Hawthorne- Brush Fire- 4/06/10 Pictures

[ems-buff 81]

Here are some pictures on a recent brush fire Hawthorne had. Some backround of the incident. A primary wire broke, cause sparks, witch lit brush along 9-A. This incident was incressingly diffcult due to the fact, units had to wait to have power cut off to fully attack the fire.

Unit's opperating.

C-2191

C-2192

C-2193

E-155

L-56

U-41

U-15

63-B1

63-B2

These picture were taken with a camera phone so please forgive me for some small or poorly visable shots.

[TAPSJ 30]

That is intresting. This is the first time I have seen a ladder used at a brush fire. Great shots!!!

Thomas

[PFDRes47cue 653]

That is their quint which is their first due apparatus. Great shots thanks for sharing!

[JohnnyOV 2]

OK, for the non fire guy... Why use a ladder pipe over hand-lines especially in a wire environment?

I would imagine, since from the pictures CON ED is on location and the wires were down, that they got the go ahead that the power was out to the area.

Smart Idea HFD

[mfc2257 464]

OK, for the non fire guy... Why use a ladder pipe over hand-lines especially in a wire environment?

In his original post it looked like his concern was that the master stream from the ladder pipe would come in contact with the mains both at the top of the pole and on the ground and create the possibility of electrocution. Mentioned earlier in a different post, the power was cut.

Regardless, I'd ask to have the power cut as a precaution when using a master stream in this situation but honestly, the pics show the aerial device directing the flow of water through the lower lines on the pole which typically carry telecommunications and entertainment feeds and thus don't present the electrocution hazard that the mains at the top do. Can never be too careful though... Even with handlines on the ground someone could lose their balance and fall backwards with the hose stream flowing directly into the mains or a transformer (couple that with insulation worn off the wires from bad storms/tree damage) and the rest would be history....

Edited April 9, 2010 by mfc2257

[StOpGoBlUE 11]

. using a ladder pipe in a brush fire wires down enviroment is not the smartest thing to do espically from the looks of it that you had a man up there. if that water hits those wires there is nothing between you or the ground except a long steel ladder.. many traing officers and seminars on ladder operations.. adisve not to go within 10-15 ft of hot wires at all.. great job k.o the fire just not a smart idea using the stick with a man on it with live wires down

[mfc2257 464]

. using a ladder pipe in a brush fire wires down enviroment is not the smartest thing to do espically from the looks of it that you had a man up there. if that water hits those wires there is nothing between you or the ground except a long steel ladder.. many traing officers and seminars on ladder operations.. adisve not to go within 10-15 ft of hot wires at all.. great job k.o the fire just not a smart idea using the stick with a man on it with live wires down

Read earlier posts. They had to wait for the power to be turned off.

[EMSer 15]

Just a quick question - why were both ambulances there?

[Alpinerunner 61]

Cool pics! Regardless of live wires or not (the post does say power was shut down), why use the ladder? Was there just a lot of fire?

[helicopper 1,050]

OK, for the non fire guy... Why use a ladder pipe over hand-lines especially in a wire environment?

Let me rephrase the question... Why use master streams over hand lines on a brush fire?

[mfc2257 464]

Let me rephrase the question... Why use master streams over hand lines on a brush fire?

Volume, remote control, reach, less manpower, speed of coverage.....

If there is enough fire to hook a hydrant anyway, and you've got a pre-piped waterway or deck gun then why not via remote control put give or take 1000gpm on it.

Edited April 9, 2010 by mfc2257

[helicopper 1,050]

Volume, remote control, reach, less manpower, speed of coverage.....

If there is enough fire to hook a hydrant anyway, and you've got a pre-piped waterway or deck gun then why not via remote control put give or take 1000gpm on it.

Thank you.

[Guest HFD2198]

. using a ladder pipe in a brush fire wires down enviroment is not the smartest thing to do espically from the looks of it that you had a man up there. if that water hits those wires there is nothing between you or the ground except a long steel ladder.. many traing officers and seminars on ladder operations.. adisve not to go within 10-15 ft of hot wires at all.. great job k.o the fire just not a smart idea using the stick with a man on it with live wires down

Charlie the power was cut way before we even set the ladder up, there was no power to that whole entire area until about midnight that night.

[Guest HFD2198]

We used the master stream and handlines on this attack only because of the fact that when we stretched a handline in the woods until we ran out of line

[x635 4,066]

Not to mention, the aerial seems safer, judging by all those trees that were down/dead or looked like they were about to come down. As far as the aerial, hey, it penetrates the layers underneath nicely!!

[dwcfireman 656]

I come from upstate, where there are more brush fires and the fires are more intense. The difficulty of putting a forest fire is surmountable to that of putting out a structural fire. The manpower needed, water resources, apparatus, etc. Never mind the havoc and chaos that comes with any complex incident.

The use of the master streams at this call happened to work out in Hawthorne's favor. Generally speaking, master streams do not work well in wooded areas. Trees often get in the way and prevent massive water flow. Hand lines work well, but as previously stated in HFD2198's post, they only stretch so far. I'm not saying don't use these resources, it's just that there is a time and place for them. Open fields are better suited for master streams, and hand lines for level-ground wooded areas close to the apparatus.

Also remember that there are many other tools at a firefighter's disposal at wild fires. Rakes and shovels can be used to create small fire breaks against low-to-the-ground grass involvement, and larger fire breaks can be made by cutting down trees and larger vegetation (using chainsaws, bulldozers, etc.). The use of backpack tanks and water cans can go a long way, too. It may also be a good idea to use ATV's or qualified brush trucks or mini-attacks.

As mentioned in several of the previous posts, yes, the presence of live power lines is a major hazard. Remember, though the power line is live, you can safely work around it. It is just like any other hazardous condition, and a perimeter needs to be set up around it before beginning/continuing work on the scene. Setting up that perimeter is crucial to firefighter safety and to the firefighting effort, because an unchecked wild fire, like the one in Hawthorne, can spread fast. In this case it spread quickly up the hill. Stopping a wild fire before it gets to that point requires less resources, never mind the fact that you are saving that much more property, or in a worse scenario, preventing major fire losses.

But the number one thing that everyone needs to remember about wild fires (or any fire for that matter) is that you need people to put it out. If you know the fire is going to get away from you, or if it's already at that point, don't be afraid to call in extra resources. Let's put it into perspective: Would you try to extinguish a fully involved 2 1/2 story wood frame home with just an engine and a ladder? The key to any incident is having enough manpower to accomplish all tasks in your incident action plan. Not all fire departments are self-sufficient, and we all know how many people show up on a [volunteer] first-due at 1400 hours on a Wednesday. I'll reiterate; do not be afraid to call for more resources. Call in the extra staff and equipment early on, because you can always send them back if you don't need them.

[Guest]

Looking at that picture, the stream looks to be hitting around 100 feet away from the quint, so why wouldn't a handline reach?

[gpdexplorer 46]

Looking at that picture, the stream looks to be hitting around 100 feet away from the quint, so why wouldn't a handline reach?

I don't think it wasn't that a handline wouldn't reach, I think they the IC chose the master stream because it provided a higher volume of water and could cover a greater area of land, the picture just shows where they are covering at that moment in time, I think they probably covered most of the hill with the master stream.

[Guest HFD2198]

Looking at that picture, the stream looks to be hitting around 100 feet away from the quint, so why wouldn't a handline reach?

The Handlines were reaching but by the time con ed shut the power down there was a good amount of fire going, the master stream got the whole entire hill without any problems,and dug up the ground and soaked and did a great job, dont get me wrong we were using handlines too but we had to hump it up and over the hill, and plus those trees werent to safe.