Kiryas Joel FD awarded a 2009 AFG grant ?

[aviator70 16]

Just to set the record straight before I get bashed, I am not saying anything bad about them. I just see a few issues with how they do things. On another note, Orange County just spent millions on a Emergency Ops Center, I see no reason why a village with 22,000 residents needs to have a Emergency Ops Center, paid for by tax payer money, Sorry, that is pure pork!

[valff 0]

Man I gotta say, that is one hodgepodge fleet of apparatus, no wonder they're getting a quarter-million for a new rig. I couldn't help but notice how poorly equiped each rig also appears to be; the compartment photos remind me of my old department in the years before we started getting serious about putting the right equipment on board.

I agree about the hose beds, and it appears they are not carrying enough hose to comply with standards.

Anybody notice the sticker in the window of E595? Looks like an old IAFF sticker?

At any rate, Gillibrand is gettting/or got them a million for their EOC. Just remember with politicians, $$ to the constituency equals votes. I think they call it "pork", but definately NOT in this case.

And if any of the KJ members read this thread, if it is true as Alpine has said that you guys are showing up miles outside of your jurisdiction to "help out", in the fire service we call it FREELANCING. It is extremely dangerous, no matter how well intentioned you might be, and it should stop.

Best of luck with your new fire truck.

PS: I love the free-standing water cooler in the back of the rescue. Great place to gather around after a job and shoot the proverbial. Gives the job a white-collar kinda feel no?

well KJ EMS and KJ FIRE DEPARTMENT are 2 different companies no one has seen KJ FIRE DEPARTMENT on any MVA miles away

[efdcapt115 1,511]

well KJ EMS and KJ FIRE DEPARTMENT are 2 different companies no one has seen KJ FIRE DEPARTMENT on any MVA miles away

Thanks for the clarification.

Edit: I still LOVE the water cooler in the back of the Rescue.

Edited May 14, 2010 by efdcapt115

[EXDC203 38]

Where do we start? For years people in the fire/ems community have had concerns over Kirys Joel & Hatzola. Aparently they are free to do whatever they want! NY State, OSHA, Board of Health, are all afraid to do anything because they are a religious organization! They run around with red lights & sirens in all kinds of POV's with no respect for any other traffic on the road. As far as "freelancing" on ems calls, they dont...... every member of their community has their number on speed dial, they call them if they are sick or in an accident wherever they are!

[efdcapt115 1,511]

This has become quite an interesting topic, so I decided to get a little edumucated about KJ;

Area

- Total 1.1 sq mi (2.8 km2)

- Land 1.1 sq mi (2.8 km2)

- Water 0.0 sq mi (0.0 km2)

Elevation 842 ft (257 m)

Population (2006)

- Total 20,071

- Density 18,246.4/sq mi (7,168.2/km2)

So, as of 2006, KJ had 20,071 people crammed into 1.1 square miles. To me, that is incredible.

Only 5.4% of housing units in Kiryas Joel are single, detached houses,[6], a lower percentage than the Bronx (where 5.8% of housing units are single detached houses).

According to 2008 census figures, the village has the highest poverty rate in the nation. More than two-thirds of residents live below the federal poverty line and 40% receive food stamps.

The unusual lifestyle and growth pattern of Kiryas Joel has led to litigation on a number of fronts. In 1994, the Supreme Court ruled in the case of Board of Education of Kiryas Joel Village School District v. Grumet that the Kiryas Joel school district, which covered only the village, was designed in violation of the Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment, because the design accommodated one group on the basis of religious affiliation. 512 U.S. 687 (1994). Subsequently, the New York State Legislature established a similar school district in the town that has passed legal muster.[9] Further litigation has resulted over what entity should pay for the education of children with disabilities in Kiryas Joel, and over whether the community's boys must ride buses driven by women.

I could go on and on with the quotes from the article sited. It is understood that our nation is founded upon the principle of seperation of church and state, or government. With regard to fire services, it is also understood (to me at least) that this is a function of government; NOT church.

So here's where the lines become blurry, as the cultural aspects of KJ come into conflict with the established norms of delivery of emergency services. Look, they went to court because they didn't want their boys riding a bus with a woman driving it. Can you imagine the reaction if a KJ resident is involved in a PIAA and the responding EMS unit shows up with two women; maybe one of which has a facial piercing or a tatoo?

IMO, big time conflicting issues will be ongoing with KJ and the surrounding communities, maybe forever. A few of the posters here have said that KJFD has been helpful, others have said they are wrecklessly responding outside their jurisdiction because according to their cultural values, they do not want other types of people other than their own, handling potential victims of emergencies.

The only solution I see would be big time open lines of communication, and established protocols for when a KJ resident is in need of fire or ems services beyond their 1.1 square miles. The protocol KJ has apparently established for itself is that speed-dial to their own people in an emergency. That, to me is absolutely not the real solution, and a recipe for potential disaster at some point.

Since it is apparent that they seek isolation from the "outside" world, when they are within that "outside" world, beyond their 1.1 square miles of crushing population, their obligation should be to CONFORM to their surrounding communities' protocols. Eventually, this will be another court issue I imagine.

To me, ASSIMILATION is also a part of AMERICAN culture. To not want to assimilate, due to religious reasons is THE reason these problems with emergency services exist up in that neck of the woods. How to solve it?

Well, we certainly want religious tolerance, another tenant of our cultural foundation. But KJ residents should also understand, that they have an obligation to AMERICA, as well as their god. If they are unmovable nor open to any type of negotiation and compromise, it is not "being helpful" as some here have stated.

I have to say, I wouldn't want to be up there trying to figure this whole thing out. Problems, problems. But then again, this is the USA, and problems are the least of out worries. Is that an oxymoron or a Yogi'ism?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiryas_Joel,_New_York

[helicopper 1,050]

This has become quite an interesting topic, so I decided to get a little edumucated about KJ;

So, as of 2006, KJ had 20,071 people crammed into 1.1 square miles. To me, that is incredible.

Want to talk about crazy population densities? The City of Mount Vernon has 68,381 people jammed into 2.7 square miles (the city is 4.4 square miles but according to census data 1.7 of that is water and I've never seen any houseboats )

But I digress. There is no valid reason for a 1.1 square mile village to have a million dollar+ EOC. If they're confronted with a major emergency they'll be receiving mutual aid from outside the village, the County will help them and they have a state-of-the-art EOC, and why would you put the EOC within the "disaster" area? No matter where you put the EOC in a 1.1 square mile village, it's going to be too close to the scene.

Entirely too political and poorly thought out. I can think of much better ways to allocate 1.1 million federal dollars in NYS!