Health Care passes.

[ny10570 745]

There things in this bill i like and things i dislike, especially on the issue of abortion. All in all i think Americans are over reacting. Medicare, Civil Rights and Social Security...all issues people were flipping out about when those bills were being passed...

I'm not going to get into too much details about my feelings towards this bill, but i will say that health care reform was needed, but not everything is this bill i believe will HELP.

As an ems volunteer and a non union employee speaking to many FF/LEO's and other UNIONIZED employees - youre unions are PROVEN to be far worse than this bill. If you are in a union, you do NOT have the right to speak against this bill as your UNION leaders have added input towards this bill. Every union in America has had consideration put into this bill and the majority of UNIONS financially "support" Obama and his Liberal friends. You want change in this Country, get your UNIONS out of the pockets of the Liberals. Most people on this website are NOT Liberal, yet their UNION fees support Liberals!!! WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!

Of course unions back Liberals. Conservatives are usually out there to gut union and worker rights in favor of business rights. They have their say and you have yours. Why the hell do conservatives make everything so black and white. Every issue is an effing mush of perspectives and partial truths. This healthcare bill is massively far from perfect no matter which part of the political spectrum you're from. However something has to be done about healthcare in this country. Since Nixon no Republican has made a push for any type of healthcare reform other than cuts to coverage.

[Arrowxt 8]

If they had listened to Reagan how many years ago about the damage that unnecessary and frivolous torts would destroy the insurance industry and basically make it unaffordable for anyone we wouldn’t be here today. It is a shame that since the day I was old enough to have to be insured I was.

I want my refund……that was a lot of hard work and money.

[JohnnyOV 2]

I'm sure those who can't find work right now would welcome any creation of this type.

:lol::lol:

oh wow, I haven't laughed that hard in a long time. Hey, at least someone has to feel bad for everyone

[gamewell45 258]

:lol::lol:

oh wow, I haven't laughed that hard in a long time. Hey, at least someone has to feel bad for everyone

Glad your easily amused.

[ny10570 745]

If they had listened to Reagan how many years ago about the damage that unnecessary and frivolous torts would destroy the insurance industry and basically make it unaffordable for anyone we wouldn’t be here today. It is a shame that since the day I was old enough to have to be insured I was.

I want my refund……that was a lot of hard work and money.

Another great example of republicans and democrats working together to shaft the average citizen. Tort reform is one the few issues that both sides do their best to let die in committee.

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Health care legislation passed? Jeez, I'd better read the "news" more often.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

-Thomas Jefferson.

"Our liberty is protected by four boxes... the ballot box, the jury box, the soap box,

and the cartridge box."

-Anonymous

I only hope we'll have to use the first three to change this crap, and not the last one.

[DOC22 1]

I've heard dribs and drabs of what is in this bill, but nowhere does there seem to be a complete copy of the thing in ts entirety. Can anybody come up with it? But be prepared, cause it's WELL over 1000 pages.

[Stench60 29]

For a fantastic take on the consequences of the current direction we're heading in, please read this article.

My link

Edited March 24, 2010 by Stench60

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

-Thomas Jefferson.

"Our liberty is protected by four boxes... the ballot box, the jury box, the soap box,

and the cartridge box."

-Anonymous

I only hope we'll have to use the first three to change this crap, and not the last one.

Actually Ed Howdershelt said your second quote speaking to anti-war demonstrators in Arlington, Texas in 1971

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Howdershelt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_boxes

[FFLieu 70]

This is what I don't understand. According to the Congressional Budget Office, 83% of the population is currently insured in some way, shape, or form. The bill passes and as a result, we, the American Taxpayer, are forced to spend $938 Billion in a recession economy so that we can increase the insurance roles by only 12 percent. Ahh, Marxism at its best, saying nothing regarding the unconstitutionality of heavily fining those who choose not to carry insurance. Beginning in 2014, those not carrying insurance will be fined $95 a year or 0.5 percent of a household’s income, whichever is greater; in 2015, it will be $495 or 1 percent of income; in 2016, it will be $750 or 2 percent of income (with a maximum of $2,250 for a family). The penalty would be adjusted for inflation after 2016.

Anyone want to jump on the bandwagon with me and make this clown a 1-term President?

[ny10570 745]

and according to the CBO the bill will reduce our deficit. Sounds like a 938 Billion well spent as opposed to the 168 Billion that Bush spent to stave off a recession that was so much larger than the American consumer. If I remember correctly the CBO stated Bush's rebates were not nearly enough to make a measurable impact on the economy.

Edited March 24, 2010 by ny10570

[antiquefirelt 994]

and according to the CBO the bill will reduce our deficit. Sounds like a 938 Billion well spent as opposed to the 168 Billion that Bush spent to stave off a recession that was so much larger than the American consumer. If I remember correctly the CBO stated Bush's rebates were not nearly enough to make a measurable impact on the economy.

So they're creating a new tax to reduce the deficit and calling it healthcare? It will contribute to each of one our personal deficits. Why not charge just what is needed to implement this foolishness? More back door politics from either side.

One term without a doubt. He's ensuring a Republican will be seated next in the White House as his predecessor ensured his seat.

[gamewell45 258]

This is what I don't understand. According to the Congressional Budget Office, 83% of the population is currently insured in some way, shape, or form. The bill passes and as a result, we, the American Taxpayer, are forced to spend $938 Billion in a recession economy so that we can increase the insurance roles by only 12 percent. Ahh, Marxism at its best, saying nothing regarding the unconstitutionality of heavily fining those who choose not to carry insurance. ?

Privately owned insurance companies will gain the 12 percent; that's capitalism at its best; so your theory of Marxism just went out the window. Fining people is nothing new in this country; you break the law, whether you agree with it or not, you pay the penalty.

Anyone want to jump on the bandwagon with me and make this clown a 1-term President

Why would we want to do that? The other "clown" got us into the current war(s) (actually its a police-action, articles of war were never drafted nor passed) that we're in right now, hurt working American's with his labor policies (that may be news to some of you union brothers and sisters in both the private and public sectors) and his constant gaff's helped to make America the laughing stock of the world. The current "clown"--as you call him-- is at least trying save Americans as opposed to killing more of our men and women (and untold thousands of civilians) in unjust wars.

[FFLieu 70]

They're all clowns, regardless of party. My theory of Dems and Reps is this: D= Depression and R=Recession. They're all self-serving people who pander to us - the voters - so that they can get elected, and then screw us the second they're seated in office. All I can say is that the true concept of having a government by and for the people of this great country has become muddied and obscured over the last 50 or so years because of the actions of these "career politicians."

And as far as being fined for breaking the law, that's fine by me (no pun intended), so long as the law is constitutional; sadly, in this case, it appears, to me, at least, that the clause regarding fines does not fall in line with the tenets of the US Constitution.

[chris 18]

Does this mean they can turn away illegal alliens and arrest them and send them to there homeland so the people that pay the taxes can use the hospital ? It seems that there is no good reason to be a good citizen anymore, the more honest you are the more it costs you. When will it stop ?

[ny10570 745]

They're all clowns, regardless of party. My theory of Dems and Reps is this: D= Depression and R=Recession. They're all self-serving people who pander to us - the voters - so that they can get elected, and then screw us the second they're seated in office. All I can say is that the true concept of having a government by and for the people of this great country has become muddied and obscured over the last 50 or so years because of the actions of these "career politicians."

And as far as being fined for breaking the law, that's fine by me (no pun intended), so long as the law is constitutional; sadly, in this case, it appears, to me, at least, that the clause regarding fines does not fall in line with the tenets of the US Constitution.

Nothing would make me happier than to see a true 3rd party candidate have a shot at anything. Too bad we're all sheep and vote out of fear. if people voted with their brain McCain would have won in 2000 and possibly again in 2008. He was a much better candidate when he wasn't playing to the polls, kissing left wing arse, and running with Pallin.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

and according to the CBO the bill will reduce our deficit. Sounds like a 938 Billion well spent as opposed to the 168 Billion that Bush spent to stave off a recession that was so much larger than the American consumer. If I remember correctly the CBO stated Bush's rebates were not nearly enough to make a measurable impact on the economy.

Sure, it reduces the deficit if you include the double-counting of Social Security and Medicare money done by the people who put the bill together. They're taking money out of one, putting it into another, and then counting both transactions. The CBO isn't allowed to look at those sorts of things though, they are only allowed to run the numbers as they are presented. So its another political sham.

Also, about "Bush" hurting all the unions, I have one word: NAFTA. And who, might I ask, was president when that got signed? Right, Clinton.

[ny10570 745]

Negative sage. The CBO is not going to be deceived by double counting of social security and medicaid funds. They are a bi-partisan group that is tasked with analyzing all of the financial affects of legislation. They are not limited to confines of any one bill. They are also responsible for estimating the the long term impact of the US budget. In all of their analysis the bill reduces debt. Yes much of the savings, especially nearly all of the early savings is a result of taxes the savings eventually transitions to decreases in medicaid and social security spending.

Who said Bush attacked the unions. Republicans in general are anti-union and pro business. NAFTA was not anti-union per say. It did have consequences that disproportionately affected union employees, but it has nothing in it that affects the rights of unions or union members.

Edited March 25, 2010 by ny10570

[gamewell45 258]

Also, about "Bush" hurting all the unions, I have one word: NAFTA. And who, might I ask, was president when that got signed? Right, Clinton.

Please name one positive thing that Bush did for labor in general.

While he made a bad decision when it came to NAFTA, Cinton did alot more for labor then Bush ever did.

[antiquefirelt 994]

As seen on Firenews.org: Quote of the Week

Let me get this straight......we're trying to pass a health care plan written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that hasn't read it but exempts themselves from it, to be signed by a president that also hasn't read it and who smokes, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, all to beoverseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's broke. What could possibly go wrong? "Maxine".

[ny10570 745]

As seen on Firenews.org: Quote of the Week

Let me get this straight......we're trying to pass a health care plan written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that hasn't read it but exempts themselves from it, to be signed by a president that also hasn't read it and who smokes, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, all to beoverseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's broke. What could possibly go wrong? "Maxine".

Yep. Thats about right. However its par for the course. These are the same people that every year vote down minimum wage increases yet have voted their own raises through with little opposition. Over the last 60 years They have managed to outpace inflation while minimum wage has fallen to almost half its initial value and been unchanged since 97.

Republican or Democrat they're all lying thieving animals.

[antiquefirelt 994]

Yep. Thats about right. However its par for the course. These are the same people that every year vote down minimum wage increases yet have voted their own raises through with little opposition. Over the last 60 years They have managed to outpace inflation while minimum wage has fallen to almost half its initial value and been unchanged since 97.

Republican or Democrat they're all lying thieving animals.

I agree with your last statement. The minimum wage thing doesn't bother me.

The way I see it, as minimum wage increases, the cost of everything follows:

Now the orange picker gets more money so the orange grove owner has to mark up the cost of his oranges. The guys loading and unloading the oranges get more money so their boss charges more for warehousing/shipping. The store shelf stockers get a raise so the supermarket marks up the oranges to cover their raises plus all those that came before them. The result, oranges are more expensive and everyone paid over the new minimum wage that didn't get a raise now has a higher cost of living (or at least oranges). Now think about every other employer that has minimum wage workers and look at who bears the brunt of paying for these raises. Raising the minimum wage is a short term feel good that hurts more people than it helps and continues a vicious cycle of abusing the middle class.

[ny10570 745]

Thats a common misconception. First, you just described inflation. As society grows and prospers, demand for products increases. This drives up costs and the cost of living. That then requires the workers to need more money which perpetuates the cycle. Since the last minimum wage increase inflation has still grown and at a consistent rate in spite of the fed's best efforts to control it. In fact before the economy crapped out unemployment was without exception lower in states with minimum wages above the federal. Americans suck at saving. Per capita we carry more dept than any other nation. When we're working we're spending. Besides, this allegedly non-socialism country (at least until Obama) spends an awful lot of money on people with no jobs.