Greenburgh Town Supervisor Seeks To Eliminate PD/FD Arbitration Panels

[x635 4,066]

I am reading this thinking what kind of state of mind someone has to be in to think this? Does this person actually know that unions and contracts exist because of thoughts like this, and they are actually stripping away all the years of progress and fighting for fair working conditions and wages?

Also, does this person realize the UFA and PBA members differ from the Teamsters and CSEA in the Town because they GIVE THEIR LIVES 24/7/365 to keep the town residents safe? And these same members can't even afford to live in the town even though they do get fairly compensated? AND, the arbitration panels are there because these members have no other recourse, as he mentioned, because they can't go on strike like other town employees can because then lives would be on the line in a serious way.....it's like beating someone with their hands tied behind their back to try and disband arbitration panels for those with no-strike clauses due to life safety issues.

This is not "needed reform", especially in this day and age where every government leader is trying to blame the unions for problems THEY created. All of a sudden, it's a problem. Isn't it THEIR role to plan for future and anticpated costs with different scenarios?

From the Town Of Greenburgh email list.....

http://www.greenburghny.com/Cit-e-Access/news/index.cfm?NID=18621&TID=10&jump2=0

LOCAL GOVERNMENTS WOULD BE ABLE TO REDUCE COSTS OF RUNNING GOV IF ARBITRATION PANELS ARE ELIMINATED

Release Date: May 17, 2010

I have sent letters to County Executive Rob Astorino, all the members of the Westchester delegation to the NYS State Legislature, members of the business community and Town Supervisors/Mayors in Westchester urging them to support a proposal to eliminate arbitration panels.

The county, local governments and fire districts have NO CONTROL over salaries of police and fire fighters. We can negotiate salary agreements. However, if the unions are not pleased with what we are offering our employees –they have the ability to go before an arbitration panel which dictates the salary hikes. As a result of this state law salary increases for emergency service personnel usually exceed inflation. Paul Feiner

In recent months many Westchester residents have complained about high property taxes. The New York State Legislature could and should respond to the call for reform by amending the state law that prevents local governments, fire districts and the county of Westchester from unilaterally deciding on the salaries of police and fire fighters. There is a need for an amendment to the Taylor law so that the salaries of police & firefighters are not determined by arbitration panels. In my opinion, the salaries should be decided by local elected officials who are responsible for the approval of a budget. How can you expect local elected officials to control budgets when we don't have any control over the setting of salaries of a large number of our employees?

The Police & firefighters benefit from larger salary increases than many localities can afford because of a labor law (Taylor Law). This law was approved to prevent police and emergency services from striking. In lieu of not being able to strike, the police & fire fighters are able to go to an arbitration panel if they can't reach a collective bargaining settlement. The arbitration is run by a panel that has given very favorable contracts to the PBA & firefighters union over the years because the PBA & firefighter unions has a voice along with local governments in the selection of the panels.

The reason why salaries of police and firefighters are so high is because the way the arbitration panel comes to a decision is based on comparing like areas. Even in these economic difficult times when so many people are out of work, arbitration panels are awarding salary increases of over 4% a year.

Elected officials have to make difficult choices--do we settle contracts and award increases greater than what we would give other employees but less than what arbitration panels have awarded other localities to avoid arbitration panel determinations OR do we reject contracts --only to see an arbitration award made that is even higher than that we think we could afford? If we don't settle we are taking a big risk. If we do settle we may be granting increases that we normally would not grant, if there was no arbitration panel in place?

Another negative to the arbitration concept-- if members of the PBA or firefighters union receive a large increase, members of the Teamsters and CSEA (which are not subjected to arbitration procedures) have a stronger case that they, too, should be entitled to larger salary adjustments? How can local governments justify giving some employees a 4% increase and others a zero or one percent increase? The CSEA and Teamsters use the arbitration awards to push for salary increases for themselves.

If our state lawmakers want to help local governments cut back on spending and if they would like to see property taxes come under control - the elimination of arbitration would be an important step.

Taxpayers who are concerned about the high cost of government should reach out to all candidates for state-wide office and our State Legislators and ask them to support this needed reform.

Sincerely,

PAUL FEINER

Greenburgh Town Supervisor

[efdcapt115 1,511]

County Westchester

Total tax levies collected $4,115,300,661

School districts

School district tax levy amount $2,588,615,559

Percent to school district 63%

County

Percent to county 17%

County tax levy amount $680,439,694

Cities

City tax levy amount $237,278,270

Percent to city 6%

Towns

Town tax levy amount $226,894,889

Percent to towns 6%

Villages

Village tax levy amount $259,994,250

Percent to villages 6%

Special districts

Fire tax levy amount $78,206,488

Percent to fire districts 2%

Special districts levy amount $43,871,511

Percent to special districts 1%

Yep. Four Billion dollars in taxes collected in Westchester. And who is this guy trying to attack? You mean those firefighters working in the fire districts that collected a WHOLE 2 PERCENT of the total tax levy? Or blame the cops?

Are you freaking kidding me or what?

http://www.lohud.com/article/99999999/DATABASE/100507014/-1

[Goose 188]

i'm pretty sure the civilian medics at GPD are represented by the CSEA...

[wraftery 1,275]

NOBODY has ever walked out of arbitration happy. That's the whole point...the arbitrator usually takes both agruements and meets in the middle. Have you met Feiner? One time he tried to close the Tappan Zee Bridge on Sundays and use it for bicycles and joggers.

[abaduck 123]

It seems to me that, if they tear up the arbitration panels, they tear up the no-strike deal too; they can't have it both ways. Fair binding arbitration is what you have to have for a no-strike deal to be possible. Firefighters in the UK can and do strike for this very reason - when they strike, the army is called in to provide cover for serious incidents.

[dc2t 80]

Feiner is an attention grabber. Just one more loose screw in the local govt. tool bag.

[jack10562 414]

Just one more loose tool in the local govt. screw bag.

There, fixed it for ya.

[27east 19]

I am reading this thinking what kind of state of mind someone has to be in to think this? Does this person actually know that unions and contracts exist because of thoughts like this, and they are actually stripping away all the years of progress and fighting for fair working conditions and wages?

Also, does this person realize the UFA and PBA members differ from the Teamsters and CSEA in the Town because they GIVE THEIR LIVES 24/7/365 to keep the town residents safe? And these same members can't even afford to live in the town even though they do get fairly compensated? AND, the arbitration panels are there because these members have no other recourse, as he mentioned, because they can't go on strike like other town employees can because then lives would be on the line in a serious way.....it's like beating someone with their hands tied behind their back to try and disband arbitration panels for those with no-strike clauses due to life safety issues.

This is not "needed reform", especially in this day and age where every government leader is trying to blame the unions for problems THEY created. All of a sudden, it's a problem. Isn't it THEIR role to plan for future and anticpated costs with different scenarios?

From the Town Of Greenburgh email list.....

http://www.greenburghny.com/Cit-e-Access/news/index.cfm?NID=18621&TID=10&jump2=0

Seth,

You sound really suprised. This IS Paul Feiner that we're talking about. The majority of the fine voting citizens of Greenburgh keep electing him. Blame them.

[x635 4,066]

Seth,

You sound really suprised. This IS Paul Feiner that we're talking about. The majority of the fine voting citizens of Greenburgh keep electing him. Blame them.

That's only because there's been no strong contenders against him (Bill Pohlman was, RIP). I'm not suprised, as every municipality is looking to blame Fire and Police unions for their situations. This is not a Paul Feiner issue per say, just a growing movement to set back all the progress unions have made to benefit their members and give them a fair working enviroment.

I could throw the blame on the people that elected him, but since very few people vote, and when they do, it seems like you have to choose who is worse then the other. Additionally, blaming voters is not going to impact anything right now, and I hope to see the Greenburgh unions take a stand to this ridiculous proposal. This proposal has the potential to gain momentum in the economic climate, and if it does, it's basically union-busting.

[Mark Z 18]

It seems to me that, if they tear up the arbitration panels, they tear up the no-strike deal too; they can't have it both ways. Fair binding arbitration is what you have to have for a no-strike deal to be possible. Firefighters in the UK can and do strike for this very reason - when they strike, the army is called in to provide cover for serious incidents.

I am sure that Mr. Feiner does indeed want it both ways, I am quite sure if you asked him he would be shocked at the idea of having to give up the no strike clause in the contract.

[wraftery 1,275]

The no strike clause and severe penalty for striking (2 day's pay for every day on strike) is there to insure the public will be protected. WE cops and FF have to really believe a strike is necessary before taking that 2-day hit.

What's the penalty for city council reducing public protection by laying off cops and ff?

[helicopper 1,050]

Facts about the Taylor Law:

http://goer.state.ny.us/GOER_Information/Taylor_Law.cfm

[dadbo46 50]

Three words, Mr. Feiner: Collective Bargining Agreement.

[abaduck 123]

Facts about the Taylor Law:

http://goer.state.ny.../Taylor_Law.cfm

Ahhhh thanks far that. I live and learn. So both no-strike and binding arbitration are imposed by state law, not as a result of a negotiated contract - and Mr. Feiner is living in cloud cuckoo land (as we say in Scotland!)

[gamewell45 258]

What's the penalty for city council reducing public protection by laying off cops and ff?

Hopefully getting voted out of office.

[EXDC203 38]

Paul Feiner is a MORON...... you may qoute me on that!!

[OnTheWheel 43]

I agree and say get rid of arbitration, oh and the Taylor Law, ya can't have your cake and eat it too. Then when we're not happy with 0% raises for 4 years we can strike! Welcome to the wild wild west!

[gamewell45 258]

I agree and say get rid of arbitration, oh and the Taylor Law, ya can't have your cake and eat it too. Then when we're not happy with 0% raises for 4 years we can strike! Welcome to the wild wild west!

That sounds great at the beginning, but it wears thin really quick if you do strike. Speaking as one who endured a long strike some years ago (19 weeks to be exact) I witnessed union Brothers & Sisters having their cars repossessed, their houses foreclosed and bank accounts drained to nothing. And all while the company conducted business as usual (with the help of Scabs of course). Trust me, no one wins in a strike. You'll never make up the money you lose, pension credits lost and don't forget, unless the union can afford to pay it, there is the full cost of those nasty medical insurance premiums you'll have to absorb at the same time (sort of makes socialized medicine look attractive). The public isn't too sympathetic with unions these days and the municipalities know this. If they had to, they'd bring in replacement workers (Scabs) from companies like Rural Metro in a heartbeat. And if Rural Metro screwed things up (which they probably would), the municipality would blame the unions for walking off the job. It'd be a PR nightmare for for the union and could take years to repair. Oh, and to add insult to injury the municipality would have the right to permanently replace you.

You guys have got the best of both worlds with Binding Arbitration and no strike clause. There are those of us in the private sector that wish we had that. Never give up binding arbitration/no strike no matter how bad things seem. It can get a lot worse.

Edited May 22, 2010 by gamewell45

[EXDC203 38]

gamewell, yes it can get worse! I have worked for union & non-union jobs in my lifetime, these days its not about that. Its about keeping the job you have!! Union workers are getting laid off (WP) we cant stop it! Non-union workers are not working! We all need to bind together & help each other find work!!!

[OnTheWheel 43]

That sounds great at the beginning, but it wears thin really quick if you do strike. Speaking as one who endured a long strike some years ago (19 weeks to be exact) I witnessed union Brothers & Sisters having their cars repossessed, their houses foreclosed and bank accounts drained to nothing. And all while the company conducted business as usual (with the help of Scabs of course). Trust me, no one wins in a strike. You'll never make up the money you lose, pension credits lost and don't forget, unless the union can afford to pay it, there is the full cost of those nasty medical insurance premiums you'll have to absorb at the same time (sort of makes socialized medicine look attractive). The public isn't too sympathetic with unions these days and the municipalities know this. If they had to, they'd bring in replacement workers (Scabs) from companies like Rural Metro in a heartbeat. And if Rural Metro screwed things up (which they probably would), the municipality would blame the unions for walking off the job. It'd be a PR nightmare for for the union and could take years to repair. Oh, and to add insult to injury the municipality would have the right to permanently replace you.

You guys have got the best of both worlds with Binding Arbitration and no strike clause. There are those of us in the private sector that wish we had that. Never give up binding arbitration/no strike no matter how bad things seem. It can get a lot worse.

I was being sarcastic, I wouldn't give up arbitration. Is "Rural Metro" going to come Police the communties that are on strike? Or maybe Wakenhut can do it.

[wraftery 1,275]

Feiner usually blurts things out before having ANY facts. Unfortunately he keeps getting reelected. He also wants a Townn of Greegburgh Fire Dept. and pay less than surrounding communities. First, comparative contracts is a big part of the Taylor Law. Second, there is no provisioon in NY state law for a town FD. Greenburgh would have to become a city or a village for him to have power over FD's.

On the up side, he puts his hand over his heart when the Pledge of Allegiance is recited. This is better than the president (no caps on purpose) who stands there like a foreigner.

[gamewell45 258]

I was being sarcastic, I wouldn't give up arbitration. Is "Rural Metro" going to come Police the communities that are on strike? Or maybe Wakenhut can do it.

If it involves money for Rural Metro, you bet they'd do it in a heartbeat if there is a legal way to do it and Wackenhut, well they have no souls anyhow so it wouldn't surprise me if they'd try and make a move. However if a strike ever occurred the mayor/supervisor/grand poohbah might consider calling out the national guard depending on the size of the department. Or to make things easier, they'd simply permanently replace everyone and start over. It's been done before. Glad you were only being sarcastic.

Edited May 23, 2010 by gamewell45

[ex-commish 490]

Quote in Feiners letter:

"The reason why salaries of police and firefighters are so high is because the way the arbitration panel comes to a decision is based on comparing like areas. Even in these economic difficult times when so many people are out of work, arbitration panels are awarding salary increases of over 4% a year."

As a sitting member of a contract negoiating committee I do not recall reading any recent award given by an arbitrator that was over 4%. If anything 4% has been the highest with 3.5 % being the norm.

Edited May 24, 2010 by HFD219

[barbosa10 7]

Didn't Feiner want the Greenville career fire fighters to be school crossing guards in Edgemont?

[wraftery 1,275]

Didn't Feiner want the Greenville career fire fighters to be school crossing guards in Edgemont?

YES! He forgot that they might have to leave to go to a call.

[barbosa10 7]

Unbelievable... Feiner aka the Whiner, should do some research before making irrational decisions, i mean I am assuming thats what auxiliary police are there for.