[Oswegowind 17]

Don't let supervisors prod you along just so they can free up another unit.

Not the case...very slow at the time...just based on the info obtained by a dispatcher...unknown pd/fd/ems...

[x648eng119 2]

I know a few medics that have the propper training, are authorized by their organization (whether it's legal or not) and do carry both pepper spray and expandable batons. They have never used them on someone, and hope they never have to, but it's a $^#*-ed up world out there, and you never know who is going to attack you.