Train Wreck - Brainstorming - What would we do?

[wraftery 1,275]

I would like that as well Mike and in fact have mentioned having a city/town/village mock up dedicated somewhere on campus to do different table top scenarios. Much like the "Abbottville" set up that has been at the Firehouse Expo in Baltimore.

While its nice in theory that its Spank's problem in practice depending on where he is or other resources...its my problem. Just as what resources they have? Local FD, local PD, local EMS and when the crap hits the fan or doesn't go well I'm quite sure that we'll have teflon. Not.

Maybe I didn't put it right. It is MNRR's jurisdiction, but obviously an incident of magnitude in anybody's jurisdiction requires all surrounding resources to be invloved. I was just trying to say that MNRR may very well have a plan developed. If there is a plan, then yes, the resources that would be involved should be aware of the plan and their part in the plan. And yes, a tabletop and then a large scale drill are the next steps to take.

But none of this is any good if it dosen't incllude the major player in the game who, in this case is MNRR.

Sorry 'bout the miscommunication.

[Anthony Tester 13]

I posted this earlier:

Anthony Tester is "Right On"! I would like to make a proposal. I think a table top training evolution involving all agencies and their top brass in Westchester is a must. If we need to, we could do all career chief's first and then the volunteers (hopefully we can play nice in the sand box and do it together). SOP's/SOG's can be established from this exercise. The County could sponsor it (I will start making phone calls on Monday) and follow it up with an MCI drill with all agencies. If this proves successful, we could do this on a bi-annual basis and prepare for other emergencies that would require multi-agencies. The Hudson, in my opinion, is another accident waiting to happen. I'm open for more of your excellent feedback and suggestions..........

Hopefully we can get it to fly!

Tabletops are a great start. It really does assist with identifying those "initial" areas where agencies are weak in. There has to be lessons learned from the tabletop or else all that work goes out the window. Sometimes it is easier said than done, not everyone is willing to accept an area where there may be an issue. There are going to be "helmets" that butt heads and there are going to be those who refuse to change their way of operating or even take a step back and take a look on how they are operating. Its the nature of what we do. At some point the better will prevail and you move on from there. We did a tabletop a few years ago (post 9-11) and during the exercise it was quickly realized the FD needed assistance early on, a no brainer you would think, but it was complicated process cutting through red tape. People do not always think the way we do and sometimes you really have to drive it home. We wound up having to create a hazmat team with a 100 members on top of specfically trained individuals whose expertise is with the train cars themselves. They work along ESU and FD when a car has to be lifted or moved. Alot of the track cart ideas came out of this and London was already using them. Initially the first carts where non motorized. This presented a huge problem ,there are inclines and declines, major ones. The carts where great for short distances but that was about it. The track carts now are motorized with an improved design. Stay with it, eventually it will all fall into place.

[Monty 35]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned here that probably falls under the logistics section, at least initially are technical rescue teams. I could easily imagine that two MNR trains colliding would have at least 4 and probably more cars requiring stabilization. So, off the get go you could utilize the Southern Westchester task force (YFD, NRFD, MVFD etc), White Plains, Greenburgh, Westchester County, OFPC and potentially / probably Rockland, FDNY, Albany's NY-TF2.

Big question is whether all these teams could work together - under NIMS - along with the AHJ.

Doing a quick search of google it says it took responders 30 minutes to respond and that 10 hours later they were still searching for survivors. That should give an idea of the resources that you could expect to need.

As mentioned, imagine dealing with this on the bridges / pontoons around the Annsville Circle area, or the bridge across the Croton River ....

[hudson144 150]

Alot of info here that can help, I always look at the Hudson River as I go south into NYC on the train, another resource that will be needed is marine units. If you look at the tracks on the Hudson line they are right on the shoreline of the river. Get it? HUDSON LINE lol. Access to many parts of the tracks along the river is simply not there. If there is a mishap along the River in many isolated spots getting to the scene can be another story in its self. Resources- local FD/PD. Coast Guard, CG Aux (Launch 5). Water rescues may be needed. Winter Ops may be hampered because of Ice on the River. This could be a nightmare for all involved. Not too long ago there was a derailment in stony point, not a passenger train either. Many people always complain about Indian Point but if they realized what goes up n down the tracks on the west shore they might have more concerns. Alot of times the wind is out of the NW. A Haz MAT leak from one of the cargo trains on the West Shore could certainly be a disaster for us east siders. The derailment in Stony Point that morning did not have any leaks but I do believe chemical cars were involved. Just another incident to plan for! Be safe .

[TRUCK6018 50]

A Haz MAT leak from one of the cargo trains on the West Shore could certainly be a disaster for us east siders.

Cargo trains are not just limited to the west side of the Hudson. CSX runs cargo regularly on the Hudson (and New Haven) lines regularly also.

In addition to Metro North and CSX, Amtrak also has trains running regularly along the Hudson and New Haven lines.

[ny10570 745]

http://www.emtbravo.net/index.php?showtopic=36366&pid=207604&st=0entry207604

Posted by Markmets415

We have some openings in this class, send me a PM or post here if you are interested in attending or have questions. The classroom training will be held at the Wassaic Firehouse on Thursday April 8, 2010 @ 19:00hrs and the hands-on training will be held on Saturday April 10, 2010 @ 9 am at the Wassaic Train Station.

Metro North Railroad presents this course. Content includes familiarization with railroad systems, equipment, and operational procedures; operation of normal access and egress devices, as well as emergency operation of the equipment; power systems including locomotives, electric powered equipment, and third rail precautions; search and rescue procedures for rail cars (this includes a practical application from a smoke filled rail car); and victim removal from rail cars using various rescue procedures. All students wishing to participate in the hands-on portion dealing with search and rescue of rail cars, along with victim removal techniques, are required to bring firefighting OSHA compliant protective equipment, self-contained breathing apparatus (SCBA), and one spare air bottle.

Designed For:All emergency response personnelCourse Length:8 hours

[PFDRes47cue 653]

Mike, you are right on. Look at this thread and who answered. They are all guys with time on the job, experience, and a lot of training. I just hope that the new generation is reading this thread and gaining some knowledge from it. Hopefully, they are not stuck on things like the Stamford situation, fire engine photos, etc.

We have seen 100's of comments on one photo of a guy on a roof with a saw. They picked out dozens of tiny little items in that one photo, but throw up a picture of a train wreck, and all you get is silence.

Like you said, "Something is just not right here."

I think this thread is excellent. I am enjoying reading it and picking up some knowledge about something that is a very big possibility. Thanks to all for the great posts and insight.