1000 Gallon Underground Propane Tank Fire: Millbrook: 5/17/10

[markmets415 524]

Millbrook responded to a 1000 gallon under ground propane tank fire on Monday evening May 17, 2010 and were assisted on the scene by Pleasant Valley, Wassaic and Sharon, Ct.

Story as reported by the Poughkeepsie Journal:

http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/article/20100519/NEWS05/5190323/1001/news/Propane-pipe-break-in-Millbrook-causes-fire

photos taken by CC-16

[Alpinerunner 61]

Nice!! What was the tactic? Just prevent a wildfire and protect any other exposures and let it burn out?

[Jason S 68]

Nice!! What was the tactic? Just prevent a wildfire and protect any other exposures and let it burn out?

Yes. Millbrook went defensive as there was no real exposure problem. Crews from Millbrook remained on scene over the night to monitor the fire.

[Remember585 815]

Maybe it's the angle of the photo, but those guys in pictures 10 & 11 look WAY TOO CLOSE to that fire, just my humble opinion.

[markmets415 524]

Maybe it's the angle of the photo, but those guys in pictures 10 & 11 look WAY TOO CLOSE to that fire, just my humble opinion.

Chief I believe the angle of the photo makes it appear like they are within a few feet of the flames. I was not on the scene but from what I was told and it is supported by the picture #6 (right after the pictures of the apparatus). The two firefighters used a 10' pike pole with a protective handline in place to pull the damaged dome cover off the broken relief valve thus allowing the flame to be vertical and unimpeded, note the damaged dome cover in the foreground as well. All the other pictures show the flames horizontal and close the ground. There is no way with County Car 16 on the scene that he would have allowed this to happen if it could not have been done safely.

Note as well, the two firefighter as chance would have it just attended the propane class at the NYS Fire Academy three weeks ago, props to JHK Firefighter John Busa and Wassaic Captain Kenny Elliott.

[Atv300 69]

Chief I believe the angle of the photo makes it appear like they are within a few feet of the flames. I was not on the scene but from what I was told and it is supported by the picture #6 (right after the pictures of the apparatus). The two firefighters used a 10' pike pole with a protective handline in place to pull the damaged dome cover off the broken relief valve thus allowing the flame to be vertical and unimpeded, note the damaged dome cover in the foreground as well. All the other pictures show the flames horizontal and close the ground. There is no way with County Car 16 on the scene that he would have allowed this to happen if it could not have been done safely.

Note as well, the two firefighter as chance would have it just attended the propane class at the NYS Fire Academy three weeks ago, props to JHK Firefighter John Busa and Wassaic Captain Kenny Elliott.

.

Thanks mark. I see no love for the third guy there helping with the tatical plan. For the other guys question they were close but in reality it was the best course we saw at the time. The tank being under ground and if not for the dome lid that was keeping the flames on top of the tank there would be less heat transfe. But with everything know ur options before commiting man power to a risky task and know your man powers abilitys as mark said 5 of us went up to a propane emergency class within the last few months so we decided it would be best to get a better look at what we were dealing with before making a plan of action. But word of warning every situation is different make sure some is there to consult on the best course of action with the problem we even had a propane worker come in to help with our course of action.

Edited May 20, 2010 by markmets415

[Alpinerunner 61]

I see. Removing the dome was a good idea. Did you have a handline ready for the swingset? Did you perform a primary search of the swingset?

[markmets415 524]

.

Thanks mark. I see no love for the third guy there helping with the tatical plan. For the other guys question they were close but in reality it was the best course we saw at the time. The tank being under ground and if not for the dome lid that was keeping the flames on top of the tank there would be less heat transfe. But with everything know ur options before commiting man power to a risky task and know your man powers abilitys as mark said 5 of us went up to a propane emergency class within the last few months so we decided it would be best to get a better look at what we were dealing with before making a plan of action. But word of warning every situation is different make sure some is there to consult on the best course of action with the problem we even had a propane worker come in to help with our course of action.

Sorry Ryan I didn't realize you were there, my bad, so props to you as well.

[Atv300 69]

I see. Removing the dome was a good idea. Did you have a handline ready for the swingset? Did you perform a primary search of the swingset?

U have a problem with the decion that's fine. Being smart about shows me I would trust your judgment.

[Atv300 69]

Sorry Ryan I didn't realize you were there, my bad, so props to you as well.

No prob mark I was just busting on you.

[50-65 205]

Just curious, but it was the relief valve that was broken off? Since these are under the dome, which is usually above grade, how did the backhoe operator manage to hit that?

[Atv300 69]

Just curious, but it was the relief valve that was broken off? Since these are under the dome, which is usually above grade, how did the backhoe operator manage to hit that?

After removing the dome to get a better look we found the relief valve looked intact so we realized it could have been craked or one of the other points on top of the tank head could have been the leak. The relief valves are one of the top causes of major leakes since people forget or over look the dome of an underground tank and run it over. It dose not take much to snap the valve off if u hit or crush the dome.

Edited May 20, 2010 by Atv300

[Alpinerunner 61]

U have a problem with the decion that's fine. Being smart about shows me I would trust your judgment.

Huh? I think you misread my post. I'm agreeing with you that getting the heat off the tank was a good idea.

My comments about the swingset were a joke.

[Atv300 69]

Huh? I think you misread my post. I'm agreeing with you that getting the heat off the tank was a good idea.

My comments about the swingset were a joke.

Sory it seemed like you making a joke of it.

[x129K 1,393]

Sory it seemed like you making a joke of it.

T.O.F.B.???????

Taylor Oil Fire Brigade! LOL!

Wish they called us - I was ready to go!

[Atv300 69]

T.O.F.B.???????

Taylor Oil Fire Brigade! LOL!

Wish they called us - I was ready to go!

I know u guys could have brought some smore's stuff so we could have made it a real camp fire.

[50-65 205]

After removing the dome to get a better look we found the relief valve looked intact so we realized it could have been craked or one of the other points on top of the tank head could have been the leak. The relief valves are one of the top causes of major leakes since people forget or over look the dome of an underground tank and run it over. It dose not take much to snap the valve off if u hit or crush the dome.

Ok. thanks. Were you able to get close enough to turn off the tank at the valve? I've seen videos from various propane schools where they show this but didn't know if this was possible in this case.

I think there is a school coming up soon in Orange County that hopefully I can attend.

[WAS967 97]

How many gallons does a typical residence have for propane storage. I have a 225 (I think) gallon oil tank in my basement (I know it's apples and oranges but it's still volume) and 1000 gallon seems HUGE in comparison.

[50-65 205]

How many gallons does a typical residence have for propane storage. I have a 225 (I think) gallon oil tank in my basement (I know it's apples and oranges but it's still volume) and 1000 gallon seems HUGE in comparison.

The most common basement oil tank is 275 gallons. There are also alot of 330's out there, especially in newer, larger homes.

Propane, if used for everything, (heat, hot water, cooking, and sometimes clothes dryers) will vary from multiple 420# cylinders which hold 100 gallons to the 1000g tank for residential use. An above ground tank will typically be filled to 80%, underground tanks can be filled to 90%.

I guess the determining factors would be what you are using it for and the layout of the property. Cylinders can go alongside a building (with certain restrictions) while horizontal tanks usually have to be at least 10' away.

I do know of a manufactered home community in Orange County that has a 30,000 gallon propane tank.

[Beekman 5]

Several of the new homes I've inspected in the past six months have buried 1000 gallon propane tanks as well as, get this, two furnaces. The second furnace is hidden in the attic. It's the latest fad in home building.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Did you perform a primary search of the swingset?

Good point, there was also very poor apparatus placement by the chauffeur of the lawn tractor...

Seriously though, great job to the Millbrook boys. Just goes to show you we don't always need to go offensive! With situations like this its much safer to let it burn as opposed to go hard chargin' in and try to put it out, in this case that probably would have made the situation worse. Hats off to the IC and his advisory team, making the right decisions keeps everyone safe.

[TRUCK6018 50]

Ok. thanks. Were you able to get close enough to turn off the tank at the valve? I've seen videos from various propane schools where they show this but didn't know if this was possible in this case.

I think there is a school coming up soon in Orange County that hopefully I can attend.

The valve that could be turned off on most propane tanks is the service valve. This is what the gas line is hooked up to. On the underground tanks the service valve is part of the "multi valve" which comprises of the service valve, fill valve, vapor return valve and relief valve. Although I was not at this fire I (from experience) can assure you that it was more then just the service valve that was compromised.

In situations with underground tanks it is usually the relief valve that is compromised. The relief valve is made out of brass so breaking it off the rest of the valve assembly takes relatively little effort. Once ignited, the best course of action is to baby sit it and let it burn off.

[Alpinerunner 61]

For sure let it burn. It's pretty basic stuff, but for the newer guys: When it's burning you know where the gas is and you know that it is being "destroyed". If you put it out you have a gas that's heavier than air (propane) spreading around and could be ignited by anything.

[MoFire390 118]

Nice photos...sounds like u guys had ur work cut out for u...but just a quick question where are the hot dogs and burgers? Would of made for one hell of a cook out.

[Atv300 69]

Yes some tanks if its the service line that was the problem can be shut off with the proper hose coverage. But word of warning you need to have the right condition to do this *in class they talked about above ground tanks failing in 20 min or less so evacuation might be a better couse if fire has been burning for a long time. For the question about the propane vs oil gal wise. One thing to remember for every gal of liquid propane the vapor expands 270 times so do the math 1 gal liquid = like 270 gal of vapor.