This sounds familiar!

[dragonrescue 28]

I love the comment about the "kingdoms" in the 9th paragraph. It has a familiar ring to it.......

http://www.firehouse.com/topics/politics-and-law/control-nc-depts-erupts

[RescueKujo 130]

Sounds the same around here. The County of San Diego is attempting consolidation amongst the volunteer departments and a couple of small career departments into the start of a County Fire Authority. A few departments, with a board of directors, have expressed concern about control of "their department" after they merge in the authority. When they didn't get the answer they liked they pulled out of the consolidation. Sometimes you just have to wonder about the reasons behind some people's decisions...

[firefighter36 52]

Makes you wonder where people's priorities lie.... Remember, in NY each Fire District (Fire Districts Cover Towns and are separate governmental entities) has 5 commissioners, Chiefs, etc. Throw in Municipal (city & village) politicians, the current law, and the mess in Albany, and well, you get one hell of a mess and a system that gets to stay broken for lack of political support. Throw in a political organization that lobbies to lower training standards and raise service awards, and well, you get the point....

[gamewell45 258]

Makes you wonder where people's priorities lie.... Remember, in NY each Fire District (Fire Districts Cover Towns and are separate governmental entities) has 5 commissioners, Chiefs, etc. Throw in Municipal (city & village) politicians, the current law, and the mess in Albany, and well, you get one hell of a mess and a system that gets to stay broken for lack of political support. Throw in a political organization that lobbies to lower training standards and raise service awards, and well, you get the point....

Amazingly for some strange reason, the job still gets done.

[firefighter36 52]

Amazingly for some strange reason, the job still gets done.

You sure about that? I hear an awful lot of 2nd, 3rd, 4th dispatches, Calls turned over mutual aid because of lack of a response, etc. where I am, and I doubt staffing meets either NFPA 1710 or NFPA 1720 standards.

If the job is getting done, it sure as hell isn't getting done safely, or promptly as dispatch logs can probably show.

Anything that can increase available QUALIFIED and WELL-TRAINED staffing and an appropriate compliment of equipment to emergency scenes sounds worth looking at to me.....

[Bnechis 3,961]

Amazingly for some strange reason, the job still gets done.

Does it?

We pay more fore it.

We have poorer ratings than other areas...so we pay more for insurance

We need multiple depts to respond to a room & content fire

And as we get to see photes on EmtBravo, we still get the same roof burned off.

Does the job get done because of us or inspite of us.

[Guest Firediver]

The Fire will go out eventually no matter who responds/ does not respond, will it not? Might incur a lot of damage/loss but it will go out.

[Mark Z 18]

Consolidation is something that given overburdened towns and village budgets needs to happen in many places, I live in a town of five separate fire companies complete with chiefs and all. I don't see why there needs to be more than one fire/ems organization in each town and in most places a county authority would make more sense. I bet most of the complaints are nothing more than chiefs trying to preserve their little kingdom, history has shown us that it will take quite a bit of work and a rare leader to overcome this problem.

[wraftery 1,275]

Sounds the same around here. The County of San Diego is attempting consolidation amongst the volunteer departments and a couple of small career departments into the start of a County Fire Authority. A few departments, with a board of directors, have expressed concern about control of "their department" after they merge in the authority. When they didn't get the answer they liked they pulled out of the consolidation. Sometimes you just have to wonder about the reasons behind some people's decisions...

California...isn't that where they burn down entire cities on an annual basis and then build that up again with the same type of construction (Wood roofs, houses protruding from hills so the fire can get up underneath)as before the fire?

I try not to point fingers, be respectful, don't knock others. But Geez, can't you guys get a law passed to require fire spread redution measures?

[gamewell45 258]

Does it?

We pay more fore it.

We have poorer ratings than other areas...so we pay more for insurance

We need multiple depts to respond to a room & content fire

And as we get to see photes on EmtBravo, we still get the same roof burned off.

Does the job get done because of us or inspite of us.

Like it or not you'll still see houses with roofs burned off no matter how much staffing you have;

Like it or not you'll still see people perish in fires no matter how much staffing you have;

Like it or not you'll still have lawsuits filed no matter how much staffing you have;

Like it or not you'll still have fires no matter how much staffing you have;

Like it or not you will pay more for insurance and it'll only go up each year no matter what your ISO rating is or how much staffing you have;

Like it or not you'll pay more for fire protection with contract salary raises each year as they get an increase almost every year;

Like it or not you'll pay more for fire fighter benefits as the cost of medical insurance goes up each year;

Like it or not layoffs and reductions of services are going to continue until the recession is over;

Like it or not the public is going to have a great deal of input and/or choose what gets funded and what doesn't get funded whether we like it or not;

Like it or not you'll get the job done as best as you can given the resources you have;

Like it or not you'll do the possible; the impossible will just have to wait.

Edited May 18, 2010 by gamewell45

[99subi 121]

Amazingly for some strange reason, the job still gets done.

typical volly response......... keep turnin the cheek........

[gamewell45 258]

typical volly response......... keep turnin the cheek........

Glad to see you put some thought into your response my volunteer "brother".

[dragonrescue 28]

Glad to see you put some thought into your response my volunteer "brother".

That response doesn't need much thought! 99subi koodos to you for telling it like it is. It's a well known thought process with guys like yourself (gamewell45), for sticking your head in the sand. If you can just convince yourself to see the big picture, things would be more clear for you. The day of the dedicated, blue collar, working in town, volunteer firefighter is a thing of the past. I was one of those vollies and miss those days. It's time to move on my volunteer "brother".......

[antiquefirelt 994]

Like it or not you'll still see houses with roofs burned off no matter how much staffing you have;

Like it or not you'll still see people perish in fires no matter how much staffing you have;

Like it or not you'll still have lawsuits filed no matter how much staffing you have;

Like it or not you'll still have fires no matter how much staffing you have;

Like it or not you will pay more for insurance and it'll only go up each year no matter what your ISO rating is or how much staffing you have;

Like it or not you'll pay more for fire protection with contract salary raises each year as they get an increase almost every year;

Like it or not you'll pay more for fire fighter benefits as the cost of medical insurance goes up each year;

Like it or not layoffs and reductions of services are going to continue until the recession is over;

Like it or not the public is going to have a great deal of input and/or choose what gets funded and what doesn't get funded whether we like it or not;

Like it or not you'll get the job done as best as you can given the resources you have;

Like it or not you'll do the possible; the impossible will just have to wait.

Once you give up, all is lost. Maybe it's time to hang it up? Like it or not, better staffing of trained firefighters will save more lives and property. But I guess that isn't what it's really about eveywhere or to everyone now is it?

[wraftery 1,275]

Once you give up, all is lost. Maybe it's time to hang it up? Like it or not, better staffing of trained firefighters will save more lives and property. But I guess that isn't what it's really about eveywhere or to everyone now is it?

One can be a vol, be as knowledgeable and well trained as his career brother, have adequate staffing in his vol dept, but how many times can he leave his job and respond? Even if you only get three runs a week, how many bosses, no matter how civic minded they are, will let you leave work that often?

Something has to give to put food on the table.

[FireMedic049 597]

Like it or not you'll still see houses with roofs burned off no matter how much staffing you have;

Like it or not you'll still see people perish in fires no matter how much staffing you have;

Like it or not you'll still have lawsuits filed no matter how much staffing you have;

Like it or not you'll still have fires no matter how much staffing you have;

Like it or not you will pay more for insurance and it'll only go up each year no matter what your ISO rating is or how much staffing you have;

Like it or not you'll pay more for fire protection with contract salary raises each year as they get an increase almost every year;

Like it or not you'll pay more for fire fighter benefits as the cost of medical insurance goes up each year;

Like it or not layoffs and reductions of services are going to continue until the recession is over;

Like it or not the public is going to have a great deal of input and/or choose what gets funded and what doesn't get funded whether we like it or not;

Like it or not you'll get the job done as best as you can given the resources you have;

Like it or not you'll do the possible; the impossible will just have to wait.

While all of this may be true, it's still not much of an argument to maintain the status quo in many places.

[gamewell45 258]

Once you give up, all is lost. Maybe it's time to hang it up? Like it or not, better staffing of trained firefighters will save more lives and property. But I guess that isn't what it's really about eveywhere or to everyone now is it?

I don't think that anyone has given up (read the last two lines of my post you responded to); rather I think they are being realistic and not dreaming in some fantasy world. There are some in here who maintain that staffing would be the end-all of most, if not all of the problems facing fire departments; its not; one must be realistic. Obviously we are all for saving more lives and property (tho' I place more value on lives then property as I'm sure most do in here), but at what cost? At some point its not just economically feasible to shell out so much money in taxes that people begin to question is what we spend on fire and safety protection worth what they may never need to use? Whether we want to admit it or not, costs do rise every year; anyone who refuses to acknowledge this is living in a dream world.

I think if most of us in emergency services gave up, then we wouldn't come in here and offer opinions.

[dragonrescue 28]

I don't think that anyone has given up (read the last two lines of my post you responded to); rather I think they are being realistic and not dreaming in some fantasy world. There are some in here who maintain that staffing would be the end-all of most, if not all of the problems facing fire departments; its not; one must be realistic. Obviously we are all for saving more lives and property (tho' I place more value on lives then property as I'm sure most do in here), but at what cost? At some point its not just economically feasible to shell out so much money in taxes that people begin to question is what we spend on fire and safety protection worth what they may never need to use? Whether we want to admit it or not, costs do rise every year; anyone who refuses to acknowledge this is living in a dream world.

I think if most of us in emergency services gave up, then we wouldn't come in here and offer opinions.

WHAT!? This is what happens when we are not properly staffed!:

http://www.footyfd.com/view_video.php?viewkey=1a42470269d56260243a

West Warwick FD with major budget cuts riding with 2 man Engines & Trucks!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where do you come from? MARS? You really need to give it up!

[gamewell45 258]

While all of this may be true, it's still not much of an argument to maintain the status quo in many places.

FireMedic, I'm not looking to argue; just state the obvious. Each department is going to do what works best for it whether you or I are willing to acknowledge it or not. That's just the way it is unless the community in question demands changes and when it comes down to paying increased fire taxes, they are going to have their doubts, especially given today's economic climate.

As I mentioned to another poster in here, when it comes down to changing how you do things, you have to be as realistic as possible. Its common sense.

[antiquefirelt 994]

One can be a vol, be as knowledgeable and well trained as his career brother, have adequate staffing in his vol dept, but how many times can he leave his job and respond? Even if you only get three runs a week, how many bosses, no matter how civic minded they are, will let you leave work that often?

Something has to give to put food on the table.

I agree 100%, and my comment was directed specifically at the poster of the "Like it or not" scenarios. Whatever the system is vol. or career, it must put a greater number of adequately trained firefighters at the job sooner than the average out there today.

[antiquefirelt 994]

I don't think that anyone has given up (read the last two lines of my post you responded to); rather I think they are being realistic and not dreaming in some fantasy world. There are some in here who maintain that staffing would be the end-all of most, if not all of the problems facing fire departments; its not; one must be realistic. Obviously we are all for saving more lives and property (tho' I place more value on lives then property as I'm sure most do in here), but at what cost? At some point its not just economically feasible to shell out so much money in taxes that people begin to question is what we spend on fire and safety protection worth what they may never need to use? Whether we want to admit it or not, costs do rise every year; anyone who refuses to acknowledge this is living in a dream world.

I think if most of us in emergency services gave up, then we wouldn't come in here and offer opinions.

While we're being realistic, we must not lose sight of having higher goals and standards for ourselves. Many communities do what's easiest, not what's best for them. These means excuses of multiple tones, over-reliance on mutual aid (taxing other communities resources) and failing to properly train and equip their firefighters. A good part of the time, it's the FD leadership who has failed to fight for what was needed. When the new guy comes in and tells the community that they're all F'ed up and need to spend some money, they resent him/her and want the old Chief back. Cheaper is usually easier.

But to agree with you I'd say that many of us cannot do anymore than the taxpayers will allow, the real question is are you (your FD) being honest with the taxpayers, town councilors and your own personnel?

There's an excellent article in April's FE on staffing and how it relates to nearly every fireground death. I've said it before, I'm certain we can link staffing issues to most LODD's and injuries, very often directly.

[FireMedic049 597]

FireMedic, I'm not looking to argue; just state the obvious. Each department is going to do what works best for it whether you or I are willing to acknowledge it or not. That's just the way it is unless the community in question demands changes and when it comes down to paying increased fire taxes, they are going to have their doubts, especially given today's economic climate.

As I mentioned to another poster in here, when it comes down to changing how you do things, you have to be as realistic as possible. Its common sense.

I'm not looking to argue either, but the more accurate statement would be that each department is going to do what it feels like doing and what it thinks is the best for it. Regardless, what works best for the department may not exactly be what works best for the citizens and the community. Just look at the Stamford threads because I think you'd have a pretty hard time arguing that whatever is going on there is truly best for the citizens and the community.