Mansion Fire in North Stamford

[Alpinerunner 61]

Chimney fire rips through North Stamford home

Jeff Morganteen

Stamford Advocate

STAMFORD -- A chimney fire tore through the roof of a North Stamford mansion Monday night injuring three firefighters and destroying much of the house, authorities said.

Four departments and dozens of firefighters responded to the fire, which began around 8:50 p.m. at 68 Deep Valley Trail in a chimney but quickly spread to the attic of the 7,800 square-foot house.

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/local/article/Chimney-fire-rips-through-North-Stamford-home-482294.php

Edited May 11, 2010 by Alpinerunner

[Geppetto 31]

News 12 and others are reporting alot of controversy associated with this fire. The audio track has made it to the Stamford Advocate.

http://blog.stamfordadvocate.com/stamford411/2010/05/12/mill-spring-lane-2-0/

Edited May 12, 2010 by Geppetto

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

sounds like LRFC has some explaining to do...

[TR54 239]

This is serious. A full investigation is a must! Cancelling units to a reported fire when the FD is not on scene is reckless.

Listen to the radio transmissions. Excellent job by the dispatcher , guiding the Chief. The Dispatcher did his job correctly.

I'm sure there is a lot more to the story and history leading up to the alarm. Bottom line- the public must not be left to suffer.

[dragonrescue 28]

This is serious. A full investigation is a must! Cancelling units to a reported fire when the FD is not on scene is reckless.

Listen to the radio transmissions. Excellent job by the dispatcher , guiding the Chief. The Dispatcher did his job correctly.

I'm sure there is a lot more to the story and history leading up to the alarm. Bottom line- the public must not be left to suffer.

We were informed that there will be no investigation! It was also announced on News Channel 12. Hmmmmmmmmmm......................

[DR104 141]

so if LRFC don't have the manpower they send in the paid dept to take the calls? or was it just this call? (working fire)that they were sent

[Geppetto 31]

Controversy erupts after Stamford fire

Stamford Times

05/12/2010

By TOM EVANS

STAMFORD -- A fire that severely damaged a multi-million-dollar home in North Stamford on Monday night has again raised the questions of who can -- or should -- call the shots when it comes to those first critical minutes of fire response.

Monday's fire at 68 Deep Valley Trail, which destroyed the roof and gutted the second floor of the 8,000-square-foot home, showed the "fractured response system" across Stamford firefighting units, according to Brendan Keatley, president of Stamford Professional Firefighters Association, Local 786, the union representing the city's paid firefighters....

http://www.thestamfordtimes.com/story/486342

[Geppetto 31]

Firefighters battling each other

Wednesday, 12 May 2010

Annie Rourke

Stamford, Conn. (WTNH) -

Firefighters in Stamford aren't just battling flames, they're fighting each other....

http://www.wtnh.com/dpp/news/fairfield_cty/stamford-firefighters-drama

[bfxfd 8]

I dont think this should be a career vs volunteer argument but this works both ways. Career favor career and volunteer favor volunteer. Until we can break down the barriers between the two of us we will not be able to effectively protect the people who count on us. This incident underlines the dangers that can come about when we let petty disagreements infringe upon safe and responsable fire protection. At the end of the day we should all want the same things out of being firefighters those things being protecting life and property.

[mstrang1 213]

The Chief of LRFCo cancelled all units to a reported chimney fire before any units were on scene. Once he was on scene, almost 7 minutes later, he again, after being prompted, called for SFRD and TOR units to be called out. Some of those units had a good 10 minute, maybe longer, response time. In addition, LRFCo has no ladder company, and does not have, at least on the one engine that got in the driveway, a ladder taller than 24'. How was the Chief sure he had a ladder tall enough to reach the roof when he was not even on scene? By the time a truck company was called and on scene, it was blocked by 5 inch hose from reaching the scene.

BFXFD, this DOES have something to do with career vs volunteer. But not in the way that you think. This is about a volunteer department that will do anything to prevent losing any type of control over their kingdom at any cost. There is a history between LRFCo and city and union officials. Maybe someone who was on the job at that time will expand. The volunteer Chief expressly cancelled city units because he wanted to handle the call himself. By having the paid city units respond, he would be "ceding" to them. This is not about me wanting to get rid of volunteers in Stamford. In fact, SFRD Engines 8 and 9 were drilling with TOR Volunteers when this call came in. This is about a volunteer Chief resisting the idea that they cannot handle it all on their own. They needed HELP and lots of it, early, at this fire. It does not matter whether he called TOR, Pound Ridge or SFRD, he just needed more people faster. The Unions stance, and one that I very much agree with, is that the city units have a guaranteed response of personnel. The city ultimately had at least 3 engines, 1 truck, 1 rescue and 1 DC and Aide on scene. This response was delayed significantly by the Chiefs own hubris in the matter.

Rant over.

[bfxfd 8]

The Chief of LRFCo cancelled all units to a reported chimney fire before any units were on scene. Once he was on scene, almost 7 minutes later, he again, after being prompted, called for SFRD and TOR units to be called out. Some of those units had a good 10 minute, maybe longer, response time. In addition, LRFCo has no ladder company, and does not have, at least on the one engine that got in the driveway, a ladder taller than 24'. How was the Chief sure he had a ladder tall enough to reach the roof when he was not even on scene? By the time a truck company was called and on scene, it was blocked by 5 inch hose from reaching the scene.

BFXFD, this DOES have something to do with career vs volunteer. But not in the way that you think. This is about a volunteer department that will do anything to prevent losing any type of control over their kingdom at any cost. There is a history between LRFCo and city and union officials. Maybe someone who was on the job at that time will expand. The volunteer Chief expressly cancelled city units because he wanted to handle the call himself. By having the paid city units respond, he would be "ceding" to them. This is not about me wanting to get rid of volunteers in Stamford. In fact, SFRD Engines 8 and 9 were drilling with TOR Volunteers when this call came in. This is about a volunteer Chief resisting the idea that they cannot handle it all on their own. They needed HELP and lots of it, early, at this fire. It does not matter whether he called TOR, Pound Ridge or SFRD, he just needed more people faster. The Unions stance, and one that I very much agree with, is that the city units have a guaranteed response of personnel. The city ultimately had at least 3 engines, 1 truck, 1 rescue and 1 DC and Aide on scene. This response was delayed significantly by the Chiefs own hubris in the matter.

Rant over.

I agree with most of what you say what the LRFCo Chief did arrogant and dangerous. In my opinion until a qualified fire officer (career or volunteer) is on scene and has completed a thorough size up, all manpower available and appropriate for the call should be responding, we should all be so lucky to have the manpower. But what I was trying to say was that this is a two way street I am not overly familiar with Stamford but i do know that in other areas with career and volunteer departments the departments tend to favor their side.

[mstrang1 213]

bfxfd-

One time when you have a day or three read the "update on stamford merger" thread. It is currently 31 pages long. That is, I am pretty sure, the longest thread ever on emtbravo. It is also only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to fire protection in the city of stamford.

[Guest]

How embarrassing, reckless, and incompetent... I hope the citizens up there have good homeowner's insurance....

[SageVigiles 1,194]

This is an absolute embarrassment to ALL of us firefighters. Something needs to be done about Stamford and it needs to be done NOW.

[x242Steve 1]

This is an absolute embarrassment to ALL of us volunteer firefighters in Connecticut. Something needs to be done about Stamford and it needs to be done NOW.

You're on the right track, but If I may, I am gonna edit what you said to fit the bigger picture...

This is an absolute embarrassment to ALL of us volunteer firefighters in Connecticut.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

You're on the right track, but If I may, I am gonna edit what you said to fit the bigger picture...

I accept Steve's friendly amendment to the motion. Its just that Stamford has been one of the shining stars of political dysfunction in the fire service, not counting the guys with consent decrees or other discrimination areas. Anyone catch the speech by Lieutenant Frank Ricci (NHFD) at FDIC? Politics over Merit is the fourth horseman of the fire service...

[Geppetto 31]

Stamford lawmakers to review North Stamford fire response

Jeff Morganteen, Stamford Advocate

May 12, 2010

STAMFORD -- City officials will review the response to a fire that tore through a large home in North Stamford this week, leaving questions about a Long Ridge Fire Co. assistant chief's decision to cancel automatic aid before he arrived....

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/default/article/Stamford-lawmakers-to-review-North-Stamford-fire-484707.php

[Alpinerunner 61]

I think what's gone on here is pretty cut and dry. I can't say I'm for a hearing/investigation because I don't know what it would yield. It's 100% clear that the officer made the wrong call, it's 100% clear that it's because of hubris and not wanted to work with the city engines if he didn't think he had do. The question is what will be done? Will there be discipline? Will the restructuring of Stamford's fire service take care of the problem? Can it simply be taken as lesson learned? The officer is an Asst. Chief and wouldn't be in this position if he were a repeat offender.

[rickperry99 8]

Is someone going to have to die before anything is done about this? What if there were people hanging out of the windows or trapped inside when they arrived? This guy is a clown and should be removed from his position. I live in North Stamford and I most certainly don't feel safe with these guys "protecting" me. They should just be disbanded. A city the size of Stamford should have a fully staffed professional career department.

[CTFF 65]

Is someone going to have to die before anything is done about this? What if there were people hanging out of the windows or trapped inside when they arrived? This guy is a clown and should be removed from his position. I live in North Stamford and I most certainly don't feel safe with these guys "protecting" me. They should just be disbanded. A city the size of Stamford should have a fully staffed professional career department.

Rick talk to your reps on the board of reps & the mayors office. Talk to your neighbors explain the situation to them and have them call their reps & the mayors office. Until the people of Stamford start making noise I doubt you'll see this mayor do a thing about it.

[Alpinerunner 61]

I'm sure that whatever the mayor does with the task force recommendations will result in much more manpower up north.

[Ladder44 73]

I'm sure that whatever the mayor does with the task force recommendations will result in much more manpower up north.

But this will cost money and isn't Stamford on a hiring freeze???

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

But this will cost money and isn't Stamford on a hiring freeze???

I think the greater point out there is that there is man power out there willing and able to assist but is not being utilized due to politics. Throwing money at this issue will not solve it, reorganization, restructuring and accountability should be the new name of the game in Stamford.

[nfd2004 750]

We were informed that there will be no investigation! It was also announced on News Channel 12. Hmmmmmmmmmm......................

"No investigation". Maybe not by the City of Stamford, as they try to sweep this under the carpet. But I'd sure like to be an Attorney representing the homeowner. Everything lost, photos, jewerly, memories. I would guess that the homeowner and lawyer would certainly be able to put a few extra dollars in their pocket after a court case like this. Seems to me, the City of Stamford, and the chief involved could become a little short on cash soon.

I retired from a career dept where similiar situtations took place, not Once, but several times. As a Career firefighter, I could watch buildings burn down while I sat one or two miles away. They would call for help from OUT OF TOWN MUTUAL AID, before calling us. Nothing was ever done as these buildings would burn, and the on duty career firefighters watched from the firehouse. I'm referring to Norwich, Ct.

And somebody made a very good point. What if people were trapped in the building. My friends, all kidding aside, "its all about egos". I hope the guy looses his shirt. He sure would if it was MY HOUSE.

[bfxfd 8]

"No investigation". Maybe not by the City of Stamford, as they try to sweep this under the carpet. But I'd sure like to be an Attorney representing the homeowner. Everything lost, photos, jewerly, memories. I would guess that the homeowner and lawyer would certainly be able to put a few extra dollars in their pocket after a court case like this. Seems to me, the City of Stamford, and the chief involved could become a little short on cash soon.

I retired from a career dept where similiar situtations took place, not Once, but several times. As a Career firefighter, I could watch buildings burn down while I sat one or two miles away. They would call for help from OUT OF TOWN MUTUAL AID, before calling us. Nothing was ever done as these buildings would burn, and the on duty career firefighters watched from the firehouse. I'm referring to Norwich, Ct.

And somebody made a very good point. What if people were trapped in the building. My friends, all kidding aside, "its all about egos". I hope the guy looses his shirt. He sure would if it was MY HOUSE.

This situation happens for both volunteer and career. There have been incidents where career departements call in mutual aid from across the county (westchester) before even thinking about calling in volunteers 2 minutes away. Until we can settle the differences that divide us we will not be able to provide safe and effective fire prevention.

[gamewell45 258]

Is someone going to have to die before anything is done about this? What if there were people hanging out of the windows or trapped inside when they arrived? This guy is a clown and should be removed from his position. I live in North Stamford and I most certainly don't feel safe with these guys "protecting" me. They should just be disbanded. A city the size of Stamford should have a fully staffed professional career department.

As a friendly suggestion, If you feel that your not "safe" with "these guys" protecting you, then why do you continue to live there? Move to a place where you can feel that you have protection you are comfortable with. That's what i'd do if I felt as you appear to feel.

While I'm sure that everyone who lives in Stamford would love to have a fully paid department, it all comes down to finding money to pay these fine gentlemen for their services, which means more tax dollars from those who either cannot afford to pay increased taxes or resent having the government dipping into their wallets yet again. Given the current state of the economy, this isn't feasible at this time.

Edited May 13, 2010 by gamewell45

[Goose 188]

As a friendly suggestion, If you feel that your not "safe" with "these guys" protecting you, then why do you continue to live there? Move to a place where you can feel that you have protection you feel comfortable with. That's what i'd do if I felt as you appear to feel.

While I'm sure that everyone who lives in Stamford would love to have a fully paid department, it all comes down to finding money to pay these fine gentlemen for their services, which means more tax dollars from those whoeither cannot afford to pay increased taxes or resent having the government dipping into their wallets yet again. Given the current state of the economy, this isn't feasible at this time.

Shut down the volunteers and take whatever the city gives them monetarily and put it back into SFRD to fill out companies outside the city proper.

[gamewell45 258]

Shut down the volunteers and take whatever the city gives them monetarily and put it back into SFRD to fill out companies outside the city proper.

Goose, thats great, suppose the city gives them zero? how do you expect SFRD to fill out companies outside the city proper? Remember Stamford is crying poverty and your not going to get any sympathy from the taxpayers, many of whom are already overextended in paying taxes. Whats Stamford supposed to do? pay these guys in corn? Your suggestion appears to be nothing more then a knee-jerk reaction with little or no thought given towards being realistic.

Edited May 13, 2010 by gamewell45

[AJU 39]

Resources are resources. This Chief turned away both vollies and pros (resources he ultimately needed but didn't wait to size-up the situation before making the call). It was clearly very poor judgment. We know this. And he's accountable for it and I can't imagine he won't be held responsible for it.

What we don't really know are any of the whys behind this call being made. Could it have had its roots in the volly/pro struggle? Maybe. But because we don't know we are making assumptions. We're projecting our opinions onto the story and calling it fact. I have to ask the question that's been asked many times before and that is what's the sense in us continuing to lay this hotly debated issue over everything that happens out there? Can't this story (and most others) be used to drive home points that have much more value to everyone in the fire service? Here are a few that come to mind:

The importance of:

Size up

Resource management

Apparatus placement

Access to the scene

Knowing your first due

[gamewell45 258]

Resources are resources. This Chief turned away both vollies and pros (resources he ultimately needed but didn't wait to size-up the situation before making the call). It was clearly very poor judgment. We know this. And he's accountable for it and I can't imagine he won't be held responsible for it.

What we don't really know are any of the whys behind this call being made. Could it have had its roots in the volly/pro struggle? Maybe. But because we don't know we are making assumptions. We're projecting our opinions onto the story and calling it fact. I have to ask the question that's been asked many times before and that is what's the sense in us continuing to lay this hotly debated issue over everything that happens out there? Can't this story (and most others) be used to drive home points that have much more value to everyone in the fire service? Here are a few that come to mind:

The importance of:

Size up

Resource management

Apparatus placement

Access to the scene

Knowing your first due

I would tend to agree with you. There's probably more to this then what we here at emtbravo.net are aware of. Let whatever investigation take place, if any, and then when we know all the facts, then we can pontificate about this all we want.