re: Manhattan- Attempted Car Bombing - 05-01-10

[M' Ave 1,466]

This is an issue that should be examined closely. This could very nearly have been a tremendous disaster. No one can tell exactly how many people would have been killed had this bomb functioned properly and the psychological ramifications would be extensive, bringing a fear that lurks in the back of our minds to the surface very violently. The police officer who responded to the vehicle was peering through the windows before realizing what was contained within. That's a little closer to a bomb than I can imagine most of us ever wanting to be. Supposedly did a great job at moving people away and bringing the necessary NYPD Bomb Squad and FDNY units.

As terrible a reality as it is, this is something that we, as emergency responders, need to be very aware of today. Furthermore, there has been some scuttle about the intended method of detonation and whether or not the smoke was intentional as a device to lure responders. If there is any validity to that theory, imagine the process. Device creates smoke, brings responders and then the primary device detonates. What a terrible event....

The reality is, there are very sick people who come up with intricate ways to kill lots of people and specific people. Be safe and cautious and try not to let ever present complacency effect your level of preparedness.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Absolutely, this is why all responders (Fire, Police, EMS) should be trained in the basic recognition of explosive devices and terrorist tactics, this was a very close call.

[helicopper 1,050]

This is an issue that should be examined closely. This could very nearly have been a tremendous disaster. No one can tell exactly how many people would have been killed had this bomb functioned properly and the psychological ramifications would be extensive, bringing a fear that lurks in the back of our minds to the surface very violently. The police officer who responded to the vehicle was peering through the windows before realizing what was contained within. That's a little closer to a bomb than I can imagine most of us ever wanting to be. Supposedly did a great job at moving people away and bringing the necessary NYPD Bomb Squad and FDNY units.

As terrible a reality as it is, this is something that we, as emergency responders, need to be very aware of today. Furthermore, there has been some scuttle about the intended method of detonation and whether or not the smoke was intentional as a device to lure responders. If there is any validity to that theory, imagine the process. Device creates smoke, brings responders and then the primary device detonates. What a terrible event....

The reality is, there are very sick people who come up with intricate ways to kill lots of people and specific people. Be safe and cautious and try not to let ever present complacency effect your level of preparedness.

You're absolutely right that there are too many ways to be killed in these lines of work and our enemies (whomever they may be) are trying to be more creative.

I just want to rebut part of your statement. The first arriving officer undoubtedly saved lives - not supposedly. Someone had to be the first (and hopefully last) person to see the suspicious device up close and personally. Had the officer not been diligent by examining the vehicle it could have been the first arriving FD companies opening up a vehicle fire only to be met with exploding propane/gasoline/etc. Someone always has to be the first one through the door or the first one into harm's way and taking decisive action to mitigate the situation. In this case, it has a happy ending. Nobody was hurt, no property was damaged, and the psychological impact is minimal.

This should serve as a reminder to everyone not to be complacent and to give every call with your full attention!

[JAD622 40]

You're absolutely right that there are too many ways to be killed in these lines of work and our enemies (whomever they may be) are trying to be more creative.

I just want to rebut part of your statement. The first arriving officer undoubtedly saved lives - not supposedly. Someone had to be the first (and hopefully last) person to see the suspicious device up close and personally. Had the officer not been diligent by examining the vehicle it could have been the first arriving FD companies opening up a vehicle fire only to be met with exploding propane/gasoline/etc. Someone always has to be the first one through the door or the first one into harm's way and taking decisive action to mitigate the situation. In this case, it has a happy ending. Nobody was hurt, no property was damaged, and the psychological impact is minimal.

This should serve as a reminder to everyone not to be complacent and to give every call with your full attention!

Indeed the first arriving Officer should be commended for his heads up handling of what was surely a deadly situation. He absolutely is responsible for saving lives and setting into motion the necessary response to deal with the situation in time. I truly believe that events like this (and there have been others previously that have not made the media) are "Test Runs" to measure the response by first responders. I believe these are precursors to future attacks and we all need to be on our toes! Be very aware of our surroundings when responding to anything out of the ordinary. For the most part, I know most of us are aware of all this and I'm surely not saying anything new here. I just think that it's good to talk about it and keep the subject of safety in the forefront of everyone's mind. Keep a close watch on this situation as the facts come out and remember them. Discuss it at work over and over again and keep your senses up. Everyone needs to go home safe after every tour. Watch each others backs! Be Safe, everyone.

[M' Ave 1,466]

I just want to rebut part of your statement. The first arriving officer undoubtedly saved lives - not supposedly.

Oh, of course. I meant "supposed", as in, that's the word around the job and not first hand knowledge. Undoubtedly saved lives is right!

[Remember585 815]

Out of curiousity, what was the initial call to 911 for? Was it a car smoking, car fire, suspicious vehicle, etc?

I think most 911 answering points would never think that a car smoking would be something like this, and send a normal FD response for a car fire.

It's sad to think this, but we truly can not assume anything is routine anymore, with nut jobs like this out there. Sometimes it's better to rely upon your gut instinct over anything else. If something doesn't seem right, it probably isn't.

Step back, absorb the whole picture, then proceed with your action plan.

Great job NYPD & FDNY!

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Shout out to the NYPD Bomb-Squad. Couldn't help but to think of the movie "The Hurt Locker" as I looked at the photos of these members performing their duty. Well done!

[helicopper 1,050]

Out of curiousity, what was the initial call to 911 for? Was it a car smoking, car fire, suspicious vehicle, etc?

I think most 911 answering points would never think that a car smoking would be something like this, and send a normal FD response for a car fire.

It was a verbal to an officer detailed to Times Square for a suspicious vehicle or car fire (depends on which source you listen to). The officer looked into the vehicle saw IED components and banged the gong for a full response.

You're absolutely right about dispatch information. 911 calls reporting a "smoking car" might have gotten an FD response or a tow truck for a possible overheat!!! This is one BIG reason to improve the training and compensation for dispatchers (and in systems that have them, call-takers).

[antiquefirelt 994]

Not to take anything away from anyone involved, but there does seem to be differing stories on how this call was taken. There's at least one civilian who's stating he saw smoke coming from the vehicle and heard popping noises? Maybe he reported it to the officer who then took the appropriate actions to get units mobilized and civilians away.

Nonetheless, a great response by NYC's emergency forces and I dare say the follow-up is likely to be better than had this been nearly anywhere else.

[Oswegowind 17]

Guys, I think we got lucky on this one. This could have gone much much worse. Times Square is an international target, just as were the World Trade Center's Twin Towers. They are gone, terrorism is not. Times Square is the "crossroads of the universe"! If you have any doubt that this wasn't supposed to blow up and cause massive worldwide terror, you are completely ignorant. I am a firm believer that terrorists will not rest, and that they intend to destroy our way of life. I also believe that too many Americans have forgotten 9/11 or just don't believe it will ever happen again. I want each and everyone of you to carefully formulate your own opinions, but base those opinions on fact.

A bombing in Times Square would have international collateral damages. Not just Americans are the targets at that specific location. But also people who have traveled here because the "West" appeals to them. They didn't attack the New York Stock Exchange on September 11th, they attacked the WORLD Trade Center. They also attacked the Pentagon, the institution in charge of America's military, which is working with Country's all over the WORLD that have mutual interests with our Country. We saw bombings of buses in London, those bombings weren't just aimed at Londoners, but who uses buses when in London? Tourists that don't drive over seas, some of which may have been American. The English are our friends, they support us as we support them. Terrorists attack targets that not only terrorize you and I, but as many people who support our way of life or mirror it in some fashion.

I believe that not only the reporting person, Mr. Orton the Vietnam Veteran street vendor, but P.O. Wayne Rhatigan of the NYPD were instrumental in setting off the massive response and evacuation that insured public safety. Although, they may have become the first casualties had this device operated properly and not have been detected, I am glad that they are here today. From what I have read, and seen there was at least one clock in the auto that was set for midnight, did the smoke trigger a response that the terrorist(s) were not counting on? Was there a specific delay? This we will not know until the person(s) responsible are in custody and hopefully they speak. Kudos to the crews that responded from all agencies to the initial incident. Now what? I am confident that the FBI and the NYPD are more than capable of following leads and will hunt down the person(s) that tried to influence our world again.

Here are some links I have gathered so that you too can follow up on this incident as I am:

(MSN Video from NBC detailing bomb description)

From that link you can see other pertinent videos about the incident, including the interview with the original reporting person.

(Google search results for Times Square Bomb Threat)

Some points of fact that I have developed about this incident:

A. The vehicle was left running, with its "park anywhere" (hazard) lights flashing.

B. The Improvised Explosive Device located was conceived with an interesting detail. Reports are that there were 2 gas "cans" in the rear seat portion of the vehicle and 3 20lb gallon propane tanks (barbecue grill size) with fireworks (incendiaries) and supposed timers, one of which was set for 2400. It is reported that the propane tank valves were left in the closed position.

Now, my opinion:

A. The vehicle running and hazard lights flashing is an everyday occurrence. It was a distraction! It was saying, I'll be right back to move my car. They were betting on everyday people to keep moving and not notice because they are going from place to place. They were hoping patrols would just pass on by and not investigate further because it happens every single day. IF it were not for the smoke, this would have been completely different. How many times do we just walk by and say "a******" in our minds? If the vehicle was parked in a no parking zone, there was a chance it would have been moved by towing. But by leaving the motor running and the hazards flashing it may only have been ticketed! I believe this was done purposefully to make it look like nothing was actually wrong with it being there, other than some moron just parking there and putting on their flashers!

B. The IED was designed for 2 fashions. The gas cans were to explode causing a massived fire injuring many people and damaging property in the area as well as causing a major fire. The propane tanks in the off position tell me that they were not meant to explode immediately. I have seen other propane tank explosions demonstrations and incidents in videos. The valve as reported in one of the news feeds will resist heat, and they are saying that they may not have ignited immediately. I believe that this was done specifically and that this was actually 2 devices in one vehicle. The first would cause an explosion and fire, it would create havoc and panic, and it would also bring an influx of emergency personnel to the scene. IN MY OPINION: The propane tanks were intended to kill police, fire, and EMS personnel at the scene. The fire would have eventually broken the heat seals on the propane tank valves as is seen in other propane tank incidents such as Tacoma, Washington were a foundry blew up. They would have exploded when first responders had arrived to mitigate the incident. And if they didn't, maybe that is why there is a timer on for 2400, to explode while people are helping/investigating! Killing people is one thing, but killing those responding to help is another. Not only would it scare people that their life is in danger, but it would instill a fear that uniformed personnel are not immune. Just like 9/11, the biggest impact was seeing PD/FD/EMS units and personnel killed. Consistently we talk about the 343 or the 37 etc. Thousands of civilians were killed too. We are always talking about pulling out our military because we have lost uniformed soldiers. A person dies, it is one thing. When the person that is meant to protect us dies, it is another. There are psychological effects from both, but I believe that everyday people think it is much worse when those who are there to deal with the situation in their uniform die. It instills a deeper fear.

[JFLYNN 681]

Guys, I think we got lucky on this one. This could have gone much much worse. Times Square is an international target, just as were the World Trade Center's Twin Towers. They are gone, terrorism is not. Times Square is the "crossroads of the universe"! If you have any doubt that this wasn't supposed to blow up and cause massive worldwide terror, you are completely ignorant. I am a firm believer that terrorists will not rest, and that they intend to destroy our way of life. I also believe that too many Americans have forgotten 9/11 or just don't believe it will ever happen again. I want each and everyone of you to carefully formulate your own opinions, but base those opinions on fact.

A bombing in Times Square would have international collateral damages. Not just Americans are the targets at that specific location. But also people who have traveled here because the "West" appeals to them. They didn't attack the New York Stock Exchange on September 11th, they attacked the WORLD Trade Center. They also attacked the Pentagon, the institution in charge of America's military, which is working with Country's all over the WORLD that have mutual interests with our Country. We saw bombings of buses in London, those bombings weren't just aimed at Londoners, but who uses buses when in London? Tourists that don't drive over seas, some of which may have been American. The English are our friends, they support us as we support them. Terrorists attack targets that not only terrorize you and I, but as many people who support our way of life or mirror it in some fashion.

I believe that not only the reporting person, Mr. Orton the Vietnam Veteran street vendor, but P.O. Wayne Rhatigan of the NYPD were instrumental in setting off the massive response and evacuation that insured public safety. Although, they may have become the first casualties had this device operated properly and not have been detected, I am glad that they are here today. From what I have read, and seen there was at least one clock in the auto that was set for midnight, did the smoke trigger a response that the terrorist(s) were not counting on? Was there a specific delay? This we will not know until the person(s) responsible are in custody and hopefully they speak. Kudos to the crews that responded from all agencies to the initial incident. Now what? I am confident that the FBI and the NYPD are more than capable of following leads and will hunt down the person(s) that tried to influence our world again.

Here are some links I have gathered so that you too can follow up on this incident as I am:

(MSN Video from NBC detailing bomb description)

From that link you can see other pertinent videos about the incident, including the interview with the original reporting person.

(Google search results for Times Square Bomb Threat)

Some points of fact that I have developed about this incident:

A. The vehicle was left running, with its "park anywhere" (hazard) lights flashing.

B. The Improvised Explosive Device located was conceived with an interesting detail. Reports are that there were 2 gas "cans" in the rear seat portion of the vehicle and 3 20lb gallon propane tanks (barbecue grill size) with fireworks (incendiaries) and supposed timers, one of which was set for 2400. It is reported that the propane tank valves were left in the closed position.

Now, my opinion:

A. The vehicle running and hazard lights flashing is an everyday occurrence. It was a distraction! It was saying, I'll be right back to move my car. They were betting on everyday people to keep moving and not notice because they are going from place to place. They were hoping patrols would just pass on by and not investigate further because it happens every single day. IF it were not for the smoke, this would have been completely different. How many times do we just walk by and say "a******" in our minds? If the vehicle was parked in a no parking zone, there was a chance it would have been moved by towing. But by leaving the motor running and the hazards flashing it may only have been ticketed! I believe this was done purposefully to make it look like nothing was actually wrong with it being there, other than some moron just parking there and putting on their flashers!

B. The IED was designed for 2 fashions. The gas cans were to explode causing a massived fire injuring many people and damaging property in the area as well as causing a major fire. The propane tanks in the off position tell me that they were not meant to explode immediately. I have seen other propane tank explosions demonstrations and incidents in videos. The valve as reported in one of the news feeds will resist heat, and they are saying that they may not have ignited immediately. I believe that this was done specifically and that this was actually 2 devices in one vehicle. The first would cause an explosion and fire, it would create havoc and panic, and it would also bring an influx of emergency personnel to the scene. IN MY OPINION: The propane tanks were intended to kill police, fire, and EMS personnel at the scene. The fire would have eventually broken the heat seals on the propane tank valves as is seen in other propane tank incidents such as Tacoma, Washington were a foundry blew up. They would have exploded when first responders had arrived to mitigate the incident. And if they didn't, maybe that is why there is a timer on for 2400, to explode while people are helping/investigating! Killing people is one thing, but killing those responding to help is another. Not only would it scare people that their life is in danger, but it would instill a fear that uniformed personnel are not immune. Just like 9/11, the biggest impact was seeing PD/FD/EMS units and personnel killed. Consistently we talk about the 343 or the 37 etc. Thousands of civilians were killed too. We are always talking about pulling out our military because we have lost uniformed soldiers. A person dies, it is one thing. When the person that is meant to protect us dies, it is another. There are psychological effects from both, but I believe that everyday people think it is much worse when those who are there to deal with the situation in their uniform die. It instills a deeper fear.

I appreciate your concern, and your obvious pride in being an AMerican and a member of emergency services. However, in my opinion a lot of what you have written is mere speculation and it is much too early to do that with the limited info we have at this time. To me, this seems like a very amateurish attempt and at this point who knows who tried to pull it off and what their intentions were?

In my opinion the individuals responsible for this incident will only be succesful if we let it have any effect on our daily lives or preoccupy our thoughts. Yes, we should pay attention to what happened and be vigilant and prepare ourselves for what may happen, but put it all in proper context, don't speculate, and don't make it out to be any worse than it actually was.

[antiquefirelt 994]

I have to agree with JFLYNN, speculation will not help us. I'd even go further to say, that while all texts, programs and training are quick to point out secondary devices and warn first responders of ongoing dangers, our risk is likely still no greater than the typical American. We are informed responders, we should never be unsuspecting victims. This obviously is an across the board statement, as the dangers of this job do not start nor end with things that go boom. Those who think they know it all should leave emergency work now and stop burdeneing us with their complacency.

Causing death to emergency forces will strike no more fear into the country as a whole, than hurting civilians. We're still considered by many to have assumed heighten risks that accompany running toward emergencies when the public runs away. So while it's smart or even required to be fully aware situationally, I hesitate to consider us actual premeditated targets.

[Oswegowind 17]

I have my views as you have yours. Prior to 9/11 I never would've thought that someone would fly a plane into a building, let alone 3 or what could've been 4. And before that no one could've convinced me that using a 20' bayliner with explosives on board would damage a US Navy ship like the USS Cole, but I believe that already happened. They have used car bombs all over the world. I am not saying that this was performed by terrorists of Arab decent, but it was an act of terrorism none-the-less. My point is that no one should ever become complacent. We should take a thorough look at every event and prepare for the next time. This should be a wake up call, or a reminder.

Oh, and by the way, this is not the first time such a bomb as was located in Times Square was found undetonated.

Car Bomb in Haymarked in UK, January 29, 2007

And again, in 2007, the Glasgow incident...the bomb was the same. Take it as you may.

A dark green Jeep Cherokee, registration number L808 RDT,[16] travelling at a speed estimated by a witness as about 30 mph[17] (48 km/h), struck security bollards at the main entrance to Glasgow International Airport.[2] The vehicle was reported to have several petrol containers and propane gas canisters on-board.

Those incidents were in 2007. In 2008 on more than 1 occassion a primary IED was used to disable pieces of military equipment in Iraq and Afghanistan. The only difference is that there was in fact a delayed secondary IED that was triggered and killed the first responders.

Secondary IED uses on Youtube

I'm not trying to make it worse than it actually was, I am just trying to be realistic about what it was. And I do believe that people have a different sense of fear when they see uniformed persons killed doing their job. It may be caused by the media, but it happens. People are shot everyday, but when a police officer is shot it creates the "awe" effect.

[wraftery 1,275]

Food for thought:

NYC is terror-conscious and trained to be "on the lookout."

Would the same scenario in YOUR community be discovered, reported, and handled as effectively? Or would we be reading instead about LODDs?

Train again...If you see something, say something.

[RescueKujo 130]

Many good points here, but the first I'll agree with is JFlynn's. Speculation will not anybody right now. Until the bulletins come out from whichever acronymed agency (FBI, DHS, ATF et all), just train the way we have been in the past.

Secondary devices have been used for years. Everyone remember Eric Rudolph and the 1996 Olympics, or the Women's Clinic in Birmingham Alabama? These were timed and used to target Emergency Responders, and also timed for max media effect, knowing that TV news just loves this kind of story for a live feed.

VBIEDs (Vehicle Borne Improvised Explosive Devices) have been around long before they became the go to killing machine in Iraq and Afghanistan. While not as common back then, Bomb Squads and EOD Techs still trained for what was then called "car bombs". Many different ways of dealing with them, as no device is the same.

My advise to anyone performing as a first responder, review your SOPs for these types of calls. Those acronymed agencies are pretty good with sharing the info found on these incidents. If you work in a Special Ops capacity, make sure the "rank and file" people on the street are updated on new trends andf procedures, as we don't want anyone being killed out there.

And Oswego hit on a good point. Anytime first responders are targeted it may cause the public more fear due to the "shock and awe" effect. The public may think if the trained people are getting killed, how safe are we?

[khas143 13]

I have my views as you have yours. Prior to 9/11 I never would've thought that someone would fly a plane into a building, let alone 3 or what could've been 4. And before that no one could've convinced me that using a 20' bayliner with explosives on board would damage a US Navy ship like the USS Cole, but I believe that already happened. They have used car bombs all over the world. I am not saying that this was performed by terrorists of Arab decent, but it was an act of terrorism none-the-less. My point is that no one should ever become complacent. We should take a thorough look at every event and prepare for the next time. This should be a wake up call, or a reminder.

Oh, and by the way, this is not the first time such a bomb as was located in Times Square was found undetonated.

Car Bomb in Haymarked in UK, January 29, 2007

And again, in 2007, the Glasgow incident...the bomb was the same. Take it as you may.

Those incidents were in 2007. In 2008 on more than 1 occassion a primary IED was used to disable pieces of military equipment in Iraq and Afghanistan. The only difference is that there was in fact a delayed secondary IED that was triggered and killed the first responders.

Secondary IED uses on Youtube

I'm not trying to make it worse than it actually was, I am just trying to be realistic about what it was. And I do believe that people have a different sense of fear when they see uniformed persons killed doing their job. It may be caused by the media, but it happens. People are shot everyday, but when a police officer is shot it creates the "awe" effect.

I am only going to say one thing. The investigation is currently ongoing! Let the investigators do their job.

[RescueKujo 130]

Breaking News from CNN-Person of interest in the Times Square Bombing Case arrested at JFK attempting to leave the country...more to follow...

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Suspect is Faisal Shahzad, a naturalized citizen from Pakistan. 30 y/o, formerly of Shelton, CT and most recently of Bridgeport, CT. Arrested by Customs and Border Protection Agents at JFK. He was attempting to catch a flight to Dubai.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

Shout out to the NYPD Bomb-Squad. Couldn't help but to think of the movie "The Hurt Locker" as I looked at the photos of these members performing their duty. Well done!

One of my best friends and fellow PVAC members is a US Army Sgt. and EOD Specialist. He is currently serving in Kuwait. The job these brave men do is nothing short of spectacular. True heroes!

About the NYC incident. I a happy that no one got injured and to hear that one of the suspects was arrested while trying to flee the country. May he and all suspects involved suffer for a long time to come.