Yonkers 4th Alarm 3/11/2010

[Truck4 48]

-Finishing the IA

-More pics later

[x129K 1,393]

Hope Billy F was working...thats a HELLUVA birthday Present!

[x635 4,066]

AWESOME PHOTO!

[rfdu39 89]

I could see the smoke from this fire from the back parking lot of the doctors office that I work at. BTW truck 4 do you drive a red car?

[Mac8146 61]

Was on my way home and came upon the fire took a few shots.

[Mac8146 61]

Another view

[joshlost818 6]

Some good footage on lohud

Lohud

[Mac8146 61]

Water flowing into top floor

[Mac8146 61]

Still pushing the heavy smoke throughout the cornice and top floor

[Mac8146 61]

Fire starting to vent through the roof

[Mac8146 61]

Last picture I took as I had to leave, fire still roaring in cockloft and top floor, taken from north side of fire.

Edited March 12, 2010 by Mac8146

[PEMO3 523]

The fact that YFD was able to hold this fire to the original fire building with no extension to the exposures and no injuries to members or civilians is amazing. Reports were people trapped and from what I have heard a few heroic rescues of residents occurred. KUDOS to YFD for a job well done!!

[spyda308 11]

#4 side of the building, the #4 exposure is a vacant.

[X2321 133]

Some photos from the Yonkers job http://jukebox.lohud.com/photos/refers/index.php?gallery=Yonkers%20fire%2003-11-10

[JBE 328]

Nice shots guys..

[Truck4 48]

Last picture I took as I had to leave, fire still roaring in cockloft and top floor, taken from north side of fire.

Little camera did good!

[redman 2]

What's up with the fog nozzle on TL71

[bigfitz2004 19]

If I remember right there was a other multi-alarm at 64 Elliot Ave. in the early 90?

[Oswegowind 17]

Not so used to the 4:30pm calls for a building fire...Got a little nuts for a few. We actually had an extra dispatcher in the 911 center because of a regular schedule overlap. FD got there quick, so did PD cars that were in the area and saw the fire. Great job containing it, those buildings might as well be attached because they are about 2-3 feet separated but usually it isn't somewhere you wanna go in between. Resources were requested quickly and efficiently, and we utilized the entire 3rd pct for street closures and crowd control as well as 1 2nd pct car. We had been busy lately in the evening, however it wasn't so bad after the fire was at a holding pattern, the usual callers stayed off the phones (amazingly!). Glad that no one got hurt. Although I was on PD 2, I was using the County M/A Trunked Radio to listen to the Fireground. When they resumed interior ops, I heard them talking about 3 feet of water in apts on the top floor and the necessity to drain it. I have never seen this condition, but can imagine that would be one of the top reasons buildings collapse during fire. 3 feet is a small pool, unless it is in a 100 x 100 OMD's top floor no? I'm actually not sure of the dimensions of the building, but it seems it could be at least 75 x 75. Like I said, Good job to both departments and thanks for the help with the M/A 60. Happy Birthday Chief! And now, I gotta get going, taking my son Matt to see the YFD SOD stuff.

[GFD505 0]

I am trying to view the pics and it keeps saying there is an error. Does anyone have the same problem? How do I fix it?

[BFarr156 0]

Hope Billy F was working...thats a HELLUVA birthday Present!

Dan,

Check your FB, I sent you a message.

Billy

Edited March 12, 2010 by BFarr156

[billfitz 109]

What's up with the fog nozzle on TL71

Companies ride with fog nozzle attached to be used primarily for exposure protection - for cockloft operations they switched to the solid stream as they did here later on.

[chris 18]

I am trying to view the pics and it keeps saying there is an error. Does anyone have the same problem? How do I fix it?

I am having the same problem.

[BFD1054 1,552]

Wow, nice shots guys!

I first heard of this on Snews 12 last night (they reported a 5th alarm). 4th alarm in the Y-O, must have been some job!

From the shots the guys have shared, kudos go out to the YFD/YPD/Empress!

YFD did a hell of a job with what they were faced with.

Hope the Mayor and City Council were paying attention!

Edited March 12, 2010 by BFD1054

[helicopper 1,050]

The fact that YFD was able to hold this fire to the original fire building with no extension to the exposures and no injuries to members or civilians is amazing. Reports were people trapped and from what I have heard a few heroic rescues of residents occurred. KUDOS to YFD for a job well done!!

Date: 03-11-10

Time: 1633hrs

Location: 66 Elliot Ave X Post St/Morris St.

Weather Conditions: Cloud

Description Of Incident: Fire in a 4-story ordinary OMD.

Writer: Truck4 (O/S)

Mutual Aid and Cover Units:

Station 1: Hartsdale Engine, Greenville 150, Eastchester TL17

Station 12: New Rochelle 22, New Rochelle L-12, Safety, Yonkers B-3

Station 4: Yonkers L-75

1634hrs- R-1 rpts smoke showing from a distance. Fire control advising numerous calls. E-304 became available and added to assignment.

1st Alarm: E-304, 303, 306, 308, 307; L-74, 71, B-1, R-1, Safety

1635hrs- R-1, B-1 on scene transmitting 10-29/10-30.

1636hrs- L-74 has people on the fire escapes. E-307 to hit hydrant on Broadway X Post.

1638hrs- B-1 transmitting 2nd Alarm.

2nd Alarm: E-309/L-72

1644hrs- B-1 transmitting 3rd Alarm.

3rd Alarm: E312, 313; L-73

1655hrs- 4th Alarm transmitted. Heavy fire into the cockloft and top floor.

4th Alarm: E-310, E314; L70; SQ11

1720hrs- M/A Hartsdale Engine, Greenvile E-150, Eastchester L-17 to Station #1. New Rochelle E-22, L-12 and Safety to Station #12.

1730hrs- Car 2 rpts (1) Tower Ladder (71) and (1) Ladder pipe (74) in operation in front. Handlines operating from the roof of Exposure #2 and #4. All companies still working.

1800hrs- Car 2 rpts fire is K/D.

1830hrs- Yonkers reserve E-316 to Station 12 to relieve E-22. E-315 to Station 1 to relieve mutual aid engine.

There've been many discussions on this board about the pros/cons, advantages/disadvantages, etc. of various staffing configurations and response times. Here's a great example of what can be done (numerous rescues and, as PEM03 said, preventing extension to exposures) when you respond with a full complement of qualified personnel in a timely fashion. It also highlights the benefits of training, pre-planning, and discipline to make sure that the two first and second due ladder companies were able to set up at the front of the fire building.

On the initial call there were (approximately)32 +/- fully qualified "interior" firefighters managed by at least one Chief and seven or eight company officers. I guess we can forget the 4 in 4 or 10 in 20.

The second alarm and third alarms brought (again approximately) 20 more firefighters plus officers to the scene and the fourth brough still another 16 plus officers. This doesn't count the support services that were undoubtedly involved (mask service, fleet maintenance, etc., etc.)

All this was in the first 22 minutes - sixty-eight firefighters plus officers and support. Add EMS and at least a dozen police officers and supervisors too.

The other interesting note in the IA (great one BTW Truck4 and you still managed to get pictures!) is that the mutual aid was relieved by reserve apparatus staffed by recalled firefighters so as not to hold equipment out of its home jurisdiction for a protracted period of time. How many departments have the apparatus to do that or organize their own personnel to release mutual aid instead of holding everyone at the scene. Didn't a recent thread on the subject of staffing say something about having 50-60 firefighters on the scene of a fire in a single family dwelling? How many weren't working and could have been deployed to other apparatus to increase available resources in that community?

I don't understand why instead of aspiring to meet NFPA and other standards, we buck them with all kinds of excuses and then criticize those who advocate a single standard to raise the bar and improve things for everyone.

Given the proximity of the exposures, narrow one-way street in front and limited access from other sides, it was indeed an impressive stop.

Before the nitpicking begins, the times and numbers are all approximated.

[61MACKBR1 222]

Not so used to the 4:30pm calls for a building fire...Got a little nuts for a few. We actually had an extra dispatcher in the 911 center because of a regular schedule overlap. FD got there quick, so did PD cars that were in the area and saw the fire. Great job containing it, those buildings might as well be attached because they are about 2-3 feet separated but usually it isn't somewhere you wanna go in between. Resources were requested quickly and efficiently, and we utilized the entire 3rd pct for street closures and crowd control as well as 1 2nd pct car. We had been busy lately in the evening, however it wasn't so bad after the fire was at a holding pattern, the usual callers stayed off the phones (amazingly!). Glad that no one got hurt. Although I was on PD 2, I was using the County M/A Trunked Radio to listen to the Fireground. When they resumed interior ops, I heard them talking about 3 feet of water in apts on the top floor and the necessity to drain it. I have never seen this condition, but can imagine that would be one of the top reasons buildings collapse during fire. 3 feet is a small pool, unless it is in a 100 x 100 OMD's top floor no? I'm actually not sure of the dimensions of the building, but it seems it could be at least 75 x 75. Like I said, Good job to both departments and thanks for the help with the M/A 60. Happy Birthday Chief! And now, I gotta get going, taking my son Matt to see the YFD SOD stuff.

Oswegowind - Glad to see that your son is a YFD Buff. I am sure that he will enjoy himself. (Maybe YFD SOD has that new Dunkin Donuts Coffee Machine installed by now and you can enjoy a fresh cup?)

[JFLYNN 681]

There've been many discussions on this board about the pros/cons, advantages/disadvantages, etc. of various staffing configurations and response times. Here's a great example of what can be done (numerous rescues and, as PEM03 said, preventing extension to exposures) when you respond with a full complement of qualified personnel in a timely fashion. It also highlights the benefits of training, pre-planning, and discipline to make sure that the two first and second due ladder companies were able to set up at the front of the fire building.

On the initial call there were (approximately)32 +/- fully qualified "interior" firefighters managed by at least one Chief and seven or eight company officers. I guess we can forget the 4 in 4 or 10 in 20.

The second alarm and third alarms brought (again approximately) 20 more firefighters plus officers to the scene and the fourth brough still another 16 plus officers. This doesn't count the support services that were undoubtedly involved (mask service, fleet maintenance, etc., etc.)

All this was in the first 22 minutes - sixty-eight firefighters plus officers and support. Add EMS and at least a dozen police officers and supervisors too.

The other interesting note in the IA (great one BTW Truck4 and you still managed to get pictures!) is that the mutual aid was relieved by reserve apparatus staffed by recalled firefighters so as not to hold equipment out of its home jurisdiction for a protracted period of time. How many departments have the apparatus to do that or organize their own personnel to release mutual aid instead of holding everyone at the scene. Didn't a recent thread on the subject of staffing say something about having 50-60 firefighters on the scene of a fire in a single family dwelling? How many weren't working and could have been deployed to other apparatus to increase available resources in that community?

I don't understand why instead of aspiring to meet NFPA and other standards, we buck them with all kinds of excuses and then criticize those who advocate a single standard to raise the bar and improve things for everyone.

Given the proximity of the exposures, narrow one-way street in front and limited access from other sides, it was indeed an impressive stop.

Before the nitpicking begins, the times and numbers are all approximated.

Thanks Chris. Exellent points. Just for clarification our additional alarms are normally 2 Engines and 1 Truck so that would be only 12 people total (all companies are staffed by 1 Officer and 3 Firefighters). The remaining Battalion Chief with his Aide (there are two on duty at all times) and the on call Deputy (no aide) come with the second alarm so the second alarm would actually have 15 members and all additional alarms would have 12 members.

We call mutual aide once we go below 3 Engines and 2 Ladders in the City and we do try to get them back to their municipality as soon as possible by freeing up in service companies as well as recalling off duty members to man spare apparatus which are normally equipped and ready to go. We also call in an off duty Battalion Chief with Aide to man a spare Battalion car and cover the city once we go to a third alarm. One thing we are lacking which we have been fighting for years for is 24 / 7 Fire Department supervision of the civilain Fire Dispatchers which would really help in situations like last night. There was a lot of scrambling behind the scenes to keep the city adequately covered, as well as get our off duty members in and out the door on the spares, send the mutual aid back, rotate fresh crews to the fire scene, transport injured or exhausted members etc. while at the same time maintaining accountability of everyone and everything....thanks to the mutual aid departments who came in as well as cooperation from union leaders, off duty members, etc. this was all handled pretty well last night.

Although you point out the benefits of certain aspects of our manning and organization, I would state that we are actually at a bare minimum right now and I couldn't imagine what would happen if we were forced to operate with less companies, less manning on the companies, or less staffing on the administrative side.

[x635 4,066]

I am trying to view the pics and it keeps saying there is an error. Does anyone have the same problem? How do I fix it?

This issue should now be corrected. Please let me know if you can now see the pics.

[helicopper 1,050]

Thanks Chris. Exellent points. Just for clarification our additional alarms are normally 2 Engines and 1 Truck so that would be only 12 people total (all companies are staffed by 1 Officer and 3 Firefighters). The remaining Battalion Chief with his Aide (there are two on duty at all times) and the on call Deputy (no aide) come with the second alarm so the second alarm would actually have 15 members and all additional alarms would have 12 members.

We call mutual aide once we go below 3 Engines and 2 Ladders in the City and we do try to get them back to their municipality as soon as possible by freeing up in service companies as well as recalling off duty members to man spare apparatus which are normally equipped and ready to go. We also call in an off duty Battalion Chief with Aide to man a spare Battalion car and cover the city once we go to a third alarm. One thing we are lacking which we have been fighting for years for is 24 / 7 Fire Department supervision of the civilain Fire Dispatchers which would really help in situations like last night. There was a lot of scrambling behind the scenes to keep the city adequately covered, as well as get our off duty members in and out the door on the spares, send the mutual aid back, rotate fresh crews to the fire scene, transport injured or exhausted members etc. while at the same time maintaining accountability of everyone and everything....thanks to the mutual aid departments who came in as well as cooperation from union leaders, off duty members, etc. this was all handled pretty well last night.

Although you point out the benefits of certain aspects of our manning and organization, I would state that we are actually at a bare minimum right now and I couldn't imagine what would happen if we were forced to operate with less companies, less manning on the companies, or less staffing on the administrative side.

Thanks for correcting my numbers. Am I correct in saying that every engine and all but one ladder were committed to this fire? Any other job, small or large, would have required putting the mutual aid to work?

This is without Ridge Hill or any other devleopment being completed and placing additional demands on the City's resources. Is it also safe to assume that when confronted by a multiple alarm fire you stop responding on medical emergencies anywhere in the City? So the taxpayer on the east side can't get CFR's on scene in 3-4 minutes because the city has opted to play roulette with their safety by continuing cuts to the FD and PD.

[61MACKBR1 222]

Thanks for correcting my numbers. Am I correct in saying that every engine and all but one ladder were committed to this fire? Any other job, small or large, would have required putting the mutual aid to work?

This is without Ridge Hill or any other devleopment being completed and placing additional demands on the City's resources. Is it also safe to assume that when confronted by a multiple alarm fire you stop responding on medical emergencies anywhere in the City? So the taxpayer on the east side can't get CFR's on scene in 3-4 minutes because the city has opted to play roulette with their safety by continuing cuts to the FD and PD.

Chris - You raise an excellent point above. Yes, from my read on the accounts of yesterday's 4 Alarm Fire in Yonkers, all Engine Companies (303, 304, 306, 307,308,309,310, SQ 11, 312, 313, and 314) were dispatched to the scene of the fire, as were all but 1 Ladder Company (70, 71, 72, 73, & 74) along with Rescue 1. Ladder 75 was relocated to Station 4. Mutual Aid Companies were assigned to Station 1 (Hartsdale Engine, Greenvile Engine and Eastchester TL 17 and New Rochelle Engine 22 and Ladder 12 to Station 12. Once the YFD Off Duty Personnel who were recalled in arrived, YFD Reserve Engine Companies 316 and 315 were assigned to Station 12 and Station 1 respectfully, freeing up at least 1 out of town Engine Company at both Station 1 and Station 12. The members of YFD did a remarkable job yesterday, given how close those buildings are to one another, preventing it from spreading and having an even more disasterous situation from becoming a reality.

While this 4 Alarm Fire was going on, these Mutual Aid and YFD Reserve Companies were responsible for handling the rest of the City of Yonkers, including "First Responder" calls. Notice that the closest "manned" station, to the Eastern Side of the City was Station 12 on Fortfield Avenue. What if they were called out to say a Gas Odor call somewhere in Northwest Yonkers or the Odell Avenue seciton of Yonkers. Then a call would come in for a "First Responder" medical call in the remote area of Northeast Yonkers?

I could only imagine, with Empress having personnel at the fire scene, that their resources were also taxed. I could only imagine the response times on, say a "First Responder" call up in the farthest section of Northeast Yonkers (Near the Edgemont Boarder) that is usually covered by Engine 314. This is something that the politians in the City of Yonkers needs to think about. As Chief Flynn mentioned, the City of Yonkers is no where near the "proper" manpower levels for a city of its size, especially if you factor in the "Not Yet Completed" Ridge Hill Project (Where is the New Ladder Company (YFD Ladder 77 ?)and Fire House (New 2 Bay Station 10 for 310 and 77 ?) that was on the proposal when the Ridge Hill plans were discussed with the city. Haven't heard a word on that lately! Hmmm. Also, if you now factor in the "on the table" proposal for the New Yonkers Downtown Development, you are just adding to the already taxed Yonkers Fire Department. With this development, the proposal calls for a New 6 Bay YFD Headquarters. In my opinion, you would need to add at least 2 Additional Engine Companies, that should be housed at this New Headquarters (Engine 301 and 302) with an additional Ladder Company housed at Station 3 (Ladder 76 ?). This in addition to what was proposed for Ridge Hill. Now, realizing all of this "on paper companies" the Mayor is talking about cuts in Emergency Services. All it would take is for some "Well To Do" citizen of Yonkers, who is politically connected and who lives in that Remote Northeast Section of Yonkers to have a loved one fall ill and to find that the First Responder Response to them was "Delayed" because of staffing issues within the YFD, becuase they were fighting a difficult 4 Alarm Blaze in Southwest Yonkers? Wake up Mayor Ammicone and City Council Members and realize that this could happen one day (god forbid it does). Yes, Yonkers has the unique plan and fortune to be able to call in off duty personnel and to have the Equipped Spare Apparatus to help and take over from Called In Mutual Aid Companies, but its "not enough" YFD is the best run Professional City Fire Department in the State of New York (for its size) but is "far below" the manpower and apparatus levels of say a Syracuse, a Buffalo, a Rochester or other cities of its size in New York State, especially given its close proximity to New York City. Maybe some day people will wake up and see what is real.

Edited March 12, 2010 by 61MACKBR1