Health Care passes.

[99subi 121]

What a shame.Welp. was a good run America.

A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have. Thomas Jefferson

[KC2OBW 1]

Friggin Wonderful!!!! We need jobs so people can afford healthcare...This bill justs gives these lazy jack offs who abuse the welfare system more of a reason to stay home and piss my taxes away....Thanks

[sr71 1]

This just made my day even worse.....this whole thing is a socialistic mess, I really hope it doesn't stick around on the books for too long.

[gamewell45 258]

This just made my day even worse.....this whole thing is a socialistic mess, I really hope it doesn't stick around on the books for too long.

I got news for you; almost everything in this country is socialistic; anything that is provided by the government is socialistic in nature; schools, sanitation, police, fire, Highway department, and the list goes on and on. Plus we've had socialized medicine since the inception of Medicare/Medicaid. So this is nothing new; just an expansion of a program or concept that's been in existence for decades; I may not like everything in the bill, but the fact of the matter is that it will help millions of men, women and children who have absolutely no medical coverage at all.

Furthermore, I think this is going to help those who can't afford medical insurance or those who are under insured. Just tonight, we had a rescue call and the woman there thought she might be having a pulmonary embolism. She RMA'd because she had no medical insurance and couldn't afford the ambulance and instead had one of her relatives drive her to the hospital. I hope she made it; if she had coverage, she could have gone in the ambulance with a medic. I'm sure some of you in EMS may have seen similar situations on rescue calls.

Of course its going to cost money; but if the government cuts out these so-called "pork barrel" projects and scales back on other affairs that we conduct around the world, that's a good start to help fund it.

Edited March 22, 2010 by gamewell45

[bfxfd 8]

I got news for you; almost everything in this country is socialistic; anything that is provided by the government is socialistic in nature; schools, sanitation, police, fire, Highway department, and the list goes on and on. Plus we've had socialized medicine since the inception of Medicare/Medicaid. So this is nothing new; just an expansion of a program or concept that's been in existence for decades; I may not like everything in the bill, but the fact of the matter is that it will help millions of men, women and children who have absolutely no medical coverage at all.

Furthermore, I think this is going to help those who can't afford medical insurance or those who are under insured. Just tonight, we had a rescue call and the woman there thought she might be having a pulmonary embolism. She RMA'd because she had no medical insurance and couldn't afford the ambulance and instead had one of her relatives drive her to the hospital. I hope she made it; if she had coverage, she could have gone in the ambulance with a medic. I'm sure some of you in EMS may have seen similar situations on rescue calls.

Of course its going to cost money; but if the government cuts out these so-called "pork barrel" projects and scales back on other affairs that we conduct around the world, that's a good start to help fund it.

There was no need for this bill to extend coverage. A majority of these people that you mention including children already qualify for medicaid, SCHIP, or other government assistance programs. All this bill is going to do is pave the way for a single payer system which will bankrupt this country.

[gamewell45 258]

There was no need for this bill to extend coverage. A majority of these people that you mention including children already qualify for medicaid, SCHIP, or other government assistance programs. All this bill is going to do is pave the way for a single payer system which will bankrupt this country.

It will not bankrupt the country contrary to what you maintain; were you aware that over 37 million children have no medical coverage or are under insured? What about the minority of those who don't qualify and have no insurance? Are they supposed to get sick and die?

As I said before, we already have socialized medicine in this country. People then said it was the beginning of the end for the country and it would bankrupt us and it was part of a plan to socialize America. Surprise, it didn't happen. its going to be the same with this legislation; finally people who get sick won't have to worry about losing everything they have worked for their entire lives.

As i mentioned earlier, if they are worried about cost; eliminate pork barrel spending and cut back on our overseas ventures; that'll be a good start. Either way I think the bill is going to help a lot more people then hurt them.

[weaselff 6]

I got news for you; almost everything in this country is socialistic; anything that is provided by the government is socialistic in nature; schools, sanitation, police, fire, Highway department, and the list goes on and on. Plus we've had socialized medicine since the inception of Medicare/Medicaid. So this is nothing new; just an expansion of a program or concept that's been in existence for decades; I may not like everything in the bill, but the fact of the matter is that it will help millions of men, women and children who have absolutely no medical coverage at all.

Furthermore, I think this is going to help those who can't afford medical insurance or those who are under insured. Just tonight, we had a rescue call and the woman there thought she might be having a pulmonary embolism. She RMA'd because she had no medical insurance and couldn't afford the ambulance and instead had one of her relatives drive her to the hospital. I hope she made it; if she had coverage, she could have gone in the ambulance with a medic. I'm sure some of you in EMS may have seen similar situations on rescue calls.

Of course its going to cost money; but if the government cuts out these so-called "pork barrel" projects and scales back on other affairs that we conduct around the world, that's a good start to help fund it.

You allowed someone having a possible pulmonary embolism to RMA???

[gamewell45 258]

You allowed someone having a possible pulmonary embolism to RMA???

Not me, i'm not EMS and I'm not prepared to discuss it in here.

[JJB531 652]

You allowed someone having a possible pulmonary embolism to RMA???

Although this is a discussion for a different thread, if someone wants to RMA and is of sound mind and judgement, they have every right to, regardless of the condition they present with to the EMS provider. As an EMS provider, you can not force an individual to seek medical care unless you can document that the individual was not of sound mind (at a minimum alert and oriented to person, place, and time) and therefore incapable of refusing medical care (i.e. altered mental status).

Obviously attempts should be made to convince an individual to seek medical attention, and that includes contacting medical control and allowing the ER physician to speak to the patient to convince them to seek treatment at the ED. Documentation is more important with RMA's then any other PCR an EMS provider will ever write. Important points that you should always document on your PCR:

1) That you advised the individual the consequences to refusing medical care, including the possibility of death

2) That Dr. (insert name) from (hospital facility) spoke with the patient in an attempt to convince patient to allow treatment

3) That you informed the patient to call 911 in the event their condition worsens or they change their mind and do wish to seek treatment

4) At a minimum, the patient should follow-up with their private physician or seek other means of transportation to the ED if they do not with to be transported by EMS.

5) Document anyone else (family members, clergy, coworkers, family, police, fire, etc.) who attempted to convince the patient to seek tranport/treatment.

6) After all of the above measures were attempted, the patient still refused treatment/transport despite fully understanding the consequences to the RMA.

[ny10570 745]

Friggin Wonderful!!!! We need jobs so people can afford healthcare...This bill justs gives these lazy jack offs who abuse the welfare system more of a reason to stay home and piss my taxes away....Thanks

In this country insured or not when you are having that MI, need 2 stents and a pacemaker put in you will receive it. If you have no insurance and do not care about your credit then it will be free to you tanks to the taxpayers. In theory if you give everyone health insurance they won't need 80k worth of surgery and medical devices and another 5k per year of healthcare now that they're disabled. They instead get the 5k worth of healthcare now and the statins and anti-hypertensives can stave off that MI.

There was no need for this bill to extend coverage. A majority of these people that you mention including children already qualify for medicaid, SCHIP, or other government assistance programs. All this bill is going to do is pave the way for a single payer system which will bankrupt this country.

In NYS, yes. Few states are as Liberal as NY with healthcare coverage. Its why we're dying under a massive medicaid system that eats up half our budget. A lot of problems that are unique to NY disappear when everyone has healthcare. They don't just get redistributed, they flat out get fixed. Things like double dippers, people leaving jobs or defrauding the system to get coverage, etc.

You allowed someone having a possible pulmonary embolism to RMA???

You're fully within your right to let yourself die.

[antiquefirelt 994]

Either way I think the bill is going to help a lot more people then hurt them.

I agree it will help a lot more people than it will hurt. The problem is that a large percentage aren't even American citizens, yet the ones hurt will be 100% taxpaying Americans. Again, the people who work hardest to get a head will be penalized and forced to "rescue" those who either don't work or we pay to work a little (yeah this one kills me).

It's amazing but someone I know very well who works part time who received every dime plus more back in federal taxes this year! More than she paid in! Guess who's subsidizing that? After all was said and done 15% of my total earnings went to the Federal govt this year.

How about a flat tax? Maybe around 10% of gross earnings with no loopholes? Time to change this country around a bit.

This healthcare "system" will be a huge mistake by the time it's even up and running and then we'll have "too much invested to quit". And BTW, no one gets turned away from the ED with an actual medical problem. Our EMS units run these people to the ED daily with no mention of costs and no payment of the bills, and we still do it with a smile and professionalism. My point is, in many areas there is no mistreatment or withholding of care regardless of insurance. This kind of forced socialism causes further prejudice against those who are less fortunate and/or jobless and/or not American citizens. I consider myself a decent human, but it's difficult to be so kind when your constantly being taken advantage of.

[tunaFish 0]

I got news for you; almost everything in this country is socialistic; anything that is provided by the government is socialistic in nature; schools, sanitation, police, fire, Highway department, and the list goes on and on. Plus we've had socialized medicine since the inception of Medicare/Medicaid. So this is nothing new; just an expansion of a program or concept that's been in existence for decades; I may not like everything in the bill, but the fact of the matter is that it will help millions of men, women and children who have absolutely no medical coverage at all.

Furthermore, I think this is going to help those who can't afford medical insurance or those who are under insured. Just tonight, we had a rescue call and the woman there thought she might be having a pulmonary embolism. She RMA'd because she had no medical insurance and couldn't afford the ambulance and instead had one of her relatives drive her to the hospital. I hope she made it; if she had coverage, she could have gone in the ambulance with a medic. I'm sure some of you in EMS may have seen similar situations on rescue calls.

Of course its going to cost money; but if the government cuts out these so-called "pork barrel" projects and scales back on other affairs that we conduct around the world, that's a good start to help fund it.

Agreed! Try being one of those people who don't have insurance, can't afford to have insurance, have limitations that won't pay for pre-existing conditions, at least for a year, if ever. So, you pay for the insurance at an average of say $300.00 a month, usually with no Rx coverage, and on top of it, continue to pay a doctor his full fee. That makes sense now, doesn't it? COBRA runs about $1000 a month!

Count your blessings, if you aren't in these types of situations!

[antiquefirelt 994]

That makes sense now, doesn't it?

Sure it does for those in that situation. No one wants to see people not get the care they need to be healthy. Even the notion that healthy people will cost us less over time has validity. But, the problem is that there are tons of other cases that do not warrant the same open-mindedness. Far too many abuse the systems we have and far too many of those are not in this country legally. Develop a system that actually helps those that have no other means and really need it, but don't make me pay for everyone who doesn't want to work and would rather call an ambulance "cause it's free" vs. a $7 cab when they have a sprained ankle.

So with the national healthcare program, what will keep smaller employers from offering insurance. The management of employee benefit insurance costs money and they can now offer their employees anther $2/hr and stop offering healthcare (passing the costs of to all of us).

[weaselff 6]

Although this is a discussion for a different thread, if someone wants to RMA and is of sound mind and judgement, they have every right to, regardless of the condition they present with to the EMS provider. As an EMS provider, you can not force an individual to seek medical care unless you can document that the individual was not of sound mind (at a minimum alert and oriented to person, place, and time) and therefore incapable of refusing medical care (i.e. altered mental status).

Obviously attempts should be made to convince an individual to seek medical attention, and that includes contacting medical control and allowing the ER physician to speak to the patient to convince them to seek treatment at the ED. Documentation is more important with RMA's then any other PCR an EMS provider will ever write. Important points that you should always document on your PCR:

1) That you advised the individual the consequences to refusing medical care, including the possibility of death

2) That Dr. (insert name) from (hospital facility) spoke with the patient in an attempt to convince patient to allow treatment

3) That you informed the patient to call 911 in the event their condition worsens or they change their mind and do wish to seek treatment

4) At a minimum, the patient should follow-up with their private physician or seek other means of transportation to the ED if they do not with to be transported by EMS.

5) Document anyone else (family members, clergy, coworkers, family, police, fire, etc.) who attempted to convince the patient to seek tranport/treatment.

6) After all of the above measures were attempted, the patient still refused treatment/transport despite fully understanding the consequences to the RMA.

I am aware of these things, he just made the tone of the post sound as if he was ok with allowing someone to RMA with a pulmonary embolism with a trivial issue such as lack of insurance, like he was dealing with a stubbed toe or something. I worked in the NYC system where you had to spend 30 minutes on the phone with telemetry to even consider an RMA like that or it would be your a$$.

Edited March 22, 2010 by weaselff

[ny10570 745]

Antique, you nailed it. ER's already treat all these people, so we're already footing the bill. Much of the projected savings comes from getting these people into a doctors care before they require some sort of life saving intervention in the ER. People will still abuse the system, go to ERs for nonsense, and not take care of themselves. Those people we paid for before and we will continue to pay for them. The goal of this legislation is to give the people who want to see a doctor before they need a doctor the means to do so.

[EMSer 15]

There things in this bill i like and things i dislike, especially on the issue of abortion. All in all i think Americans are over reacting. Medicare, Civil Rights and Social Security...all issues people were flipping out about when those bills were being passed...

I'm not going to get into too much details about my feelings towards this bill, but i will say that health care reform was needed, but not everything is this bill i believe will HELP.

As an ems volunteer and a non union employee speaking to many FF/LEO's and other UNIONIZED employees - youre unions are PROVEN to be far worse than this bill. If you are in a union, you do NOT have the right to speak against this bill as your UNION leaders have added input towards this bill. Every union in America has had consideration put into this bill and the majority of UNIONS financially "support" Obama and his Liberal friends. You want change in this Country, get your UNIONS out of the pockets of the Liberals. Most people on this website are NOT Liberal, yet their UNION fees support Liberals!!! WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!

[gamewell45 258]

As an ems volunteer and a non union employee speaking to many FF/LEO's and other UNIONIZED employees - youre unions are PROVEN to be far worse than this bill. If you are in a union, you do NOT have the right to speak against this bill as your UNION leaders have added input towards this bill. Every union in America has had consideration put into this bill and the majority of UNIONS financially "support" Obama and his Liberal friends. You want change in this Country, get your UNIONS out of the pockets of the Liberals. Most people on this website are NOT Liberal, yet their UNION fees support Liberals!!! WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!

EMSer'; Let me remind you that the First Amendment allows for freedom of speech no matter whether your union or non-union contrary to what you maintain. Furthermore, the unions are comprised of the employees and as such they run themselves and make their own decisions on how to spend their monies and who to support. If the rank and file are unhappy, they'll make changes legally in the union leadership at election time. Unless you've conducted a poll on this website on people's political beliefs, your statement on political persuasion here has no credibility.

[FireMedic049 597]

If you are in a union, you do NOT have the right to speak against this bill as your UNION leaders have added input towards this bill.

WRONG! As a citizen of this Country, our union membership DOES NOT preclude our right to speak for or against this or any bill.

Every union in America has had consideration put into this bill and the majority of UNIONS financially "support" Obama and his Liberal friends.

So what's your beef here? Is it that you feel underrepresented? If that's the case, then you have some options: 1) Talk to your elected legislators. If they aren't representing your interests, then vote them out of office. 2) Maybe you should consider unionizing.

You want change in this Country, get your UNIONS out of the pockets of the Liberals. Most people on this website are NOT Liberal, yet their UNION fees support Liberals!!! WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!

So what does the percentage of non-liberals on this web site have to do with the discussion? Additionally, "UNION fees" have not been used to "support Liberals". Prior to the Supreme Courts recent decision regarding campaign finance, it was illegal to utilize Union Fees (aka Dues) for political purposes. In order to support political candidates monetarily, a Union (or any other organization) needed to form a Political Action Committee (PAC), which is legally a separate entity from the organization itself. Contributions to the PAC from the union members are entirely voluntary.

As I mentioned, the recent Supreme Court decision has changed the rules some and Unions will be allowed to utilize "General Fund" money (not all of which comes from Dues) for political purposes in some fashion. However, it should be noted that this change will have far less effect on the political process than major corporations now being able to directly give money to candidates as a result of this ruling. Who do we get to thank for this?

Well, of the current 9 Justices, 6 were appointed by Republican Presidents and 3 by Democratic Presidents. So, if one subscribes to what appears to be the current concept that "Liberal" means Democrat and "Conservative" means Republican, then.................

Just a note, Unions do support more than just "Liberals", at least mine does.

[antiquefirelt 994]

I will give you that the IAFF has openly supported Democrats in every national election since before I was a member. They never asked us a damn thing, they just used us numbers as political weight. Oddly, it is often said the IAFF is one of the largest unions made up of mostly republicans. Nonetheless, while the IAFF may not give campaign funds directly, the bright yellow IAFF support t-shirts featured prominently in every democratic presidential rally in the last election. But your railing that the Union's bring more harm is slightly misplaced. The unions must do whatever they can to assist their members as employees, just not necessarily as taxpayers. Not to mention supporting Obama care, normally would be likely to help with another union cause down the road, though I think this road will be ending at the end of this term.

[PEMO3 523]

Just wait for the other shoe to drop. They will soon need to create another government agency and fund it to track those with and without insurance, administer the "fines" and programs the bill created.

[gamewell45 258]

Just wait for the other shoe to drop. They will soon need to create another government agency and fund it to track those with and without insurance, administer the "fines" and programs the bill created.

Much like the Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC), which the government created during the great depression; it took people off the bread line and put them back to work. I'm sure those who can't find work right now would welcome any creation of this type.

[Goose 188]

Just wait for the other shoe to drop. They will soon need to create another government agency and fund it to track those with and without insurance, administer the "fines" and programs the bill created.

Exactly. And the government cant even run the current social welfare programs properly. The only refreshing part of this bill is that many of the democrats just put a bullet in any hope of re-election in November (besides, this is all cyclical...midterm party majorities always flip flop).

[Goose 188]

Much like the Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC), which the government created during the great depression; it took people off the bread line and put them back to work. I'm sure those who can't find work right now would welcome any creation of this type.

You do realize that the only thing that got this country out of the great depression was World War II. Much of the New Deal was ineffective...

[EMSer 15]

Maybe you should consider unionizing.

Ha! Not a chance

[ladder55 26]

At the plate, health care reform. On deck, immigration reform. No telling where thi is heading but can't be good for us average Joe's. I know Obama said illegal immigrants would not be covered under his health care bill but its odd to me the next task is immigration reform and rights. Maybe if they vote against the volunteer incentive bill the country will be OK.

[EMSer 15]

At the plate, health care reform. On deck, immigration reform. No telling where thi is heading but can't be good for us average Joe's. I know Obama said illegal immigrants would not be covered under his health care bill but its odd to me the next task is immigration reform and rights. Maybe if they vote against the volunteer incentive bill the country will be OK.

once obama's immigration reform kicks in, illegals simply have to "admit to entering the country illegally. after that, they're citizens...

every month a citizen does not have health coverage that citizen will be fined 1/12th the annual fee for not having health coverage. The Dems admit this fee will be saved in the event an illegal needs medical attention

[antiquefirelt 994]

every month a citizen does not have health coverage that citizen will be fined 1/12th the annual fee for not having health coverage.

Here's where I get lost. How do they intend to collect said "fine" from those whom we are paying everything else for? Or is this just another tax on the actual working people who are not insured? The illegals already have the free healthcare given to all other US citizens: just show up and we'll treat you. Now we'll collect some money from those already paying enough to help expand these services to the same people but beyond ER visits. Going to the doctor will not make these people need less healthcare down the road, living a healthier life is the answer, and I'm willing to bet the number of people who would actually have done differently if they "just knew" is fairly small. Cause people don't already know smoking causes cancer and respiratory issues, or eating crap and not moving causes heart disease and stroke. yeah, add in some free visits to the clinic and we'll save money! Nice pipe dream.

[FireMedic049 597]

Ha! Not a chance

Why's that?

I have no problem with that being your choice, just curious as to why it is your choice.

[gamewell45 258]

You do realize that the only thing that got this country out of the great depression was World War II. Much of the New Deal was ineffective...

Not to get off topic too much but I don't think you can't point to it as the only thing; surely it played a major role, but to be fair everything combined including massive reform is what pulled us out of the depression.

[JimmyPFD 11]

Just wait for the other shoe to drop. They will soon need to create another government agency and fund it to track those with and without insurance, administer the "fines" and programs the bill created.

It would make sence to put that responsibility under CMS, (Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services) but I very strongly suspect your on point with this, ala Homeland Security.