Yonkers New Deliveries

[jjpinto 297]

Here you go the new apparatus deliveries for Yonkers

Squad 11

Engine 309

Ladder 72

Edited May 25, 2010 by jjpinto

[x635 4,066]

Awesome shots, long awaited by many! Thank you Joe for tak9ing and sharing these!

They also look spec'd to work, and Yonkers got a great deal on these as well!

[spyda308 11]

Very nice, they look great. I Passed 309 today on the parkway by Valhalla. What about 308?

[BFD1054 1,552]

As always, great pictures Joe and thanks for sharing them with us.

I have always been impressed with the way Yonkers spec's their rigs. They spec their rigs to be functional and not over the top. They spec them to their needs and design them to run and catch work.

I must say that i like the side-view mirrors on the rigs for the safety of the members exiting the rigs. I also like that YFD has the bumper-mounted bells on their rig, keeps the history alive.

I dont remember from the thread on here, but are these Smeal on Spartan chassis?

Great looking rigs and best of luck to the YFD with them.

[SteveOFD 176]

Until I looked at some pictures of previous YFD Engines, I did not realize that some previous Engines(ALF SQ11 & HME/Smeal's among others) had Mattydale (crosslay) preconnects like the new E309 & SQ11 have. Interesting.

Also, it looks like all three apparatus pictured above have folding light towers. Nice.

Edited May 26, 2010 by SteveOFD

[billfitz 109]

*prepiped waterway

*remote control TFT Deck guns

*folding light towers

*1500 GPM pumpers

*First time for YFD

Squad & Ladder

= XRT power system for extrication

= Lukas outlets recessed in front bumper

= 10K harrison generator

= 200' cord reels (2)

= 100' Hyraulic reels (2)

[JBE 328]

Very Impressive..

[PFDRes47cue 653]

Great looking rigs. Great shots as always. I too am a big fan of the side view mirrors for the crew to use to get out safely.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

Nice Pictures. Great looking apparatus. Any chance of compartment shots or will those be posted once the apparatus are outfitted and placed in service?

When can we expect them inservice by if all goes to plan?

[billfitz 109]

most likely next week

[61MACKBR1 222]

Good Looking Rigs YFD. Once the 2 New ALF's (306 & 308) arrive shortly, the Yonkers FD Fleet will certainly be the envy of many. Well laid out and thought out rigs. Kudos to Chief Fitzpatrick and the New Apparatus Committee for a job well done. I'd bet that many a Career Department here in Westchester County would like to have YFD's Spare/Reserve Fleet as their front line apparatus fleet.

Hey Chief Fitzpatrick - What are the plans for the Old TL 77 and Spare Ladder 79 once the New Ladder 72 goes into service and the current Ladder 72 goes into the Spare/Reserve Pool? Out To Auction? (are their any other current rigs in the Spare/Reserve pool also being planned to go out for Auction?)

[TL2L31 8]

When my dept was in the process of looking at a new ladder,we saw the capabilities of the old L72 with its front A frame jacking system. We also prepiped our waterway. It was exactly waht we were looking for and are very happy with our Smeal. God luck with the new rigs.

*prepiped waterway

*remote control TFT Deck guns

*folding light towers

*1500 GPM pumpers

*First time for YFD

Squad & Ladder

= XRT power system for extrication

= Lukas outlets recessed in front bumper

= 10K harrison generator

= 200' cord reels (2)

= 100' Hyraulic reels (2)

[FDNY 10-75 640]

Great stuff!

[61MACKBR1 222]

With the New E309 and Squad 11 both being 1500 GPM Pumpers, does that mean that E309 is the main served High Output Pumper for the West Side and Sqaud 11 being the main served High Output Pumper for the East Side, given that these two units are the first 1500 GPM Pumpers in the YFD Fleet?

*prepiped waterway

*remote control TFT Deck guns

*folding light towers

*1500 GPM pumpers

*First time for YFD

Squad & Ladder

= XRT power system for extrication

= Lukas outlets recessed in front bumper

= 10K harrison generator

= 200' cord reels (2)

= 100' Hyraulic reels (2)

[shfd86eng 1]

Nice Trucks yonkers you guys work hard in that city.

Now what kind are they?

[FF398 45]

Nice rigs YFD!

[huzzie59 75]

What was the cost of these rigs?

[billfitz 109]

What was the cost of these rigs?

450K Pumper

540K Squad

715K ladder

[helicopper 1,050]

450K Pumper

540K Squad

715K ladder

Wow, that means another FD recently in the news could almost have gotten 2 engines for the price of one.

[Tanker 10eng 140]

I still do not undertsand why the 2006 Squad 11 had to replaced after 4 years of service ??? was there problems with it ???

I understand the normal FDNY apparatus life is 10 years. So while we are complaining about another FD purchasing a rig for 600 K, and has a design life of 20 + years, I am sure the 300 K ( ? ) spent on the old Squad 11 for 4 years, was not invested well...

[Anesti 329]

I still do not undertsand why the 2006 Squad 11 had to replaced after 4 years of service ??? was there problems with it ???

I understand the normal FDNY apparatus life is 10 years. So while we are complaining about another FD purchasing a rig for 600 K, and has a design life of 20 + years, I am sure the 300 K ( ? ) spent on the old Squad 11 for 4 years, was not invested well...

yonkers dosent have a adaquate spare for the squad that can carry all the tools.

[x635 4,066]

I still do not undertsand why the 2006 Squad 11 had to replaced after 4 years of service ??? was there problems with it ???

I understand the normal FDNY apparatus life is 10 years. So while we are complaining about another FD purchasing a rig for 600 K, and has a design life of 20 + years, I am sure the 300 K ( ? ) spent on the old Squad 11 for 4 years, was not invested well...

As usual, there's a thread about a volunteer department, so you have to find a thread to go after career firefighters. It seems like a trend.

First, Tarrytown's situation is COMPLETLY different from Yonkers. In no way are the situations discussed are even similar. Don't even know why you are bringing this up. And unlike Tarrytown, Yonkers followed the PROPER bidding process through and through. In fact. you're making Tarrytowns situation look worse by bringing this up here.

Yonkers needs a spare squad, as mentioned above, so that they could have a proper spare. In addition, the ALF Squad that's becoming a spare will most likely be fully stocked, so there is a major incident and a callback, the spare squad can be staffed. Also, Squad 11 sees heavy duty use, so a spare is needed for when it goes out of service for preventative maintanence or whatever.

To say that the money was not invested well is ridiculous. Have you ever seen the current Squad 11 up close, and see the amazing cost they got it at? At the cost Yonkers got these apparatus at, in addition to what I said above, and to say that money was wasted, is just ignorant.

Move on.

[Tanker 10eng 140]

As usual, there's a thread about a volunteer department, so you have to find a thread to go after career firefighters. It seems like a trend.

Actually, if you look back and little bit prior to my question, it was chris192 who brought up the whole volunteer issue...I fell stupid to asking an honest question.

In fact. you're making Tarrytowns situation look worse by bringing this up here

that can be debatable.. its your opinion...

Yonkers needs a spare squad, as mentioned above, so that they could have a proper spare. In addition, the ALF Squad that's becoming a spare will most likely be fully stocked, so there is a major incident and a callback, the spare squad can be staffed. Also, Squad 11 sees heavy duty use, so a spare is needed for when it goes out of service for preventative maintanence or whatever.

This may be my problem here, I am from a small village, who does not have the funds for a " full stocked " spare rig... a large city may have that luxuary, but it is out of my understanding.... when our engine goes out from PM, well remove all the special and needed equipment... Croton does not have a "squad ", but my understanding, the squad is a well equipped engine, with the tools and equipment to handle main tasks, right ? so why not just use a " spare engine " from the motor pool... is it worth tax dollars to have a 4 year old rig as a spare ?, and have both rigs fully stocked ?? with one sitting around waiting to be used... may be , but I would have a hard time selling it to my village... if they were planning on adding a squad to the fleet then it makes sense...

To say that the money was not invested well is ridiculous. Have you ever seen the current Squad 11 up close, and see the amazing cost they got it at? At the cost Yonkers got these apparatus at, in addition to what I said above, and to say that money was wasted, is just ignorant.

No, I have never seen the current squad 11, but I am sure it is loaded up and laid out with very tool they need, and so they should have. You need to provide the guys who are doing the job with everything they need to get the job done.... but do they need 2 ? All I wanted to know, is why do you really need to replace a 4 year old rig?? ...

[billfitz 109]

Because of the special equipment the Squad carries - LDH, extrication, tech rescue, hazmat etc. a normal spare Engine does not have the capability of carrying the equipment necessary for the Squad to perform its functions, - some of our other units also have dedicated spares (LDH, TL, Ladders w/ extrication equipment) The spare squad can also serve as a spare for the Rescue. Our goal is 8-10 years frontline and 10-15 years spare reserve. The days of getting 20 years out of a rig are gone. We will still get the bang for our buck out of that 06 ALF. We also utilize Spare/reserve for special events, recalls and mutual aid.

A fully stocked spare is not a luxury - it is a necessity to have fully equipped spares = it cuts down on time to switch over for repairs & PM's - from hours to minutes. as well as having the rigs available for other assignments - Mutual aid, special events and major incidents - I could not agree more in a village that does a couple of hundred runs a year that would be luxury.

[Guest]

a fully stocked spare is not a luxury - it is a necessity to have fully equipped spares = it cuts down on time to switch over for repairs & PM's - from hours to minutes. as well as having the rigs available for other assignments - Mutual aid, special events and major incidents - I could not agree more in a village that does a couple of hundred runs a year that would be luxury.

Good questions by Tanker 10eng, and good replies from billfitz.

Same question that I had regarding Greenville's "Squad," what is the staffing of SQD11 in Yonkers?

[billfitz 109]

Good questions by Tanker 10eng, and good replies from billfitz.

Same question that I had regarding Greenville's "Squad," what is the staffing of SQD11 in Yonkers?

Officer and 3 FF's = same as all YFD Units

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Having an up to date spare fleet is NOT a "luxury" its the result of good financial planning. Kudos to Yonkers for not just throwing up their hands and saying "oh well" when a rig goes out of service, they plan ahead and make sure they have what they need to continue the same level of consistent service.

[61MACKBR1 222]

Chief Fitz - Has the 2000 ALF Spare Rescue (Rescue 2) returned from the repair shop and is it available to be used as the Primary Back Up to the front line Rescue 1?

[Bnechis 3,961]

This may be my problem here, I am from a small village, who does not have the funds for a " full stocked " spare rig... a large city may have that luxuary, but it is out of my understanding.... when our engine goes out from PM, well remove all the special and needed equipment... Croton does not have a "squad ", but my understanding, the squad is a well equipped engine, with the tools and equipment to handle main tasks, right ? so why not just use a " spare engine " from the motor pool... is it worth tax dollars to have a 4 year old rig as a spare ?, and have both rigs fully stocked ?? with one sitting around waiting to be used... may be , but I would have a hard time selling it to my village... if they were planning on adding a squad to the fleet then it makes sense...

There are a host of issues here.

1) In a large and busy dept. it is not uncommon for a rig (even a newer one) to be out of service 15-20% of the time. In a city the size of Yonkers, that would mean the squad would have to leave there quarters on the West side, drive across town to get the spare, then unload the primare rig and load the spare, then take the rig to the shop. All of this gets repeated when its done. This can take the company out of service for an hour or more. If the shop has a 2 hour job it means the crew may be out of service almost as long just switching rigs.

2) Our newest "standard" engines have been given additional equipment that we never use to carry (TIC's, gas detectors, FAST, Water rescue, more foam & foam equipment, more EMS equipment, etc.) It is very difficult to switch over to a spare and fit all the new equipment, since they have 1/2 the storage space. Much of the additional equipment gets left on the floor. Now add to that the squad equipment, YFD Squad 11 carries more rescue equipment than many of the large "heavy rescue" box units in Westchester. In Sq2 (NRFD E22) we carry all the equipment of a standard engine plus, Level A & B suits, Hazmat boots, reference materials, multiple gas detectors, radiation detectors, drager tubes, WMD agent detectors, Antidote Kits, 4 additional Hazmat SCBA's with 1 hour packs and 8 additional 1 hour bottles, PAPR's, Hazmat Skeds, 4 Hazmat tool kits, Extra foam and extra absorbant (plus a bunch of other stuff) if the rig goes out of service you need another rig with enough compartments to hold it all.

3) Most larger depts. have 2 different terms: Spare and Reserve. A spare is uniquipped and you switch over when a primary rig is out of service (particularly for long periods). Sometimes they do not even have hose, then that gets switched also. A reserve unit fills in as a spare, but also can be staffed with call back members to beef up the departmet during storms or other major emergencies. Most city's have fewer companies than they should and get away with that by beefing things up as needed. This is based on the city's wanting to base staffing on slow times and not busy times.

4) lastly in any larger department there is a greater chance the rig will be involved in an MVA than in a small village. I suspect Sq 11 response to 3 or 4 times the number of calls as your whole dept. plus its on the street everyday doing training and inspections. Plus driving in Yonkers can get very rough. There is a very good chance that it will get hit or hit something and go out of service for many months. In a busy dept you can not have critical equipment out of service for days or even hours, without a spare they could be out for months. And if the rig was ever distroyed it could take up to 2 years to get it replaced.

5) the finances in a big fleet will equill out as this spare will be used a little lighter than the other spares, it will require less maintenance, they may also be able to keep the front line rig without replacement for an extra year or two, because they have a good spare, and if its included as an "extra" spare, then the rest of the spares will also last a little longer.

[mfc2257 464]

Barry and the rest of the career guys commenting on this are correct. A special operations rig (Squad or Rescue) should have a "ready reserve" rig to replace or back-fill it instantly. A standard engine company doesn't need a 1:1 ratio of front line to reserve because the chances of every front line engine being out of service at once is remote.

The need for fully equipped ready reserves is not a career vs. vollie thing as many will point the discussion towards.... It's a component of call volume, geography, potential fire load, potential extrication load, combined with bread and butter work. There are plenty of vollie departments in the Northern Virginia, Southern Maryland, Baltimore, Washington metro area who have ready reserves that get used regularly. There are also several career departments who don't that REALLY need them...

One final point about harping on why departments need one rig vs another.... A topic on this board was posted some time ago about a new Seagrave tandem axle heavy rescue that was purchased by a vollie department in nowheresville Delaware I believe. Some folks mentioned what a waste it was and how could they ever use it to it's potential.... To this, I say that specing apparatus should be done based on the criteria I listed above as well as the next nearest unit that can provide a similar service and what the load of similar criteria are for it (the next available unit). If a department in the middle of nowhere covers a 20 mile stretch of highway and the nearest heavy rescue is at least that far away OR doesn't have access to the highway in a timely matter, then they are justified in buying a piece of equipment that can handle an extensive call without immediate assistance..... The direct opposite of this is what has happened in Westchester with the number of aerial devices, let alone tower ladders are piled on top of each other which is something I've taken major issue with over the past few years. Cut the number of tower ladders in half AND reduce the overall number of aerial devices by 25-35% and everyone in northern Westchester benefits. The crews of the remaining truck companies get enough work to keep their skills up and you end up with more competent truck companies, AND the taxpayers save by reducing expenses.

Edited May 28, 2010 by mfc2257