CME's vs. Refresher Course

[PFDRes47cue 653]

I am just curious as to people opinions for how to renew an EMT Certification. I know a lot of people take the CME path and attend endless hours of lecture to refresh. I have not needed to refresh yet but I plan on taking a refresher course to do so. I feel that the refresher course is the best option and is also less time consuming. The refresher course also seems to be more to the point while CME credits can be obtained by sitting in on lectures for various topics, some of which may not pertain much to the duties of being an EMT. Also, my understanding is that CME courses are not hands on, making a refresher course more beneficial to the EMT because it allows him/her to test their skills. I know that in my VAC, we are doing away with the CME program, meaning our members will no longer be able to put CME credits towards refreshing their EMT certificate. I am just interested to hear others peoples takes on preference. Pros and cons of both...

[Guest alsfirefighter]

I am just curious as to people opinions for how to renew an EMT Certification. I know a lot of people take the CME path and attend endless hours of lecture to refresh. I have not needed to refresh yet but I plan on taking a refresher course to do so. I feel that the refresher course is the best option and is also less time consuming. The refresher course also seems to be more to the point while CME credits can be obtained by sitting in on lectures for various topics, some of which may not pertain much to the duties of being an EMT. Also, my understanding is that CME courses are not hands on, making a refresher course more beneficial to the EMT because it allows him/her to test their skills. I know that in my VAC, we are doing away with the CME program, meaning our members will no longer be able to put CME credits towards refreshing their EMT certificate. I am just interested to hear others peoples takes on preference. Pros and cons of both...

Which is better time wise could be debated. If you challenge the recert course well it might save some time, however the CME hours aren't "endless" as all providers need 72 hours in 3 years. If you space it out it equates to 24 hours per year and with the lectures, conferences, courses that are out there, its pretty easy. The CME's you do depends on what you do and attend and I'm not sure what your seeing in regard to attending CME's that do not pertain to the duties of being an EMT, but it sounds rather odd if an agency/CIC signing off are seeing such things and allowing it. I'd be interested in some ideas of what your referring to that is being allowed that has nothing to do with your duties as an EMT. As far as the hands on goes that's not entirely true, there are hands on CME's out there and doing courses like PHTLS and AMLS are great ways to achieve CME's in bulk and give hands on. In addition its the agency's responsibility to ensure that their personnel are proficient in their skills and if you look at the CME recert sheets that have to be submitted to the DOH there is a "skills competency verification" section that the medical director or training officer has to sign off that they are proficient at providing their skills and how that has been established either by QA/QI or by direct observation. Even if this wasn't a requirement, doesn't it come down to the agency knowing their personnel's abilities and lack there of? Just because the state issues a card saying their an EMT doesn't mean its equating to good patient care on the street and hence the agency should be helping them with additional training and/or supervision on the road. You can't blame the recert process for that.

As far as attending endless hours of CME's, I guess that's subjective considering you have to spend "endless" hours in a refresher course. I like the flexibility of the CME's versus having to attend a refresher course on set times. I like how I can find CME topics that are a little outside the box or in more detailed then how it is in the state curriculum. Also

I can tell you one thing, if I was a member of your VAC...I'd be going elsewhere to find a place where I can maximize my time to do my recert via CME.

[ckroll 101]

.... I am just interested to hear others peoples takes on preference. Pros and cons of both...

At first blush it sounds as if you've made up mind. If the question is 'What is the absolute least I have to do to re-certify?' then that is different from asking 'How do I improve my skills and enhance my education?' I would suggest you find instructors who energize you and take what they have to offer be it CME or standard format.

One can attend CME's and conferences of interest if basic training seems lacking. What I like about CME's is the opportunity to hear different perspectives on patent care. I also like the ability to go on line if I feel I need refreshing or better information on a topic, learn something and then use that towards re-certifying. EMT certification is mostly just a license to teach yourself the craft.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

At first blush it sounds as if you've made up mind. If the question is 'What is the absolute least I have to do to re-certify?' then that is different from asking 'How do I improve my skills and enhance my education?' I would suggest you find instructors who energize you and take what they have to offer be it CME or standard format.

One can attend CME's and conferences of interest if basic training seems lacking. What I like about CME's is the opportunity to hear different perspectives on patent care. I also like the ability to go on line if I feel I need refreshing or better information on a topic, learn something and then use that towards re-certifying. EMT certification is mostly just a license to teach yourself the craft.

Looking for the easy way is completely not what I do in any aspect of life. I am not saying I want to take a refresher course because it is less time consuming. I never do the minimum when it comes to training. Even being away for school and completing a double major and a minor, I still manage to do way more than the minimum...I was just saying things and opinions that I hear about the two options. I was looking to learn more about both options and pros and cons of both. This post is not about me and what I will do, it is about learning about both options

[Healz 30]

I have been an EMT since 1974 and have taken Recert courses and CMEs.

I personally got more from the participation of a Recert course. It is more hands on then sitting at a lecture or in front of a computer. I enjoy tossing around a subject and getting as much in put as possible. Recert courses bring together more people and generally a more diverse group. Yes EMT courses were allot tougher in the old days it was more intensive and a true anatomy course. Most of the reading on the subject matter was done outside the classroom so you were well versed in the subject when the discussion took place in the class. this was after a test was given about past covered subjects. You also performed in front of the instructors and were judged each and every thing you did during assessments and other evolutions. During the first 6 weeks we lost over 20% of the class because they could not keep up with this curriculum. This may be due to bad study habits, motivation or maturity as many young people including myself were in the class. If this was done today 70% of each class would be lost and if CME was the only way to study for EMT tests 90% would fail.

Over the years I have seen to many people that are unqualified to be EMTs.

Let me explain, many EMTs do not use the correct terminology for simple terms that used to be standard. While terminology may seem a small thing it is the method that we transfer information to each other clearly. The written word on reports must be clear and undisputable. Another thing if you are not tested for the subject matter then you are not familiar with it. If you are just a warm body signing an attendance sheet you are not getting the training and this is what is going on in this State. The State should have instructors that are paid well and teach in geological areas where they don't live or serve. These instructors can also test for physical and legal compliance that is not being done now. Everyone know EMTs that cannot fulfill the physical aspects of being an EMT this could be pickup by testing from state instructors that is not being done now. There isn't anyone out there that hasn't heard "Oh I have a bad back, so I can't help you lift the patient". You are endangering your patient, your crew, and your agency. Drivers should also be capable of handling patients and have a minimum amount of training. Writing reports 101 should be part of the training, not study how to write reports, actual writing of situational reports. There is so much wrong with NYSBOH training CMEs its hard to know where to start.

Sorry I got off subject a little

[ny10570 745]

Wether its through CME or refresher you will only get as much as you want to out of it. You can find plenty of hands on, obscure topic, or just CMEs that cover areas you think you're weak. Refresher, you're just covering the same info you covered 3 years ago. You can read the EMT textbook and do that. As for the nulk of your hands on training, that has to be done and maintained in house. The state stuff is just an intro. I'm still waiting for the MVA where I can immobilize my patient working right in front of them while they calmly tell me which toe I'm touching. Something as simple as fracture immobilization they teach you plenty about mid shaft, but what about a broken wrist. More than one new EMT has tried to place that cravat across the wrist like we do for forearm fractures. Bad idea and the patient will make that very clear. How about your traction splints? I'm unusual in that I did 3 in 2 years. Even then, each time I missed a step that I had to go back and correct. Each time it went on right and in a timely manner, but it could have been smoother. I know plenty of people who haven't touched one since their last refresher.

If you're really the self starter you say you are then you should be fighting to keep PVAC accepting CMEs. If you're doing more than the minimum and pushing your knowledge wile maintaining fundamentals then the refresher is just going to be a waste of your time.

[WAS967 97]

I prefer to go the challenge refresher class. I find the CME route annoying for two reasons: 1) Most lectures are only 1-2 hours and they always seem to be on days that I work. I work 60+ hours a week just to make ends meet so I really can't take a lot of days off to attend CMEs. If they had a self study option that met the core requirements then I might be more interested in going the CME route and 2) You have to attend CMEs on certain topics to meet the different requirements of the CME recerts. I can attend a challenge CME and meet all these requirements in a single structured class than have to sit down with a schedule to figure out what classes I still need and when. I can go in, take the tests, do some take home work, sit in on a few lectures and labs, and have all my core requirements on the same piece of paper.

For me the challenge recert is a matter of convenience, not laziness. I do a lot of studying and research to keep my knowledge up, and then some.

In the end it comes down to what works best for the individual. Everyone will have different needs.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

I have been an EMT since 1974 and have taken Recert courses and CMEs.

Over the years I have seen to many people that are unqualified to be EMTs.

Let me explain, many EMTs do not use the correct terminology for simple terms that used to be standard. While terminology may seem a small thing it is the method that we transfer information to each other clearly. The written word on reports must be clear and undisputable. Another thing if you are not tested for the subject matter then you are not familiar with it. If you are just a warm body signing an attendance sheet you are not getting the training and this is what is going on in this State. The State should have instructors that are paid well and teach in geological areas where they don't live or serve. These instructors can also test for physical and legal compliance that is not being done now. Everyone know EMTs that cannot fulfill the physical aspects of being an EMT this could be pickup by testing from state instructors that is not being done now. There isn't anyone out there that hasn't heard "Oh I have a bad back, so I can't help you lift the patient". You are endangering your patient, your crew, and your agency. Drivers should also be capable of handling patients and have a minimum amount of training. Writing reports 101 should be part of the training, not study how to write reports, actual writing of situational reports. There is so much wrong with NYSBOH training CMEs its hard to know where to start.

Sorry I got off subject a little

Its not necessarily that EMT's aren't using "correct" terminology but the terminology that is correct for them as the curriculum now teaches. "Long bone fracture" of the leg to us..is a femur fracture. Also I'm sorry and its what I pointed out in my original post, with the CME recert it is the responsibility of the agency to ensure that those providing care are competent what they do. I know of EMT's and Medics who I work with who pass the tests with flying colors and can't wrap a BP cuff the right way..so then what? How is an EMT who can't lift not being picked up by instructors now? They have to take an initial and guess what...if you're doing a recert you may not have to do any stations that requires lifting and how many instructors out there are going to rip a card away from someone at a recert? Again this is an agency problem and anyone who has issues with such a person has the right to report the issue to the DOH BEMS. Now as far as having instructors who teach in areas they don't live or serve I don't see again how this is beneficial. I am a fire instructor in the area I once lived and still serve...it doesn't effect my responsibilities what so ever.

I actually see the pluses of the CME programs...maybe I'm lucky because I have access to interesting and insightful instructors who I work with to deliver out of the box and more in depth interesting and educating CME's as well when I have the opportunity to do so. But the problem as I see it and as I've now read a couple of times on here is "the state" "the state" "the state." How about my agency, my agency, agency.