Graham Hills cyclist rescue

[ny10570 745]

Date: 4/4/10

Time: 09:45

Location: Graham Hill Park

Frequency: 46.26 / Fire 11 / EMS 11

PFD Units Operating: 2371 (IC), R47, U47

HFD Units Operating: 2192, 2193, U97, 63U5

PVAC Units Operating: 76B1, MPALS 37M1

WCDES Units Operating: Battalion 11

Westchester County PD

Mount Pleasant PD

Weather Conditions: Gorgeous

Description Of Incident: Injured bicyclist on trails requiring ATVs to access

Reporters: Remember585

Writer: Remember585

11:30 - Patient contact made, EMS assessing.

That park is incredibly difficult to access. Some areas not even accessible by ATV. I can think of one small area in the middle of the park you may be able hoist a patient out, but the rest of the park is heavily wooded. The park has several miles of fairly technical mountain biking trails and its been sheer luck that this hasn't been an issue sooner. Graham Hills has also been the site of a few brush fires, but none in the last 10 to 15 years. Even if you know the park front to back, its can be hard to describe your location and even harder to find someone based on a description of their location. Can 60 or state police obtain GPS coordinates from 911 calls? Then can anyone do something with those coordinates when they get them? How long does it take to get the county ATVs activated? This was lucky, and the individual wasn't too badly injured. However a punctured lung, lacerated organ, or impalement could kill someone in 2 hrs. These questions don't just apply to Graham Hills. This area is littered with isolated hiking and cycling trails.

[x635 4,066]

Sounds like a very difficult call. I've mountain biked those trails and they are difficult and confusing. (and they go a LOT farther then one would think from the outside)

Was Westchester County PD aviation requested or assist in the search?

[223Truck 0]

Isn't Graham hills in Thornwood? I remember a couple years ago Thornwood had a rescue in there. Sounds like it was right there too if Hawthorne and Pleasantville were there. Were they occupied on another call?

[Tapout 42]

Apparently, many thought of the bird, wished they'd had the bird and wanted the assistance of the bird, but no one actually made the official call to get the (county PD) bird out to assist with the search. Glad it had a happy ending though, nonetheless.

[INIT915 1,119]

Apparently, many thought of the bird, wished they'd had the bird and wanted the assistance of the bird, but no one actually made the official call to get the (county PD) bird out to assist with the search. Glad it had a happy ending though, nonetheless.

Not sure who would have to make the "official call", WCPD Units were dispatched right away, simultaneous with EMS, so County PD clearly knew about the incident. It doesn't appear as any outside agency would have had to make the call.

[Tapout 42]

No argument about County PD involvement, but County PD Aviation would have had to have been specifically called out to aid in the search. As I am NOT of said unit, I cannot say definitively whether or not the copter was called.... but honestly, I don't think they were called.

PM Chris192 for the final word.

[ny10570 745]

The official park entrance is in Pleasantville, but the park is in both Thornwood and Pleasantville.

[WAS967 97]

Here is a map of one of the main trails for reference. Edited April 6, 2010 by WAS967

[helicopper 1,050]

The official park entrance is in Pleasantville, but the park is in both Thornwood and Pleasantville.

[sigh/] This is one of the things that drives me crazy(er). The whole park is in the Town of Mount Pleasant. None if it is in the Village of Pleasantville. Yet there are three different fire districts, three different EMS districts, and two police departments covering it (Mt Pleasant PD routinely responds to calls there with the County PD who have primary jurisdiction - dizzy yet?).

Anyway, getting back to this incident. Nobody asked for aviation to respond or we would have (a crew was not on duty or they would have responded automatically). I suspect that nobody expected it to take as long as it did to find the victim or we would have been requested.

On the subject of gators/ATV's - who's ATV's/gators were used in this incident?

[huzzie59 75]

West. Co Parks Map

http://www.westchestergov.com/Parks/pdfs/Maps/Trailways/GrahamHills.PDF

[xtreme 0]

On the subject of gators/ATV's - who's ATV's/gators were used in this incident?

Hawthorne FD's Gator was used for this incident.

Also it was my understanding that Graham Hill's Park was in Hawthorne's Fire District.

Edited April 6, 2010 by xtreme

[PFDRes47cue 653]

Isn't Graham hills in Thornwood? I remember a couple years ago Thornwood had a rescue in there. Sounds like it was right there too if Hawthorne and Pleasantville were there. Were they occupied on another call?

Graham Hills is in Pleasantville FD District. The reason Hawthorne was there was because they have a Gator not because of location. When we moved over the the easiest access point where the pt was brought to, we were technically in Thornwood district. A Thornwood chief was on scene once we staged in their district.

[ny10570 745]

Graham Hills is in Pleasantville FD District. The reason Hawthorne was there was because they have a Gator not because of location. When we moved over the the easiest access point where the pt was brought to, we were technically in Thornwood district. A Thornwood chief was on scene once we staged in their district.

Actually, P'ville has the smallest slice of the park. It just so happens the main access is in Pleasantville. As a matter of fact there is a house or two at the end of Central Av are technically within the Thornwood Fire District. I believe it was several years ago when Pleasantville, Thornwood, and Chappaqua were drawing up a mutual aid plan for responses on the Saw Mill that Pleasantville and Thornwood clarified some of the district lines. The houses at the end of Central Av were one issue, the commercial lot next to McDonalds (the light poles in the lot are the district line), and the superintendents house at the Mount Pleasant Cottage School are the ones I remember off the top of my head.

So, back to Grahm Hills..

Hawthorne has the Western half, Thornwood the Eastern half and Pleasantville the northern edges surrounding the Locust Rd area and Woodland Dr areas. They also have the parking lot and 117 access rd well as the Pollywiggle Rd access. Poor Hawthorne doesn't have any access. In fact the park is almost completely fenced off on the Hawthorne side except for a few deer trails and stream beds. Maybe they're trying to say something about Hawthorne.

[GAW6 66]

[sigh/] three different EMS districts,

Hawthorne, Pleasantville and ?

[helicopper 1,050]

Graham Hills is in Pleasantville FD District. The reason Hawthorne was there was because they have a Gator not because of location. When we moved over the the easiest access point where the pt was brought to, we were technically in Thornwood district. A Thornwood chief was on scene once we staged in their district.

Very little of the park is actually in Pleasantville's district. The entrance and perhaps part of the parking lot is but the majority of the woods is Hawthorne and Thornwood.

[JJB531 652]

[sigh/] three different EMS districts,

Hawthorne, Pleasantville and ?

Valhalla is the third EMS district in the Town of Mount Pleasant.

[GAW6 66]

REALLY???? I think I know that! But they do NOT have ANY jurisdiction in Graham Hills, which is what this topic is about.

If you want to get "techincal" about EMS districts in the Town of Mount Pleasant, then you have to add Chappaqua, Briarcliff, and Sleepy Hollow.

[helicopper 1,050]

[sigh/] three different EMS districts,

Hawthorne, Pleasantville and ?

I'm guessing Thornwood because the EMS and fire districts follow all the same lines.

[GAW6 66]

ame='GAW6' date='06 April 2010 - 09:30 AM' timestamp='1270560613' post='208441']

I'm guessing Thornwood because the EMS and fire districts follow all the same lines.

Thornwood does not run EMS - Pleasantville VAC covers the Thornwood Fire District.

[JJB531 652]

REALLY???? I think I know that! But they do NOT have ANY jurisdiction in Graham Hills, which is what this topic is about.

If you want to get "techincal" about EMS districts in the Town of Mount Pleasant, then you have to add Chappaqua, Briarcliff, and Sleepy Hollow.

Who is questioning you? Chris192 merely stated that in the town of Mt. Pleasant there are three EMS agencies, you asked who the third was, and I provided an answer not realizing he was referring to Graham Hills.

Edited April 6, 2010 by Chris192

[X2321 133]

Graham Hills Park Dec. 31, 2004. Injured biker deep in the woods.

[223Truck 0]

Graham Hills Park Dec. 31, 2004. Injured biker deep in the woods.

Thanks X2321,

That was the exact call i was referring to, i remember hearing Thornwood on the air and reading this article in the paper the next day.

[x635 4,066]

Anyway, getting back to this incident. Nobody asked for aviation to respond or we would have (a crew was not on duty or they would have responded automatically). I suspect that nobody expected it to take as long as it did to find the victim or we would have been requested.

Is Westchester County PD aviation available via pager when they are not in the air? Also, they do have a winch and stokes, correct? And thermal camera? And therefore could have extricated the patient and just taken the short flight to WMC? Knowing this park, shouldn't County PD Aviation be paged out right away just in case- so they can at least get to the airport, pre-flight, etc......This is a life saving resource that could make all the difference....and it should be in every agencies preplans for incidents like this.

Westchester should work on funding the Police-Fire-Rescue helicopter (using Public Safety AND DES funding) to make this program 24/7, with a 4-6 minute lift off time. It has been proven that helicopters can make the difference between life and death, catching a suspect or letting him get away, etc. You'd think on busy weekend days with so many people using county parks that they'd be up or available.

What about Stat Flight? Wouldn't they be available to assist for something like this, or are they purely a for-profit transport service now? Also, how long would it have taken to get NYPD aviation there?

[PFDRes47cue 653]

Very little of the park is actually in Pleasantville's district. The entrance and perhaps part of the parking lot is but the majority of the woods is Hawthorne and Thornwood.

I was referring to the entrance being in Pleasantville. Pleasantville also has the Foshay access...

[ny10570 745]

I didn;t think statflight had winch capability.

Foshay would maybe let an ATV in, but not smoothly or easily. Better access if off Polywiggle.

[helicopper 1,050]

Is Westchester County PD aviation available via pager when they are not in the air? Also, they do have a winch and stokes, correct? And thermal camera? And therefore could have extricated the patient and just taken the short flight to WMC? Knowing this park, shouldn't County PD Aviation be paged out right away just in case- so they can at least get to the airport, pre-flight, etc......This is a life saving resource that could make all the difference....and it should be in every agencies preplans for incidents like this.

Westchester should work on funding the Police-Fire-Rescue helicopter (using Public Safety AND DES funding) to make this program 24/7, with a 4-6 minute lift off time. It has been proven that helicopters can make the difference between life and death, catching a suspect or letting him get away, etc. You'd think on busy weekend days with so many people using county parks that they'd be up or available.

What about Stat Flight? Wouldn't they be available to assist for something like this, or are they purely a for-profit transport service now? Also, how long would it have taken to get NYPD aviation there?

When on-duty we are dispatched like any other unit, right over the air. When not on-duty, we are subject to recall.

Yes, the Bell 407 has a hoist and thermal imaging camera and we do have a stokes basket. Not that we're going to rush into a hoist rescue if it is just a matter of "convenience". There will be a risk/benefit analysis and if hoisting is the best option and it is feasible, it will then be considered. Was this victim gravely injured?

The best use of the helicopter in this scenario would have been to expedite locating the victim. Of course in a few more weeks when tree cover fills in, that will be much more difficult.

As for transporting the victim to the medical center, we would not have done that. We would have extracted the victim from the woods and delivered him to a waiting ambulance for transport to a hospital. We are not, repeat again for anyone who may miss it, NOT a medevac operation.

STAT-Flight does not have hoist or thermal imaging capability. They are an air ambulance not a rescue aircraft. This is not a knock on STAT-Flight at all; it is just acknowledgement of their capabilities. They are not the right resource for a woodland rescue.

As for the NYPD, they have their own area and call volume to cover so there would have to be a very compelling reason to request them into Westchester for a land "rescue" call. Everyone is so quick to say "call NYC" but it takes quite a few administrative approvals to get them authorized to leave the city. Just because the victim is in the woods wouldn't qualify. Budgets are tight all over and the NYPD isn't going to routinely come out of the city except as part of their air-sea-rescue mission.

I hope this answers some of the questions.

[kfire94 3]

How about the U.S coast guard? Will they do land base operations or just water? I believe they have a base in the city at governors island. There choppers will hoist in any weather. We had hikers down the last two weekends both about a mile and half in on rough terrain. Both were minor injurys but if it was more serious I was thinking about a hoist. I like to think about it before it happens and time is not on your side. I know Chris192 said they can do it but if there not available then option two is? We have a six wheeler polaris which will go just about anywere but even that is limited by terrain. One of the two was a hand carry mile and half. Not fun!! LOL

[helicopper 1,050]

How about the U.S coast guard? Will they do land base operations or just water? I believe they have a base in the city at governors island. There choppers will hoist in any weather. We had hikers down the last two weekends both about a mile and half in on rough terrain. Both were minor injurys but if it was more serious I was thinking about a hoist. I like to think about it before it happens and time is not on your side. I know Chris192 said they can do it but if there not available then option two is? We have a six wheeler polaris which will go just about anywere but even that is limited by terrain. One of the two was a hand carry mile and half. Not fun!! LOL

Governor's Island closed several years ago. Now all the air assets come out of either Atlantic City or Cape Cod so their response time is not good.

The New York State Police also do hoist operations so they are a good "plan B".

The reality is that if it is not life-threatening it is going to be a ground op though. Nobody should put a helicopter at risk for a knee or ankle injury.