East Fishkill Rescue Operations

[effd3918 34]

Rescue operations for I84 Westbound. Motorists stranded upwards of 14 hours. Here 2 firefighters bring rescue blankets and water to motorists and access if anyone needs medical attention. Luckily everyone was ok (a little upset) and eventually were cleared off the interstate

[helicopper 1,050]

Rescue operations for I84 Westbound. Motorists stranded upwards of 14 hours. Here 2 firefighters bring rescue blankets and water to motorists and asses if anyone needs medical attention. Luckily everyone was ok (a little upset) and eventually were cleared off the interstate

Just curious... Given the scope of the I-84 operations (from Middletown to the state line in Southeast) where was the Command Post and who was in it?

Why were the stranded motorists left on the highway for 14 hours and not removed via snowmobile or ATV? Was that a conscious decision by someone or just how it worked out?

Reminds me of a similar situation in PA during the winter of 2007. PA really took it on the chin for their management of the storm response. The full report is available here.

[Tanker 10eng 140]

Looks more like a pizza delievery bag...

[Bnechis 3,961]

Looks more like a pizza delievery bag...

Bill, this is in the wrong thread. 30 minutes or less is the response time thread. lol

[NWFDMedic 58]

Just curious... Given the scope of the I-84 operations (from Middletown to the state line in Southeast) where was the Command Post and who was in it?

Why were the stranded motorists left on the highway for 14 hours and not removed via snowmobile or ATV? Was that a conscious decision by someone or just how it worked out?

Reminds me of a similar situation in PA during the winter of 2007. PA really took it on the chin for their management of the storm response. The full report is available here.

The I-84 operations were basically on the Stormville Mountain. The rest of the highway that was "closed" was actually quite driveable. I would imagine Greenville Mountain was the same on their end.

[gpdexplorer 46]

I thought the white hat was supposed to be driven around.

Thankfully all made it out ok eventually.

[PVFD233 68]

I thought the white hat was supposed to be driven around.

Thankfully all made it out ok eventually.

He wont let anyone drive his chiefs car....

[PFDRes47cue 653]

Just curious. Is that a department snowmobile or is it one of the members personal snow mobiles? I'm glad everyone made it out safe!

[FFEMTPD72 2]

Just curious. Is that a department snowmobile or is it one of the members personal snow mobiles? I'm glad everyone made it out safe!

It is not a department snowmobile.

EFFD has a 6X6, no snowmobiles etc.

[fireguy43 35]

Rescue operations for I84 Westbound. Motorists stranded upwards of 14 hours. Here 2 firefighters bring rescue blankets and water to motorists and access if anyone needs medical attention. Luckily everyone was ok (a little upset) and eventually were cleared off the interstate

Before one of the many armchair quarterbacks chimes in, this picture was not on I 84, but on a road that has ramps onto 84. Someone will eventually point out that there are no traffic lights and telephone poles on an interstate highway, and then we'll have three days of responses picking apart every detail of the picture.

From the looks of the picture, Lime Kiln Road Andrew?

[TAPSJ 30]

Totally Agree With You Don...Its Lime Kiln Road. East Fishkill, Hughsonville, Pleasant Valley, West Clinton, Amenia< I am sure thier are more but that is off of the top of my head!!!

Thomas

[effd3918 34]

Before one of the many armchair quarterbacks chimes in, this picture was not on I 84, but on a road that has ramps onto 84. Someone will eventually point out that there are no traffic lights and telephone poles on an interstate highway, and then we'll have three days of responses picking apart every detail of the picture.

From the looks of the picture, Lime Kiln Road Andrew?

Correct Don. This is Lime Kiln Road in the area of the ramp for I84

[helicopper 1,050]

Just curious... Given the scope of the I-84 operations (from Middletown to the state line in Southeast) where was the Command Post and who was in it?

Why were the stranded motorists left on the highway for 14 hours and not removed via snowmobile or ATV? Was that a conscious decision by someone or just how it worked out?

Reminds me of a similar situation in PA during the winter of 2007. PA really took it on the chin for their management of the storm response. The full report is available here.

Can anyone address my earlier questions (above)?

[ny10570 745]

Next time you use a sled, if you wear a DOT helmet use it. Our helmets are not made for that type of protection. Not criticizing. I don't even wear a helmet when I snowmobile. Just something people don't often realize.

[FFEMTPD72 2]

Just curious... Given the scope of the I-84 operations (from Middletown to the state line in Southeast) where was the Command Post and who was in it?

I know EFFD has its command personnel at the EFFD HQ facility. I'm not sure about any unified command location though.

Dutchess also has its EOC operating.

[PEMO3 523]

Can anyone address my earlier questions (above)?

Chris I agree with you regarding your questions. Who was the "IC" for this "rescue" operation or was there one? From media reports, and you can only take them at face value, it appears that they failed to close the on ramps to prevent additional vehicles from getting stuck. As they cleared some vehicles more piled in. It seems from the info that was circulated in other forums that it is extremely lucky that this did not become a recovery operation. I would love to here more about the operation itself and the reasoning behind some decisions made as a forum for lessons learned. This was a major unprecedented operation that may help with future incidents. The Taconic, Saw Mill, 684, 87, 9A and 9 all come to mind.

[TAPSJ 30]

From what I heard Orange County was in a State Of Emergancy by 1600, which shut down I-84, also heard thier were mutiple jacknife tractor trailers on the Dutchess side. I only heard 1 call for I-84 and that was West Bound in East Fishkill. Also if you remove these people, how do you remover thier vechile to open up in the morning??? Honestlly they should hae shut it down totally from the Conn State Line to the Penn State Line. That is my opinion.

Thomas

[Bnechis 3,961]

Also if you remove these people, how do you remover thier vechile to open up in the morning???

While this may creat a vehicle removal problem, if people freeze in their cars how do you remover thier vechile to open up in the morning???

Honestlly they should hae shut it down totally from the Conn State Line to the Penn State Line. That is my opinion.

While this may have been the right move, what happens to 684? 87? TSP? NY17 etc.? what do you do with those roads and that will back up other major roads. At what point do you stop?

[xfirefighter484x 234]

Just curious... Given the scope of the I-84 operations (from Middletown to the state line in Southeast) where was the Command Post and who was in it?

I know EFFD has its command personnel at the EFFD HQ facility. I'm not sure about any unified command location though.

Dutchess also has its EOC operating.

East Fishkill FD utilizes it's HQ building as an EOC similar to the DC911 one, key word, 'similar'.

They set up the meeting room with several mobile radios (pre-installed wiring and antennas), so it is a plug and go kind of operation. This set-up is specific to EF town, and there is the availability, IIRC, for EF DPW, EFPD, EFFD, and the Town Supervisor (or designee) to all sit together and get the correct resources where they need to go/be.

If this is inaccurate, someone please correct me, I guess in my delusional mind, this is what I thought!

[post4031 16]

Can anyone address my earlier questions (above)?

Chris,

We got hit pretty hard here and during the height of the storm there were very few plows on the road. We have two vehicles outfitted with plows that were busy responding to alarms so apparatus and ambulances could get to the incident locations.

From the onset of the storm to now we have recieved approx. 75-80 alarms. Also, we were extremely busy getting the elderly and invalids to shelter. We sustained heavy tree damage and most of the town was out of power and still is.

Our Town E.O.C. was open however it was basically a center for fire department operations and we did have communications with the PD.

We recieved a request from the Dutchess EOC for the snowmobile to transport water and blankets to stranded motorists and check the welfare of the occupants, also to transport them to a shelter. We responded within 15 minutes to the request along other neighboring departments.

There was no Unified Command to my knowledge with the exception of the communications between the fire departments. The Thruway Authority and NYS Police requested our assistance and were the authority over the incident. We did have contact with some units on scene but no command structure to my knowledge.

By the time we received the request the Thruway Authority had already started to redirect motorists through turn arounds to the eastbound side and off the highway. We were prepared to transport stranded motorists to a warming center at our HQ's until shelter was established. Most refused to leave their vehicles and the Troopers were not forcing the issue.

The storm severly taxed our resources and the resources of our area. We had members in stations from Thursday afternoon until Saturday evening when we sent as many as we could home and returned to stations Sunday morning.

Given the scope of the storm and the damage it caused I do believe we did as much as we possibly could and if there was a true medical emergency we would have made every attempt to get access to the patient. Just an example we had to remove one resident in a rowboat with a few guys acting as reindeer because nothing could get to where he was located. I am thankful for the dedication of our department members and their willingness to rise above the obstacles they face.

If you have further questions feel free to PM me

Scott Post

[post4031 16]

While this may creat a vehicle removal problem, if people freeze in their cars how do you remover thier vechile to open up in the morning???

While this may have been the right move, what happens to 684? 87? TSP? NY17 etc.? what do you do with those roads and that will back up other major roads. At what point do you stop?

Anytime there is a backup the town becomes jammed with traffic thanks to the GPS. This was another problem during the snowstorm as people were getting off and creating another incident on local roads because they got stuck, ran off the road, etc.

[PEMO3 523]

There was no Unified Command to my knowledge with the exception of the communications between the fire departments. The Thruway Authority and NYS Police requested our assistance and were the authority over the incident. We did have contact with some units on scene but no command structure to my knowledge.

Scott,

Thank you for your honest and open response. It is clear from your post that one break down was the lack of a Unified Command and interoperability in communications. One could only wonder if correction of the breakdown would have led to better coordination of resources and a quicker resolution of the problem. I do not think anyone would challenge that their was an overwhelming call volume all over the tri-state region over the 48+ hours this storm blasted nor that each agency individual did the best that they could with what they had. I guess if any lessons that are learned from this incident help with pre-planning for future incidents not only on 84 but in other jurisdictions it is worth it.

[helicopper 1,050]

From what I heard Orange County was in a State Of Emergancy by 1600, which shut down I-84, also heard thier were mutiple jacknife tractor trailers on the Dutchess side. I only heard 1 call for I-84 and that was West Bound in East Fishkill. Also if you remove these people, how do you remover thier vechile to open up in the morning??? Honestlly they should hae shut it down totally from the Conn State Line to the Penn State Line. That is my opinion.

Thomas

Did the State of Emergency in Orange County involve I-84? Was an emergency order filed and communicated regarding the closure of a State Highway? This is an interesting question for the legal types.

Were any local emergency orders issued regarding travel restrictions? I only saw recommendations to stay off the road, not orders.

As for the vehicles - how 'bout tow trucks? How about SP securing their keys and as the plows get to them remove them to the nearest exit by tow or other driver?

Shutting down the interstate at the ends doesn't do a lot when you factor in 21 entrance ramps in between. This seems to be where one of the big failures occurred.

[helicopper 1,050]

East Fishkill FD utilizes it's HQ building as an EOC similar to the DC911 one, key word, 'similar'.

They set up the meeting room with several mobile radios (pre-installed wiring and antennas), so it is a plug and go kind of operation. This set-up is specific to EF town, and there is the availability, IIRC, for EF DPW, EFPD, EFFD, and the Town Supervisor (or designee) to all sit together and get the correct resources where they need to go/be.

If this is inaccurate, someone please correct me, I guess in my delusional mind, this is what I thought!

Chris,

We got hit pretty hard here and during the height of the storm there were very few plows on the road. We have two vehicles outfitted with plows that were busy responding to alarms so apparatus and ambulances could get to the incident locations.

From the onset of the storm to now we have recieved approx. 75-80 alarms. Also, we were extremely busy getting the elderly and invalids to shelter. We sustained heavy tree damage and most of the town was out of power and still is.

Our Town E.O.C. was open however it was basically a center for fire department operations and we did have communications with the PD.

We recieved a request from the Dutchess EOC for the snowmobile to transport water and blankets to stranded motorists and check the welfare of the occupants, also to transport them to a shelter. We responded within 15 minutes to the request along other neighboring departments.

There was no Unified Command to my knowledge with the exception of the communications between the fire departments. The Thruway Authority and NYS Police requested our assistance and were the authority over the incident. We did have contact with some units on scene but no command structure to my knowledge.

By the time we received the request the Thruway Authority had already started to redirect motorists through turn arounds to the eastbound side and off the highway. We were prepared to transport stranded motorists to a warming center at our HQ's until shelter was established. Most refused to leave their vehicles and the Troopers were not forcing the issue.

First and foremost I'm not criticizing anyone (except perhaps the Thruway Authority).

My question is specifically about the command of the incident as it relates to the stranding of dozens (?) of people overnight on an interstate highway. The TA and SP should have been much more proactive in establishing a proper command post and coordinating the goings on within their area - the interstate highway.

Friday afternoon I heard conflicting information about the status of the highway including from the State itself. This is absurd.

I find it absolutely ridiculous that the State failed so miserably to communicate effectively and coordinate the response to this moderate storm (what if it was worse?) in it's area of responsibility.

Again, this is no reflection to the local agencies who had their own share of problems going on.

[PEMO3 523]

Did the State of Emergency in Orange County involve I-84? Was an emergency order filed and communicated regarding the closure of a State Highway?

Chris I may be wrong but to the best of my knowledge even if a local state of Emergency was issued for Orange County it would not impact travel on an Inter-State Highway such as 84. I believe such a such down would have to come from the State or Feds. You also made a good point about filing, may jurisdictions throw the words "State of Emergency" around but do not file the needed paperwork up the line to make such an order. The other thing is States of Emergency are issued so common place in New York that they are beginning to no longer mean anything to the general public. Case in point is Yorktown, they issue every time there is a snowfall instead of using the term Snow Emergency.

[post4031 16]

First and foremost I'm not criticizing anyone (except perhaps the Thruway Authority).

My question is specifically about the command of the incident as it relates to the stranding of dozens (?) of people overnight on an interstate highway. The TA and SP should have been much more proactive in establishing a proper command post and coordinating the goings on within their area - the interstate highway.

Friday afternoon I heard conflicting information about the status of the highway including from the State itself. This is absurd.

I find it absolutely ridiculous that the State failed so miserably to communicate effectively and coordinate the response to this moderate storm (what if it was worse?) in it's area of responsibility.

Again, this is no reflection to the local agencies who had their own share of problems going on.

No criticism taken...I agree 100% with you. It could have been managed better by the State especially since this snow fell in a localized area. More resources could have been brought in to assist with that specific area and the local departments that were getting slammed already could take care of their own problems.

Scott

[Guest jbgfd314]

Just curious... Given the scope of the I-84 operations (from Middletown to the state line in Southeast) where was the Command Post and who was in it?

Why were the stranded motorists left on the highway for 14 hours and not removed via snowmobile or ATV? Was that a conscious decision by someone or just how it worked out?

Reminds me of a similar situation in PA during the winter of 2007. PA really took it on the chin for their management of the storm response. The full report is available here.

I agree, the Troopers and the ThruwaY Authority are real quick to get you off 84 when you have an incident but where was that same sense of urgency wwhen people were stranded out there?