Tactics; Fast Food Restraunts

[x129K 1,393]

Many departments have a fast food joint in their response area, but how many are REALLY familiar with the building? I don't mean how often do you eat there - I mean how well do you KNOW the building? Construction? How will it react in a case of a working fire in it? What chemicals and hazard are in it?

I have often heard these building referred to as "disposable structures"; poorly built, fast fire spread, heavy load on the roof, etc.

I have never fought a fire in one, but have several in my first due; McDonald's...Subway...etc.

Looking for your tips, tactics, experience, and knowledge.....

Edited March 21, 2010 by x129K

[64FFMJK 21]

My Dept. went on a walk through of a 5 story commercial building almost across the street from Station 5 last fall. In the 1st floor is Five Guys Burgers, A Pizza restaurant, and 3 vacant retail locations. Floors 2, 3 and 4 are Medical Offices with 3rd being Medical Records. Floor 5 is also Vacant. During our walk through give by the building owner we had full access to ALL areas of the building including Fire pump Shed, Roof, Kitchens, Electrical Rooms, and mechanical areas. One interesting thing we all took away from the tour was that in the area between the FDC and the alarm panel is a 1500 gallon Waste Oil tank for 5 Guys Burgers. We were surprised since the tank is centered on the far wall of the building as 5 Guys.

[abaduck 123]

"disposable structures" about sums it up; the site will be cleared and a new one thrown up in a month. Or they'll take the insurance and run. Think: do you want your lasting memorial to be a plaque in memory of Firefighter XXXX on the wall of an <expletive deleted> *McDonalds*???!!!

As for specific hazards, I'll throw one in: liquid nitrogen, anyone?

[16fire5 693]

Well this is a topic that can't be adequetely covered in a couple hundred words on here. Here are some things that come off the top of my head.

1. Risk Management-The whole thing will depend on if the place is opened or closed. If it's open some sort of interior attack will probably be necessary to attempt a primary search. After the joint has closed the only life hazard becomes us and any advanced fire the risk may very well outweight the benifit of interior attack.

2. Water supply- Lay in (don't count on somebody else to do it for you). 2 1/2 with a smooth bore is an excellent choice in commercial for a number of reasons. Great reach, absorbs lots of btu's, and is powerful so that is blows those ceiling tiles apart and penetrates to the fire.

3. Thermal Imaging Camera- The TIC is always important but at a commercial building where you have high ceilings it may be your first warning of heat build up above your head. A good tactic is to lift up a ceiling tile on entry and check the plenum for fire before you venture in too far below it. The TIC will help you stay orientated, find victims, keep track of your crew, and locating the fire).

4. In many cases we will be dealing with truss roofs so roof ops is out.

5. Consider using the search rope if you are entering without a handline.

6. A middle of the night fire in one of these buildings is a good canidate for a backdraft.

Most of the fires you will encounter in these buildings are duct fires which have different tactics. Lastly here is the link to a LODD report about a fire in a McDonald's in Houston Texas that occured in 2000. This tragic fire took the lives of two firefighters.

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/fire/reports/face200013.html

Edited March 21, 2010 by 16fire5

[x129K 1,393]

GREAT post - THANK YOU!

[Guest alsfirefighter]

They are disposable buildings if they are stand alone but you still have to account for anyone who may have been inside. Many where I work are 24 or near 24 hour operations now and for those that aren't..that's the time the cleaning crew and equipment maintenance people are in there and you have to do your best within the risk vs. management decision process.

Big water period. 2 1/2's and if you can...take your aerial master stream and get it ground level and shoot up and in...and (some will disagree) SMOOTH BORE!!! Know the GPM of your tip sizes...tactically I start with no less then 1 1/2" tip for master streams.

As far as a plaque...good luck. As I say in my classes when we talk tactics about these buildings..there won't even be a plaque and a kid will be eating a happy mean on top of where your a** died.

All I definitely know is this..my life and the guys I work with lives are not worth a building...particularly these types of buildings.

[Stepjam 118]

Excellent topic.

I know that in the past, a lot of these buildings were manufactured and then assembled on site. Lately, I have seen some recent addtions that appear to be stick-built frame structures. I wouldn't bet my life on it, but I would think that a fire in a frame would not spread as quickly as it would in a manufactured modular, which would light up like a trailer once it's vented.

Not to get too far OTS, but I was amused by 64FFMJK's post about the 5-Guys in Poughkeepsie. A couple of things came to mind about that place. Number one, if you are allergic to peanuts, don't even step inside the joint. Peanut oil seems to be everywhere as a light aerosol, and it coats everything in the place, giving it a distinct greasy feel. Actually, I think it's gross.

[jack10562 414]

Virtually all of these single story stand-alone fast food establishments are built using inexpensive light-weight truss construction.

Good rule of thumb is if the fire has extended outside of the exhaust ductwork and has been working more than ten minutes prior to your arrival, don't even go inside.

Odds are very high everyone is already out, anyway.

The HVAC air handlers up there on the roof are just waiting to come down.

Factor in ice and snow load, depending on location and season.

[jd783 64]

I agree with everything Jack said, I do contracting work for several MCd's in westchester/Rockland all free standing buildings are light weight construction (truss) most have a void space between new drop ceiling and old sheetrock ceiling. Mcdonalds goes through many changes over the years as the upgrade(ex new registers to take credit cards, new coffee machines) all these changes require plumbing and electrical work, most of this is run through the void space in the ceilings all MCD's are built on slabs(free standing) MCD's express can be put in a strip mall or taxpayer. If its on fire evacuate and go devensive

[wraftery 1,275]

Well this is a topic that can't be adequetely covered in a couple hundred words on here. Here are some things that come off the top of my head.

1. Risk Management-The whole thing will depend on if the place is opened or closed. If it's open some sort of interior attack will probably be necessary to attempt a primary search. After the joint has closed the only life hazard becomes us and any advanced fire the risk may very well outweight the benifit of interior attack.

2. Water supply- Lay in (don't count on somebody else to do it for you). 2 1/2 with a smooth bore is an excellent choice in commercial for a number of reasons. Great reach, absorbs lots of btu's, and is powerful so that is blows those ceiling tiles apart and penetrates to the fire.

3. Thermal Imaging Camera- The TIC is always important but at a commercial building where you have high ceilings it may be your first warning of heat build up above your head. A good tactic is to lift up a ceiling tile on entry and check the plenum for fire before you venture in too far below it. The TIC will help you stay orientated, find victims, keep track of your crew, and locating the fire).

4. In many cases we will be dealing with truss roofs so roof ops is out.

5. Consider using the search rope if you are entering without a handline.

6. A middle of the night fire in one of these buildings is a good canidate for a backdraft.

Most of the fires you will encounter in these buildings are duct fires which have different tactics. Lastly here is the link to a LODD report about a fire in a McDonald's in Houston Texas that occured in 2000. This tragic fire took the lives of two firefighters.

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/fire/reports/face200013.html

Good post, Lieu. Not much to add to that. I did note the 2 1/2 as the first lin in. Too often that1 3/4 is pulled because "we always start with it" When should you pull that 2 1/2? You'll konw when, so don't fight your common sense and go for the smaller line.

[ny10570 745]

In February 2000 2 Houston firefighters died while fighting a fire in a McDonalds. The NIOSH report highlights much of what has already been addressed here, but is still worth reading.

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/fire/reports/face200013.html

[robert benz 344]

In February 2000 2 Houston firefighters died while fighting a fire in a McDonalds. The NIOSH report highlights much of what has already been addressed here, but is still worth reading.

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/fire/reports/face200013.html

In the early 80's when McDonalds went to the new style buildings, they started using truss const. I was told in classes that this type (lightweight truss) was now refered to as Mcdonalds construction. So 30 yrs goes by and firefighters have to die in a lightweight building. It has been told to me that the Fire Dept knew not to send members ONTO the roof of the fire building (McDonalds) because of the truss construction, but sent members UNDER the roof into the building. The roof did what it was expected to do and members died. We have to be smarter than this.

As a side note it has also been passed down to me that McDonalds does not carry fire insurance on their buildings. Dont know how true that is but if it is, they already know it is a disposable piece of property, and the only ones who care about saving anything will be us, treat it like a car fire, no life hazard, no reason to get anyone hurt for something that wont be recognizable by the end of the week.

[TCD0415 26]

As a side note it has also been passed down to me that McDonalds does not carry fire insurance on their buildings. Dont know how true that is but if it is, they already know it is a disposable piece of property, and the only ones who care about saving anything will be us, treat it like a car fire, no life hazard, no reason to get anyone hurt for something that wont be recognizable by the end of the week.

I have been told the same thing. As long as it has been confirmed that everyone is out, not worth risking anything. Hit it from afar........

[bigfitz2004 19]

The majority of these building do care carry fire insurance on their buildings because the cost of the equipment inside of the building.

[Rescue97 6]

This might sould a little nieve but let'em burn. Carmel fire department had a tough fire at a Wedney's. Most of these buildings are put together rather quickly with truss roofs and other simple construction techniques. But anyway they leveled the rest of the building and placed a new one up no longer then 6 months from when it happened. Of coarse if its possible try to put them out but its not worth risking ur own or anyone elses life over.

[johnvv 20]

In December 2008, I had the opportunity to assist in a live burn of a MCD's. The live burn was jointly conducted by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) and the Engineering Department of the University of North Carolina. The structure was constructed in the 1980's and had a wood truss roof. Heat measuring thermocouples were placed in the building and the entire structure was fully documented with sketches, measurements,video and photographs.The purpose for the live burn was to collect data on how these structures hold up under fire conditions. The results of the burn are to be part of a future NIST Report. The fire was started using ordinary combustibles in a garbage can in the managers office. This room was located in the center of the structure.

Its my estimation that the roof held up for approximately 15-20 minutes from the inception of the fire. I quite frankly expected the truss roof to fail earlier in the fire since the roof components were unprotected.

Attached are the photographs from my position on a roof top across the street from the MCD's.

[batt2 145]

Here are pics of a typical fast-food restaurant under construction.

[x129K 1,393]

EXCELLENT B2~! Thansk!

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

Here are pics of a typical fast-food restaurant under construction.

Are these photos of the Burger King on the highway by Yonkers Raceway/Cross County Mall?

[batt2 145]

Are these photos of the Burger King on the highway by Yonkers Raceway/Cross County Mall?

Yes. In addition to showing the trusswork of the roof you can see the method of construction of the soffit and can visualize fire travel during an incident...

Edited April 4, 2010 by batt2

[efdcapt115 1,511]

CHAPTER XXXIII - STATE FIRE PREVENTION AND BUILDING CODE COUNCIL

SUBCHAPTER C - OTHER REGULATIONS

PART 1264 - IDENTIFICATION OF BUILDINGS UTILIZING TRUSS TYPE CONSTRUCTION

§1264.1 Introduction.

Section 382-a of the Executive Law provides that commercial and industrial buildings and structures that utilize truss type construction shall be marked by a sign or symbol that informs persons conducting fire control and other emergency operations of the existence of truss construction. Section 382-a further directs the State Fire Prevention and Building Code Council to promulgate rules and regulations it deems necessary to carry into effect the provisions of the statute. This Part establishes certain requirements pertaining to the identification of buildings and structures that utilize truss type construction.

§1264.2 Enforcement.

(a) Subdivision 4 of section 382-a of the Executive Law directs local governments to provide for enforcement of the statute. Enforcement of section 382-a of the Executive Law shall include enforcement of the provisions of this Part. A fee of fifty dollars shall be paid by the owner of a building with truss type construction to the authority having jurisdiction for enforcement of section 382-a of the Executive Law prior to the issuance of a building permit.

() This Part shall not apply within a city with a population of one million or more persons.

§1264.3 Definition.

For the purposes of this Part, truss type construction shall mean a fabricated structure of wood or steel, made up of a series of members connected at their ends to form a series of triangles to span a distance greater than would be possible with any of the individual members on their own. Truss type construction shall not include:

(a) individual wind or seismic bracing components which form triangles when diagonally connected to the main structural system; and

() structural components that utilize solid plate web members.

§1264.4 Identification of truss type construction.

(a) Truss type construction shall be identified by a sign or signs in accordance with the provisions of this Part.

() Signs shall be affixed where a building or a portion thereof is classified as Group A, B, E, F, H, I, M, or S occupancy, and in hotels and motels classified as Group R-1 or R-2 occupancy, in accordance with the provisions for the classification of buildings set forth in chapter 3 of the Building Code of New York State (see 19 NYCRR Part 1221).

© Signs shall be provided in newly constructed buildings that utilize truss type construction and in existing buildings where an addition that extends or increases the floor area of the building utilizes truss type construction. Signs shall be affixed prior to the issuance of a certificate of occupancy or a certificate of compliance.

(d) Signs identifying the existence of truss construction shall consist of a circle 6 inches (152.4 mm) in diameter, with a stroke width of ½ inch (12.7 mm). The sign background shall be reflective white in color. The circle and contents shall be reflective red in color, conforming to Pantone matching system (PMS) #187. Where a sign is directly applied to a door or sidelight, it may be a permanent non-fading sticker or decal. Signs not directly applied to doors or sidelights shall be of sturdy, non-fading, weather resistant material.

(e) Signs identifying the existence of truss construction shall contain the roman alphanumeric designation of the construction type of the building, in accordance with the provisions for the classification of types of construction set forth in section 602 of the Building Code of New York State (see 19 NYCRR Part 1221), and an alphabetic designation for the structural components that are of truss construction, as follows: “F” shall mean floor framing, including girders and beams “R” shall mean roof framing “FR” shall mean floor and roof framing The construction type designation shall be placed at the twelve o’clock position over the structural component designation, which shall be placed at the six o’clock position.

(f) Signs identifying the existence of truss construction shall be affixed in the locations specified in Table I-1264.

TABLE I-1264 TRUSS IDENTIFICATION SIGN LOCATIONS

Sign location Sign placement

Exterior building entrance doors, exterior exit discharge doors, and exterior roof access doors to a stairway Attached to the door, or attached to a sidelight or the face of the building, not more than 12 inches (305 mm) horizontally from the latch side of the door jamb, and not less than 42 inches (1067 mm) nor more than 60 inches (1524 mm) above the adjoining walking surface.

Multiple contiguous exterior building entrance or exit discharge doors Attached at each end of the row of doors and at a maximum horizontal distance of 12 feet (3.65M) between signs, and not less than 42 inches (1067 mm) nor more than 60 inches (1524 mm) above the adjoining walking surface.

Fire department hose connections Attached to the face of the building, not more than 12 inches (305 mm) horizontally from the center line of the fire department hose connection, and not less than 42 inches (1067 mm) nor more than 60 inches (1524 mm) above the adjoining walking surface.

http://www.dos.state.ny.us/code/part1264.htm