Ridiculus Car Fire response

[newsbuff 286]

I just saw this video that was linked to on firefighterclosecalls. This reminds me of a department that I live around in No. Westchester. No turnout gear on scene, No air packs, standing in front of the bumpers, and worst of all, the guy on the nozzle is wearing street clothes.

I want to know where that guy got his NFPA approved blue shirt firefighting attire.

[16fire5 693]

While there are plenty of times I am happy I was not being taped it is the world we live in. So lets learn frome others mistakes. At car fires like this there is very little to gain but much to lose. The dangers at car fires are extensive and the byproducts of a burning car are probably the worst thing we come in contact on a regular basis. Don't rush, wear everything, use the reach of the stream, and approach at an angle. There was a recent article in Fire Engineering by a member of the YFD which hit the important stuff in depth. I did say very little to gain because they are good for training new members. Your nozzle team gets to work as a team on air to put out a fire. Have the forcible entry team work as a team and get the hood (after the fire is knocked down and bumpers and struts cooled) with the irons (it builds team work with the irons).

[Remember585 815]

I will give them credit for one thing... at least they put the line between the car and the building.

A question to the Mississippi guys on here... is red lights and siren standard issue on all Ducks Unlimited vehicles?

[jack10562 414]

Four guys on a 1-1/2" pre-connect...???

[FiftyOnePride 100]

A Chief is the only one you see even attempt wearing a SCBA, granted after the fire is knocked down, just interesting to see only the Chief DTRT.

[IzzyEng4 427]

I can't believe that it is still a "hot debate" whether to wear SCBA at a car fire or not!!! In my mind its a no brainier with all the poly-carbon parts let alone the fluids that give off noxious gasses when they burn. But in the defense of the crew putting out the fire, they did remember the basic attach especially having the line between the building and the car.

[TR54 239]

At the end of the video the damaged car is shown. Think of the possible cumlative lung damage from inhaling toxic smoke. We don't need Dr.Oz the tell us to "Go on air !" Tell the FF breathing in the smoke next to you, save your health and well-being. The car is not worth you becoming ill later in life.

[FF398 45]

I too give them credit for placing the line in between the building and the vehicle. What surprises me is the fact the guy that's on the knob has no proper PPE on!!!

[FiftyOnePride 100]

I think insurance companies write off any vehicle involved with any amount of fire large or small no? Not worth it without SCBA, worry about exposures and take the time to keep your life cycle going just that much longer.

[wraftery 1,275]

You have to always think of what bad stuff is or could be in the car. Wear full PPE including SCBA because:

*Cars are made with a lot of plastic. If plastics were burning indoors you would make sure you had SCBA on. Why is a car different?

*What fuels this car? Gasoline or something unique and dangerous?

*The wind could shift

*You don't know what's in the trunk

*You could hear a moan and have to rescue the baby in the back seat

*The propane BBQ tank in the trunk could decide to open it's relief valve and spew Propane LIQUID because everybody lays the tank on its side.

*Because Poop Occurs

[wraftery 1,275]

I think insurance companies write off any vehicle involved with any amount of fire large or small no? Not worth it without SCBA, worry about exposures and take the time to keep your life cycle going just that much longer.

Speaking of insurance, a well involved engine compartment fire is usually enough to total a car, so have no qualms about doing damage to the hood.

Often in these fires, the hood release fails. Forget the "thru he headlights" or "thru the radiator" methods. In a modern car, ther's too much stuff behind them for water penetration. You can use a Halligan to pry up the side of the hood.

I've found a good technique. Stand at the side of the car, and make a couple of holes in the top of the hood with the pick head of an axe, and put water in the holes. Take a good swing to make a good hole, and aim for the un-reinforced parts of the hood (single layers of metal). The way you find the single layers is the fire draws them for you. Look and you will see the single layers as triangles.

Try it on your naxt Mercedes

Edited March 9, 2010 by wraftery

[grantnet10 1]

No one said this yet, but look at the turnout gear they are wearing. One guy's pants are too short, mismatched colors, and the gear looks to be extremely old and probably not NFPA certifiable. I'm not saying it's right, but many departments are not able to afford the gear they need.

[efdcapt115 1,511]

A question to the Mississippi guys on here...

The who?

[firemoose827 324]

The same thing happens at dumpster fires as well. I went to one and was the ONLY one wearing all turnouts and a bottle. When I was extinguishing the fire the captain stood next to me in street clothes looking me up and down and said, "Your always prepared for everything arent you?" I looked at him and said "Do you know for sure whats burning in there? What chemicals, hazardous materials, or waste including biological waste could be in there?" He just looked at me.

NEVER take any undue risks, gear up and mask up at every fire.

In the defense of the attack crew on this car fire, there WERE a lot of bystanders to put on a good show for...

[newsbuff 286]

My friend told me of a time that he went to a possible structure fire. Him along with his friend riding thr truck, along with the professional firefighter on scene were the only ones geared up with a tank. Everyone else was wearing street clothes, some you couldn't tell were affiliated with the department. Someone had the stones to ask them, "Are ya dressed up for the occasion?"

[efdcapt115 1,511]

The same thing happens at dumpster fires as well. I went to one and was the ONLY one wearing all turnouts and a bottle. When I was extinguishing the fire the captain stood next to me in street clothes looking me up and down and said, "Your always prepared for everything arent you?" I looked at him and said "Do you know for sure whats burning in there? What chemicals, hazardous materials, or waste including biological waste could be in there?" He just looked at me.

NEVER take any undue risks, gear up and mask up at every fire.

In the defense of the attack crew on this car fire, there WERE a lot of bystanders to put on a good show for...

Hey Moose,

Refer the Captain to this thread if he's taking dumpster fires lightly. Good for you.

http://www.emtbravo.net/index.php?showtopic=35072

[FiftyOnePride 100]

Hey Moose,

Refer the Captain to this thread if he's taking dumpster fires lightly. Good for you.

http://www.emtbravo....showtopic=35072

I recommend reading that thread, and when the NIOSH report probably comes out about it, that as well. EFDCapt has constantly reminded me to buff up on my NIOSH reports. I encourage all on here to take that proactive step and do the same, if you are not already - regardless of the circumstances, there is something to be learned or reinforced by each one.

Edited March 11, 2010 by FiftyOnePride

[PEMO3 523]

In the defense of the attack crew on this car fire, there WERE a lot of bystanders to put on a good show for...

Only one question. Is the risk of a line of duty injury or worse death worth putting on that show? Will they put on that piece of granite "He put on a good show"?

[FiftyOnePride 100]

Only one question. Is the risk of a line of duty injury or worse death worth putting on that show? Will they put on that piece of granite "He put on a good show"?

In retrospect, no, in the heat of the moment, I could see it. Unfortunate as it is, it happened here... hopefully we should be focusing on the efficiency of the job, but that doesn't always happen everywhere.

The only problem is the damage is cumulative.

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Only one question. Is the risk of a line of duty injury or worse death worth putting on that show? Will they put on that piece of granite "He put on a good show"?

Wasn't that line about putting on a "show" intended to be sarcastic humor? After what he wrote about the proper use of PPE, that's what I took it as....

[PEMO3 523]

Wasn't that line about putting on a "show" intended to be sarcastic humor? After what he wrote about the proper use of PPE, that's what I took it as....

I apologize if my response seemed a dig at Moose. I realize the line was sarcastic. The purpose was to raise a point. All to often members, EMS, FD and PD, approach incidents with the lets put on a good show cowboy attitude and it carelessly exposes them along with other members to injury or worse.

[DR104 141]

I apologize if my response seemed a dig at Moose. I realize the line was sarcastic. The purpose was to raise a point. All to often members, EMS, FD and PD, approach incidents with the lets put on a good show cowboy attitude and it carelessly exposes them along with other members to injury or worse.

Thats why they had the hose line the way they did,so they can be on camera.

Edited March 11, 2010 by DR104

[helicopper 1,050]

In retrospect, no, in the heat of the moment, I could see it. Unfortunate as it is, it happened here... hopefully we should be focusing on the efficiency of the job, but that doesn't always happen everywhere.

The only problem is the damage is cumulative.

"In the heat of the moment"? There's something fundamentally wrong with that statement. Either we're professionals and this is just another response or we're the keystone cops and lose our minds when the bell rings.

Train the way you fight, fight the way you train.

[FiftyOnePride 100]

"In the heat of the moment"? There's something fundamentally wrong with that statement. Either we're professionals and this is just another response or we're the keystone cops and lose our minds when the bell rings.

Train the way you fight, fight the way you train.

Let me back up what I said, figured it would be evident, but I guess not: I don't do that myself, nor do I see it as right - but I can understand how they might have felt with all the people around, simply understand, however not sympathize. The runs in the middle of the village on the weekend with all the city folks standing around, for me puts the pressure on to do it right, for others it is to get the job done as fast as possible. In this case sidestepping basic safety to do so.

Edited March 11, 2010 by FiftyOnePride

[firemoose827 324]

Wasn't that line about putting on a "show" intended to be sarcastic humor? After what he wrote about the proper use of PPE, that's what I took it as....

Exactly...someone got it, thanks brother!

[16fire5 693]

Let me back up what I said, figured it would be evident, but I guess not: I don't do that myself, nor do I see it as right - but I can understand how they might have felt with all the people around, simply understand, however not sympathize. The runs in the middle of the village on the weekend with all the city folks standing around, for me puts the pressure on to do it right, for others it is to get the job done as fast as possible. In this case sidestepping basic safety to do so.

You should feel the pressue to do it right on all responses no matter who is watching. As an officer your thoughts on every response should be for the safety of your crew. If you try to act differently or rush because of the crowd you will undoubtedly trip up. Good companies handle car fires and water leaks with the same professionalism as they do a first due job with people trapped.

[FiftyOnePride 100]

You should feel the pressue to do it right on all responses no matter who is watching.

Naturally, shame it isn't so for everyone.

Edited March 13, 2010 by FiftyOnePride

[abaduck 123]

"In the heat of the moment"? There's something fundamentally wrong with that statement. Either we're professionals and this is just another response or we're the keystone cops and lose our minds when the bell rings.

Train the way you fight, fight the way you train.

A certain instructor once said to me 'do garbage collectors get excited when they see garbage?'

That stuck with me.

[FiftyOnePride 100]

A certain instructor once said to me 'do garbage collectors get excited when they see garbage?'

That stuck with me.

There is this photo from a fire last year, I can't find it, I think it was posted on one of the popular blogs. It was in Philly East Hartford, CT, huge warehouse fire, fire blowing out all the visible windows - and you see an officer and two black helmets calmly walking around talking about something. A good visualization of it, let me see if I can find it.\

Edit: to correct place, and give you the photo:

Edited March 13, 2010 by FiftyOnePride