PD transporting patients?

[JM15 386]

According to a recent IA it appears that a medic transported a patient in cardiac arrest with a police Tahoe. I was just curious about legal ramifications regarding this? Liability for the paramedic? Liability for the officer or agency?

[x635 4,066]

I believe in a situation like the northeast is experiencing, if that is the way they got him to the hospital, I'm pretty sure it's acceptable if that was even the case. They need a surgeon and not a wait for an ambulance that may be significantly delayed in arriving or transporting due to weather.

In Yonkers in 1996 during a major snowstorm, they used National Guard Hummers to transport patients. Same as in the Ice Storm in northern NYS in 1999, State PD used Chevrolet Tahoes to get patients to the hospital or to where an ambulance could transport. If it's offiicially declared a disaster anything goes.

I'm curious, though, was a PD Tahoe actually used in this instance?

[flyboy14295 4]

If it's offiicially declared a disaster anything goes.

Westchester is not in a State of Emergency.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

According to a recent IA it appears that a medic transported a patient in cardiac arrest with a police Tahoe. I was just curious about legal ramifications regarding this? Liability for the paramedic? Liability for the officer or agency?

Hi, I posted the IA you are referring to. Just to clarify, I am not 100% sure if they transported in the PD Tahoe. It is my understanding that the tractor trailer was blocking the roadway and CPR was continued in the Tahoe. Not sure if transported was done with it, but I am pretty sure some was at least until they could intercept with the ambulance. Don't quote me on any of this though.

From what I heard over the scanner, PD reported that a bus could not get to the patient and CPR was being continued in the back of the PD Tahoe. Once again don't quote me on that.

[JJB531 652]

I would assume if the Paramedic can articulate why the decision was made to transport a critical patient in a vehicle other then a DOH certified ambulance, I don't see a huge problem with this. I transported a patient one time in the back of a Mt. Pleasant PD Tahoe. When asked why I articulated my reasons and it was a non-issue. As long as it is done for the right reasons and/or under extingent circumstances, I don't think anyone would go after any EMS provider for doing so.

In this case an individual in traumatic cardiac arrest needs an operating room and nothing else. If the paramedic can articulate that the delay in Ambulances response was due to the scene being inaccessible to the responding ambulance and waiting on scene would have meant another 10 minute delay, the decision to transport in another vehicle was made with the patients best interests in mind. Sometimes you have to adapt and overcome when certain situations present themselves, and as long as it is done in good faith, I don't see a problem with it.

[Guest]

According to a recent IA it appears that a medic transported a patient in cardiac arrest with a police Tahoe. I was just curious about legal ramifications regarding this? Liability for the paramedic? Liability for the officer or agency?

evidently the comments on the tahoe taking the patient to phelps is totally unaware of rt 9 ( Archville hill )during a major storm having grown up in that area!!!!!

[Bnechis 3,961]

Westchester is not in a State of Emergency.

Each City, Town or village can declare a State of Emergency (many did)

[x635 4,066]

LoHud.com article:

http://www.lohud.com/article/20100226/NEWS02/2260379/Woman-rescued--but-in-critical-condition--after-heart-attack-during-storm?GID=aXNbaoqR864/LSG0BnfaT6If5SMt8lKD//fE4OkQaNQ%3D

Woman rescued, but in critical condition, after heart attack during storm

Richard Liebson • rliebson@lohud.com • February 26, 2010

A woman who suffered an apparent heart attack while driving on Route 9 in Mount Pleasant during Thursday night's storm was revived by emergency workers and taken to Phelps Memorial Hospital Center, where she was in critical condition today, police said.

[JJB531 652]

I stand corrected, I was under the assumption that it was a traumatic arrest they were working... either way, great job overcoming the conditions they were faced with.

[x129K 1,393]

Sometime you just have to make do with what ya got....bottom line is getting the patient the ER..

I have transported a cardiac arrest in the back of a lower Westchester fire department's heavy rescue after my own ambulance's brakes "caught fire" due to mechanical malfunction......

[fac911 33]

I remember that !!!!!!

[x129K 1,393]

I remember that !!!!!!

LOL...I bet you do!

Man did we bend alot of rules on that call! LOL!

[idlewildvfd 88]

Let's see...

Transport patient in a PD vehicle to the medical center and possibly save his/her life or wait for an ambulance in one of the worst snowstorms in recent years and risk the patient dying...you make the call.

[50-65 205]

Improvise, adapt, and overcome. What is necessary for the good of the patient? Sometimes that is a little outside of the realm of "normal". These past couple of days were definately not normal. Remember, sometimes it is easier to ask for forgiveness than it is for permission.

As a side bar, hats off to City of Newburgh DPW crews for plowing a path for us to get to patients Thursday night/Friday morning.

[dadbo46 50]

Improvise, adapt, and overcome.

Thank you, Marine. Semper Fi.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

LoHud.com article:

http://www.lohud.com...D//fE4OkQaNQ%3D

I heard on the street that the lady who had the heart attack was not the driver. Her husband was actually driving her to Phelps for work.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

When I've made the decision to transport a patient in a PD car or in an apparatus I know damn well, just like that medic did that its a decision that had to be done. I will worry about my liability (which there is really none) when those whom are suppose to be supplying a transport ambulance do. What liability would even apply here? Or in a case where you aren't getting an ambulance for a significant period of time? The region and DOH might frown upon it, but if you've done your job and as my good friend JJB has said you document your reasons as to why...no further action warranted. Period.

If anything, under the conditions those on scene made a solid decision based on what they had. If in a structure, the option to terminate efforts and pronounce is more of an option then when in a snow storm and outside.

[xfirefighter484x 234]

As others have said before, (IMHO), you do what is best for the patient. It is easier to defend an "out of the box" method, than to have to answer to an inquisition as to why transport was delayed (or at least so I would think).

Think how either answer would start:

Unconventional method:

"Well, while not a DoH approved ambulance, I felt it was in the patient's best interest, to increase survivability, I..."

Sitting and waiting:

"Well, there wasn't an ambulance available, and I thought that it would be illegal to transport a patient in anything other than a DoH approved vehicle"

[ex-commish 490]

Westchester is not in a State of Emergency.

I believe Mt. Pleasant was in a state of emergency. Anything goes. The right choice was made in my opinion.

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

I was working when that happened and the Patient was transported in the back of a Tahoe. RT 9 was a parking lot at the time of the Aided case. Orginally it was not known that there was an accident. Bystanders were doing CPR when MPPD was called. Medic was dispatched along with an ambulance but there was NO WAY they could get through. I would have done the same thing!! If you wait for an ambulance and the Patient dies everyone will say well why didn't they transport in the police car. Damned if you do and damned if you don't!!! Good Job to my boys at MPPD on getting the Patient there ALIVE!!!

[FFLieu 70]

There's nothing wrong with an out-of-the-box solution to an exigent problem, especially in light of a situation such as this one, in which "time is life" so-to-speak. While it's not the most conventional method, and probably shouldn't be done in a majority of the situations, it was appropriate, especially since the patient is alive today. A CPR save is no small feat given the best of situations in which there are little or no complications; take what happened in the snow storm and then couple it with the favorable outcome, and everyone involved deserves a hats off.

[medic929 0]

According to a recent IA it appears that a medic transported a patient in cardiac arrest with a police Tahoe. I was just curious about legal ramifications regarding this? Liability for the paramedic? Liability for the officer or agency?

The medic never made it to the scene.It was two off duty emts that were driving by the scene

[JM15 386]

I never meant to knock or question the actions of the personnel on scene. I completely understand what and why they did it. I was more curious about the legalities since this type of situation is uncommon. So when it comes down to it valid documentation is sufficient?