Croton Fire 3/1/10

[Remember585 815]

One photo snapped and given to me at the time I arrived.

Edited March 2, 2010 by Remember585

[FFFORD 27]

wow, appears to be heavy fire in a unique type of structure. any description on type of structure/origin of fire/possible causes?

[yanks4ever1320 6]

were there any issues gaining access to the structure do the snow or the location of the house if it was set far off the road? also was this fire an exterior attack from the start or were there some contributing factors sometime into the fire that caused everyone to be pulled out and placed into a defensive attack?

[Tanker 10eng 140]

wow, appears to be heavy fire in a unique type of structure. any description on type of structure/origin of fire/possible causes?

The structure was solid masonry... heavy ( 1.5 - 2 ft thick ) stone exterior walls, with a stud wall on the inside, then sheet rock. The floors and roof construction were also old heavy floor joists, ( 2 - 3 inch thick ), and the sub-flooring was 1 thick ship lap boards... so over all the structure was well built, as they did back in the day....

[xchief2x 79]

The structure was solid masonry... heavy ( 1.5 - 2 ft thick ) stone exterior walls, with a stud wall on the inside, then sheet rock. The floors and roof construction were also old heavy floor joists, ( 2 - 3 inch thick ), and the sub-flooring was 1 thick ship lap boards... so over all the structure was well built, as they did back in the day....

The building was one of three on the property and it was 600 to 700 feet lay to where the 1st due engine stopped. There were some walkways that were shoveled but other areas had close to 2' of snow. The operations at this incident were exterior from the onset. The floor on the 2nd level had several holes in it, the 1st floor also had several holes and the interior stairway was burnt out. The closest hydrant was near the bottom of the driveway buried in snow and the hydrants in the area are very low pressure, hence the request for the tankers. I hope this answers some of your question yanks 4ever. As for the cause I have no idea but this fire as you can see in the photo was well advanced upon arrival.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

Awesome pic. Looks like a great house.. Thanks for sharing.

[chris 18]

wow, appears to be heavy fire in a unique type of structure. any description on type of structure/origin of fire/possible causes?

This was one of a couple buildings on the property. It was the groundskeepers house, the first floor had three bedrooms a bathroom and a laundry room. It had an attached garage that would fit about 8 cars that you could only access from the outside. The roof on the house and the garage were both flat. The garage was about 100' long. To add to the 700' lay of 5" it was about 250-300' lay of attack line. I do believe their was a cameraman on scene with a bunch of pics ( tizzle ).

[Remember585 815]

The driveway is long, windy and uphill. Luckily E118 had their chains on, because even though the driveway was plowed to fit a car, the width of the apparatus was larger, so the tires were digging in the snow to climb the hill. E118 stopped about 700' up the driveway and stretched their lines (rougly 200 - 300' each) to the fire building. One line went on to the roof of the large garage to hit the 2nd floor, the other to the front door. The fire appeared to have started on the first floor and went up the stairwell to the second floor. The first floor had holes just inside the front door, the stairs were almost gone, the second floor was fully involved and the roof was gone on my arrival. To add to it, there was a BBQ grill on the garage roof, which was used like a patio area, and one of the tanks let go on my arrival, thus why I said the fire was gas fed. It wasn't until we knocked down the bulk of the fire that I realized what it actually was.

All of the hydrants in the area were buried in snow, which had to be dug out. To add to things, the pressure was so low (the tanks are below this location and it's the end of the system) that we couldn't rely on our 5" LDH so 3" had to be used. I called for our "Tanker Task Force" to bring more water, which greatly assisted us by way of nursing. The first two lines made a big impact using just tank water, and the established water supplies aided in the overall extinguishment of this fire. While the water supply was being worked on, tank water from the Engines was used. We used between 50 - 75 gallons of foam to ensure all was extinguished as well at the end. Even though we had over 40 members on scene, plus another 30 or so from Mutual Aid, we were behind on this fire before we even got called. We heard from people that this fire was visible on the Tappan Zee Bridge, and many Mutual Aid units (and our own) saw it from miles away because of where it was located. I saw it from a distance and gave the "10-75."

Unfortunately, the family dog perished.

Units on scene:

Croton FD: 2082, E118, E119, E120, TL44, T10 (R18 OOS)

Ossining FD: 2332, 2334, E98, U51 FAST

Buchanan FD: 2551, 2553, U12 CASCADE

Millwood FD: 2252, T15

Yorktown FD: T14

Continental Village FD: 2131, 2133, T11

Croton EMS: 5513, 55B2

Cortlandt VAC: 88B3

Ossining EMS: 36M1, 7405

Pleasantville VAC: Rehab Unit

WCDES: Battalion 10, EMS 11, C&O Zone 4

Relocated to Croton Station 3: Montrose E123, Briarcliff TL40

And yeah, I said "Castle looking structure." I wasn't sure how else to describe it...

I tried attaching a Bing image, but I'm having no luck...

Edited March 2, 2010 by Remember585

[PEMO3 523]

And yeah, I said "Castle looking structure." I wasn't sure how else to describe it... I tried attaching a Bing image, but I'm having no luck...

Chief I believe this is the photo(s)you were looking for. Castle is the right description.

[x635 4,066]

Looks to be an awesome job by Croton under difficult conditions at a difficult scene.

Remember585, thanks and I appreciate you sharing the photos and details with us a ton.

[yanks4ever1320 6]

i just want to say thanks to xchief2x and remember585 for answering my questions, looks like it was a tough job from the start and i hope all went home safe.

[FF398 45]

MAN! that treacherous driveway reminds me of Montrose FD's Spice Hill Road fire back in December of '08. Great job Croton FD and all the other companies that were involved!

[16fire5 693]

Luckily E118 had their chains on

quote]

Conventional chains or on-spots? I think the conventional chains while sometimes a pain in the a** to put on are superior.

[antiquefirelt 994]

To add to things, the pressure was so low (the tanks are below this location and it's the end of the system) that we couldn't rely on our 5" LDH so 3" had to be used.

Sounds like you guys had your hands full and made a good job of it. Not trying to criticize, but I' having a hard time understanding the above statement? Generally, LDH exceeds in low pressures situations where the smaller diameter creates far more friction loss to move the same amount of water?

[Tanker 10eng 140]

2082 - being that I was on the hill the entire time, where did they use 3 inch ???? From E119 up to E118 it was five inch, and the Hydrant was right at the bottom....

[Remember585 815]

Luckily E118 had their chains on

quote]

Conventional chains or on-spots? I think the conventional chains while sometimes a pain in the a** to put on are superior.

Conventional chains. And I agree with you.

[Remember585 815]

Sounds like you guys had your hands full and made a good job of it. Not trying to criticize, but I' having a hard time understanding the above statement? Generally, LDH exceeds in low pressures situations where the smaller diameter creates far more friction loss to move the same amount of water?

Yeah...I was a little tired when I wrote this so after looking it over I realized I explained it wrong.

Yes, 5" was used at the hydrant. A 3" backup was connected "in case" we had 5" issues. The first arriving Engine also dropped their 3" with the 5" on the way up the driveway.

Hopefully that makes more sense. It's easier to explain things when I'm actually awake...

[Remember585 815]

2082 - being that I was on the hill the entire time, where did they use 3 inch ???? From E119 up to E118 it was five inch, and the Hydrant was right at the bottom....

See my last comment.

[Guest yolkman]

See my last comment.

As engineer and driver of 118, first due, I had the advantage of a prior incident about 3 months ago, when we were on property for an oil burner back-fire in the main house. I have to admit that without this prior "property visit" my confidence to forge thru the gate and up the drive, risking damage or destruction of a 400K pumper, would have been apprehensive. My point is to reinforce that pre-planning (or simple site visit) from the largest to the smallest location is critical. I KNEW WHAT I WAS COMMITTING TO. My chains, as mentioned by 2082 (conventional), on the truck clearly gave my a superior advantage. Lessons learned-Site visits/pre-plan and awarness of site conditions beyond the regular road conditions can make the difference. Thanks to all for their support and mutual aid, at a difficult location. THE FIN

[antiquefirelt 994]

Yeah...I was a little tired when I wrote this so after looking it over I realized I explained it wrong.

Yes, 5" was used at the hydrant. A 3" backup was connected "in case" we had 5" issues. The first arriving Engine also dropped their 3" with the 5" on the way up the driveway.

Hopefully that makes more sense. It's easier to explain things when I'm actually awake...

I figured there was a better explanation, that certainly seems to be a well thought out plan. Today you never know, it seems laying lines can even become a "lost art", and laying dual lines just makes some folks heads spin!