Firematic Coverage During Parades?

[Bnechis 3,961]

1.) See KCRD's post from 11:11 this morning. He says it, using the word inferior. I raised that issue back at him.

Yes he used the word inferior, but I said; "1) Can you show which post or posts have been claiming that any department (by name, type or community) is inferior?" and KCRD said: "Why should someone be thanked for providing an inferior service (career or vollie)?". Can you please tell us which department, type of dept. or community he was talking about from the info provided?

2.) See KCRD's post from 11:11 this morning. Again, he uses the word inferior. I substituted the word shoddy in this instance.

So what is the difference if they are providing shoddy service or inferior service?

shoddy [ˈʃɒdɪ]

1. imitating something of better quality

2. of poor quality; trashy

3. made of shoddy material

inferior [ɪnˈfɪərɪə]

1. lower in value or quality

2. lower in rank, position, or status; subordinate

3. not of the best; mediocre; commonplace

4. lower in position; situated beneath

And that did not answer my question.

3.) Who appointed you, Flynn, or your respective "boys" the judges and juries with respect to how a department other than your own is doing?

1) As an American I do not need to be appointed (thanks to my grand parents and great grand parents for leaving the old world so I would have that right).

2) As a public service using public funds that are paid for with public tax money I do have the right to comment. And yes my tax dollars do find there way into every dept. in Westchester (and beyond).

Don't you think that's the business of each other departments' Chiefs, Board of Fire Commissioners, Members, and most importantly, residents themselves? Unless you or a loved one lives in a district that you know provides inferior service (again, KCRD's word), why is there the constant gripe about what the volunteers do, their staffing issues, their response times, and all the other bullcrap?

Yes it clearly is the business of the fire leaders and the membership, but it is clear that some are not taking care of business. There are a number of members of VFD's who have posted here as to how they have tried to change this and some have been able to and others have been forced out, because the leaders or members do not want that. It is even more clear that the public has no idea what level of service is being provided. This is particularly true if the public is never told what level of service is being provided.

I do have family and friends who live in a number of cummunities and I care greatly over them, thank you. I also have many friends who are both volunteer and career firefighters in these departments and I worry about them and the fact that they are placed in even greater danger than members of my dept.

You say this is only about volunteers....I have made these comments about career depts., combo depts and volunteer depts. For me it has never been about volunteer vs. career, it has always been about providing the best service, Thats what I swore I would do when I was sworn in.

That said, no one can paint the opposing side with a broad brush. And that includes coming on here and demanding to know answers to questions that have been killed ten times over in the past.

So you believe that volunteers and career are on opposing sides, opposing sides of what? all I have been hearing is quality of service issues, are you saying that we are on opposing sides of that?

It has been made clear by a couple of posters that depts who are willing to take apparatus and firefighters to Lake George without providing coverage for days are on opposing side of quality service>

How would you like it if I listened to 60 one day when you were getting slammed and I came on here to raise questions about YOUR department? I'm pretty sure it would piss you off. And I'm pretty sure it would piss you off if I came on here every third day to talk smack - in general - about your "brothers."

One of the great things about America is you can. One of the things that is great about my department is when we have a problem, we study it and report that problem to the city administration, the mayor and the city council and its often done live, on camera for the community to see and now its available on the internet so our property owners who are out of town can watch. When our firefighters do not feel that those channels are working they have gone to the press and have been out at the supermarkets and railroad station making sure the public knows what the problem is. Now this may not solve the problem, but it can not be said we did not inform the community about what we can and can not do.

and who gives a flying crap about a parade? Don't you think department leadership is responsible enough to maybe perhaps CANCEL their participation in the particular parade if it came to light that their immediate jurisdiction was left short? Nobody ever mentioned that, now did they?

It has already been posted that in some depts. the parade is the most important thing and yes if it "Came to light" they might but thats only because they were caught.

has anyone gone and started thinking that retones are part of the departments assignment procedure????

Retones are a common part of many dept. procedures, including mine, but when you hear: any available ______ time after time, and then hear them toning mutual aid to cover the call this is not a retone issue.

[JFLYNN 681]

3.) Who appointed you, JFlynn, or your respective "boys" the judges and juries with respect to how a department other than your own is doing? Don't you think that's the business of each other departments' Chiefs, Board of Fire Commissioners, Members, and most importantly, residents themselves? Unless you or a loved one lives in a district that you know provides inferior service (again, KCRD's word), why is there the constant gripe about what the volunteers do, their staffing issues, their response times, and all the other bullcrap? I've met paid guys who are worth their salt and I've met volunteers who are worth their salt. Conversely, I've met some paid guys who are pretty useless and I've met some volunteers who are pretty useless. That said, no one can paint the opposing side with a broad brush. And that includes coming on here and demanding to know answers to questions that have been killed ten times over in the past. How would you like it if I listened to 60 one day when you were getting slammed and I came on here to raise questions about YOUR department? I'm pretty sure it would piss you off. And I'm pretty sure it would piss you off if I came on here every third day to talk smack - in general - about your "brothers." We all put the wet stuff on the red stuff, we're all "brothers;" who gives a flying crap what side of the line we're on, and who gives a flying crap about a parade? Don't you think department leadership is responsible enough to maybe perhaps CANCEL their participation in the particular parade if it came to light that their immediate jurisdiction was left short? Nobody ever mentioned that, now did they?

Holy wow!!! Someone is taking this very personnally. My comments were meant for every department that provides Shoddy service. Never once did I mention or infer to volunteers. It was for both sides. There have many threads that bashed Mt Vernon manpower issues they face. Its not the guys on the lines fault. Its the Mayors. Their abuse of the mutual-aid system is well documented. Both career and volly members spoke on this issue. The constant gripe pertains to those places that seem to have a systemic problem of not having to be retoned and mutual aid called. If your department is not one these, than why does it bother you?

Now to address some of your points:

1. Its not up to those people you mentioned because most of those people in charge dont want to admit there is a problem.

That would require change and we cant have that. The travesty. The average citizen is also clueless when it comes to this. They are not given the correct info, because if they were, change would've happened already.

2. For the record, I do have loved ones that live in Northern West, Rockland, and CT, so I feel it is my right to be concerned about the the coverage they are recieving. Wether its Fire or EMS.

3. I invite you to listen to the our departments tones and point out flaws. We have some very open-minded chiefs that read this site and would take your objective criticism under consideration. (except JFLYNN -cause he would take it personnal )

4. It has already been pointed out that by this thread that some depts have placed parades and other events above good service.

5. Once everone is trained to same level and there is 1 standard for all, there will only be 1 side. The career vs Vollie arguement will be dead because response times are the same, skills are the same, and most importantly, the public will be better served by US.

Hey KCRD, you write well and you make excellent points...I'm not going to PM you cause I'm having fun trying to guess who you are.

I think it's time we just start ignoring the posts of this particular individual. Let him keep going, he is actually doing a great job of displaying what some of the problems and attitudes are in this particular situation.

Don't worry, people can read and most people on this site are intelligent and reasonable. They (career, volunteer and other) will see the situation and the personalities for what and who they are.

However, let's not stop talking about this very serious issue. I just suggest we just not dignify some of these really off the wall posts and personal posts by engaging in debate.

It is impossible to reason with an unreasonable person.

[calhobs 110]

I think it is very simple to answer the Chiefs question. If you have a parade to go to chances are the neighboring Departments are going also, so here is a plan that is simple to use, if you don’t have the coverage you don’t go to the parade. Why is that so hard to understand?

[Chief1710 14]

as a point of interest: there is a engine and ambulance from Putnam standing by for Mohegan tonight in there quarters , they have an event going on tonight

[JJB531 652]

as a point of interest: there is a engine and ambulance from Putnam standing by for Mohegan tonight in there quarters , they have an event going on tonight

So, because of a social event, Mohegan (and I say Mohegan only because that was the agency mentioned) has acknowledged that they will be unable to cover EMERGENCY calls within their jurisdiction, and has depleted another agency of both fire protection and EMS coverage. Personally, I don't see how this is beneficial?

Perhaps a better course of action would have been to have this event within their jurisdiction (if that is possible, depending on the type of event I guess) so they can roster a sober crew (if alcohol is being served at this event) to man their first due fire apparatus (I guess, I don't know the first thing about fire department operations) and their first due ambulance.

If the event is outside of their jurisdiction, unfortunately some members should be rostered to cover their first due fire apparatus and ambulance, instead of attending the event. Which takes priority, the social event or providing fire protection and EMS coverage for the residents of our respective districts?

[chris 18]

This is all to serious of a topic, and I am affraid as a proud vollie, that the paid fellows are correct with the exception that not every Dept. or company within a dept. is having problems, but some are more social than firematic and it is a sad and needs to stop - join the elks club or a yacht club to drink and party not a FIREHOUSE those days are over . I see and hear and have witnessed company's do more for a parade than pre-plans , training , rig checks and so on. When someone says something to them, you are a bad guy, or your trying to be a real firefighter or trying to be like the big cities. I would like to say that the people in my company and Dept. are not against taking classes at the different training centers or in house training just some of them. I think it is sad that we can't take parades and turn them into training or atleast the money put towards the parades to buy new equiptment , or the chiefs friends getting new gear without proving themselves to the Dept. and earning the stuff for once, like the good old days. This topic is great on so many levels but will fall on deaf ears like most of the problems. ( without going out on a limb I would have to say that paid and vollie Dept's alike all share the same problems just to different degree's and angles).

[ec255 22]

This is a valid question. The answers are simple. Maybe some of the people posting and reading here don't known their departments' policy (if any) reguarding this subject. In that case they should ask. The smart thing to do is take this question(and the others that have been asked) and answer them for your specific department- If your department goes to parades or other events and does not have a viable plan to cover its obligations to the community- get one rolling!

[Remember585 815]

Same problem different scenario?

Does anyone see a problem if a department takes 75 percent of its apparatus and 60 to 75 percent of its interior qualified firefighters a few miles out of the district to go to the training center for three hours of training? Are we also leaving our district understaffed/undermanned?

BTW- this is in no way defending understaffing a community for parades.

Just like to hear what others think.

Since I'm one of those guys who has taken multiple companies out of our jurisdiction for training, I can tell you this - every time I do it I can't help but wonder if it's a bad idea. But, every time we've done it, we have two Engines and a Ladder covering us, whether it's all Mutual Aid or a combination of our own units.

As a multi-company department, it is important for us to work together often and keep up our skills. We can only do so many drills in our own area, but we don't have much to use. The Fire Training Center is a great facility with so many options for people to fine-tune their skills. It is of the utmost importance to us, as a department, to drill on a regular basis, especially because our call volume isn't that high. We used to try "Department Drills" using only one or two rigs, and those from the other companies wouldn't come because they remained in town to staff their apparatus for any calls we might have. This is why we now have multi-company drills and department drills involving all companies, and depend on Mutual Aid help to cover the home turf while we improve ourselves.

It's a pain in the a**, I can't lie, because most of us here (volunteer and paid) don't have the proper facilities to do live fire training, so traveling out of town isn't an option, it's the only way we can do it.

We all want to be better firefighters, fire companies and fire departments, so if that means occassionally pulling companies out of service / out of town to train, that's what we have to do. Pulling resources out of town for a parade or other parties and not keeping people behind to mind the shop, that's just begging to get caught with your pants down. I have nothing against parades, I LOVE THEM, but what I hate is how to some people it's nothing more then a chance to put on their uniforms, get hammered and embarass those of us that actually still give a s***.

I've said it before on here, uniforms & booze don't mix. It's these public displays of stupidity that make all of us have to defend ourselves to everyone as not being a bunch of drunken firemen!

Be proud, but be smart. Remember our priorities in the fire service - response, training, prevention and education.

[ex-commish 490]

Since I'm one of those guys who has taken multiple companies out of our jurisdiction for training, I can tell you this - every time I do it I can't help but wonder if it's a bad idea. But, every time we've done it, we have two Engines and a Ladder covering us, whether it's all Mutual Aid or a combination of our own units.

As a multi-company department, it is important for us to work together often and keep up our skills. We can only do so many drills in our own area, but we don't have much to use. The Fire Training Center is a great facility with so many options for people to fine-tune their skills. It is of the utmost importance to us, as a department, to drill on a regular basis, especially because our call volume isn't that high. We used to try "Department Drills" using only one or two rigs, and those from the other companies wouldn't come because they remained in town to staff their apparatus for any calls we might have. This is why we now have multi-company drills and department drills involving all companies, and depend on Mutual Aid help to cover the home turf while we improve ourselves.

It's a pain in the a**, I can't lie, because most of us here (volunteer and paid) don't have the proper facilities to do live fire training, so traveling out of town isn't an option, it's the only way we can do it.

We all want to be better firefighters, fire companies and fire departments, so if that means occassionally pulling companies out of service / out of town to train, that's what we have to do. Pulling resources out of town for a parade or other parties and not keeping people behind to mind the shop, that's just begging to get caught with your pants down. I have nothing against parades, I LOVE THEM, but what I hate is how to some people it's nothing more then a chance to put on their uniforms, get hammered and embarass those of us that actually still give a s***.

I've said it before on here, uniforms & booze don't mix. It's these public displays of stupidity that make all of us have to defend ourselves to everyone as not being a bunch of drunken firemen!

Be proud, but be smart. Remember our priorities in the fire service - response, training, prevention and education.

Excellent !!!

[Tanker 10eng 140]

I vote for stopping Parades !!! I hate them, and would rather spend the hours spent, pulling everything off the engine, cleaning them, testing them and making sure everything is perfect - and instead spend that time training... Hands on...

[Bnechis 3,961]

I vote for stopping Parades !!! I hate them, and would rather spend the hours spent, pulling everything off the engine, cleaning them, testing them and making sure everything is perfect - and instead spend that time training... Hands on...

I was wondering if someone was going to go there. I disagree. Yes I said it. This is post 71....go back to #32, I said we do parades, they are good for the fire service and we all enjoy them, but the key is we need to cover our responsibility to the community. I explained how we do it, it can be done and yes it builds pride.

But do we really need trophys for the "news rig, longest ladder or most members marching"? How about a new catagory: Best coverage at home, while you are here!

[gamewell45 258]

I vote for stopping Parades !!! I hate them, and would rather spend the hours spent, pulling everything off the engine, cleaning them, testing them and making sure everything is perfect - and instead spend that time training... Hands on...

What I would suggest to you is that your bring this up at your fire company meeting and explain your position to them. If they insist on attending parades anyhow you can boycott parades by staying within the distict and man the station incase of an alarm. You can also refuse to be involved in pulling everything off the engine, cleaning them, testing them and making sure everything is perfect; afterall your a volunteer. Lead by example; they can't force you to do anything you don't want to.

[MoFire390 118]

I really thing this thread is becoming nothing but oppions...and yall know the famous saying

[gamewell45 258]

I really thing this thread is becoming nothing but oppions...and yall know the famous saying

Yup, time to close it. Nothing more to be gained by opining over this.

[xfirefighter484x 234]

Yup, time to close it. Nothing more to be gained by opining over this.

Just my humble suggestion guys and gals, if you so feel that this topic has past it's pinnacle, I recommend hitting the "Report" button, or PMing a Moderator or Admin.

Wouldn't want to get accused of closing down a topic and "over-moderating" or "censorship"...

Not that THAT would ever happen in these forums...

I think that all the major points have been hit on.

To sum it up; -Yes, parades promote 'friendly' competition, bonding time, and hopefully good friendly times.

-Can/do staffing issues arise due to this?

Sure.

-Are some pre-existing staffing issues just exacerbated by this?

Sure.

-Will this issue be solved any time soon?

Probably not.

-Does the thread Op bring up valid points?

Yes.

-Does this thread REALLY need to have the same things said over and over again (from this point out)?

Answer the poll to give your opinion...

As a PS, it is typically at the OP's request that a thread would get shut down automatically (since it it "their thread"), but I am sure if the consensus is such, then it could be closed.

Just my humble $0.02

[Remember585 815]

In regards to "taking equipment off an apparatus to clean it," this is probably one of the BEST WAYS to inspect things and give them a good cleaning, grinding, adjusting, etc. When else does it get done?

[JFLYNN 681]

Just my humble suggestion guys and gals, if you so feel that this topic has past it's pinnacle, I recommend hitting the "Report" button, or PMing a Moderator or Admin.

Wouldn't want to get accused of closing down a topic and "over-moderating" or "censorship"...

Not that THAT would ever happen in these forums...

I think that all the major points have been hit on.

To sum it up; -Yes, parades promote 'friendly' competition, bonding time, and hopefully good friendly times.

-Can/do staffing issues arise due to this?

Sure.

-Are some pre-existing staffing issues just exacerbated by this?

Sure.

-Will this issue be solved any time soon?

Probably not.

-Does the thread Op bring up valid points?

Yes.

-Does this thread REALLY need to have the same things said over and over again (from this point out)?

Answer the poll to give your opinion...

As a PS, it is typically at the OP's request that a thread would get shut down automatically (since it it "their thread"), but I am sure if the consensus is such, then it could be closed.

Just my humble $0.02

As the "OP" (took me a minute to figure out what that meant) I strongly believe that the thread should remain open at this time. The "OP" was only made 4 days ago. I would bet that a lot of members have not yet had an opportunity to read it. Especially in light of the Holiday week. Many of our members will most likely be shocked to learn of some of the aspects of this whole issue and they should be given the opportunity to do so.

I also believe that several members would like to see this thread go away because the truth hurts and they don't want this information out there. Further, I think we will see positive change come out of this thread. Some departments will be proactive and others will be reactive. The reactive departments will make changes only after there is a tragedy and someone dredges up the information from this thread and delivers it to the media and / or elected officials. This will show that the problem was known about in advance and those responsible failed to make changes. At that point, change will be demanded by outsiders and it will come swiftly.

The very fact that several individuals are so outraged by this thread begs for it to remain open. If you believe that this whole thing is a non-issue, just don't read it.

Also, for those who repeatedly state that this is not the forum for this discussion...I think it is the perfect forum. Sure, there are other avenues for obtaining, discussing, and disseminating this information. However, for myself and others who love the fire service yet are quite pressed for time normally, this is great. It's fairly convenient to check in here from time to time to check up on the IA's and other issues posted on here and then chime in as time and energy permit.

[KCRD 6]

I for one also would like to see the thread stay open. I'm still waiting on some answers that hopefully will be answered. Maybe myself, JFLYNN, BNECHIS and others are asking too much. Then again, we are southern Westchester elitists. Funny, I always thought Yonkers was looked down upon by the rest of the County cause its poor and crime-ridden. An actual quote that was said to me a few yrs ago when asked where I'm from "I'm so sorry". Said by Northern West resident.

[ckroll 101]

A good question deserves a good answer. My volunteer department has over 100 active members, lots of associates. Some serve out of family traditions, some are adrenaline junkies, some believe in community service. There are even a few souls who come for the food, and my heart goes out to them. Yes, some people love to parade and those people go to parades. The last time I was at a meeting, which is a while ago, there was grousing from the parade people that so few people were turning out, it was a always the same few. Long after one has put on a scott pack for the last time, one can don a uniform and shiny shoes to go marching for the cause.

For every hour out at a parade, dozens of hours are spent in house, polishing, gear checking, maintaining equipment. Towns are extremely well protected when everyone is in house on a detail. I even remember a mutual aid call where not only did we make filthy the parade truck and the parade rack, we could have won best dressed department to a running brush fire.

It is hard to prove a negative. I can say without reservation that in my 20 years as a volunteer, my department never put parading above fire fighting. I cannot think of a time where service suffered when a truck was out of town, be it maintenance or a parade and I can think of many times a designated crew on stand by cut response time. I can remember the dozens of times that I was asked to stay home and stay frosty. I can remember the day of a department golf outing we handled back to back structure fires with over 40 members at scene. I can remember the night of the 2000 New Year's Eve gala when, party notwithstanding, we mounted an outstanding attack on a propane fueled house fire with easily 50 members at scene.

A volunteer fire department is a social enterprize. It is also a large and dedicated fire fighting organization. What we lack in paid performance is more often than not made up in brute size. If for 4 hours on a Saturday afternoon we are down 10 deputy chiefs with a combined age of 750 and one truck.... we still have 7 trucks and 80 members home cutting grass. Parades aren't on held on weekdays.

Here is a pair of questions for our paid brothers: How many fire fighters does a paid truck get to the scene.... 4 or 5?

Can our paid brothers point out times when participation at a parade has actually resulted in a negative outcome for a community served by volunteers?

[ckroll 101]

A good question deserves a good answer. My volunteer department has over 100 active members, lots of associates. Some serve out of family traditions, some are adrenaline junkies, some believe in community service. There are even a few souls who come for the food, and my heart goes out to them. Yes, some people love to parade and those people go to parades. The last time I was at a meeting, which is a while ago, there was grousing from the parade people that so few people were turning out, it was a always the same few. Long after one has put on a scott pack for the last time, one can don a uniform and shiny shoes to go marching for the cause.

For every hour out at a parade, dozens of hours are spent in house, polishing, gear checking, maintaining equipment. Towns are extremely well protected when everyone is in house on a detail. I even remember a mutual aid call where not only did we make filthy the parade truck and the parade rack, we could have won best dressed department to a running brush fire.

It is hard to prove a negative. I can say without reservation that in my 20 years as a volunteer, my department never put parading above fire fighting. I cannot think of a time where service suffered when a truck was out of town, be it maintenance or a parade and I can think of many times a designated crew on stand by cut response time. I can remember the dozens of times that I was asked to stay home and stay frosty. I can remember the day of a department golf outing we handled back to back structure fires with over 40 members at scene. I can remember the night of the 2000 New Year's Eve gala when, party notwithstanding, we mounted an outstanding attack on a propane fueled house fire with easily 50 members at scene.

A volunteer fire department is a social enterprize. It is also a large and dedicated fire fighting organization. What we lack in paid performance is more often than not made up in brute size. If for 4 hours on a Saturday afternoon we are down 10 deputy chiefs with a combined age of 750 and one truck.... we still have 7 trucks and 80 members home cutting grass. Parades aren't on held on weekdays.

Here is a pair of questions for our paid brothers: How many fire fighters does a paid truck get to the scene.... 4 or 5?

Can our paid brothers point out times when participation at a parade has actually resulted in a negative outcome for a community served by volunteers?

[Truck4 48]

Fellas, keep it on topic.

[Guest]

In my experience in CT, parades are generally attended with little attention to what the coverage will be during and after the parade. For our Memorial day parade, all apparatus are placed in the parade, as well as all available members. The general membership voted that this would be done. For out of town parades, our nicest piece or two are sent, and the attendance of the parade might not be all the available members, however the people who attend are the ones who bother responding to calls anyways. The knowledge I have of surrounding departments is that it is the same, or possibly one piece is left with a few old timers to handle AFA calls. I remember the Bridgewater parade a few years ago where a few hours after the parade, while all the apparatus were still there, a very powerful thunderstorm swept through the Litchfield County and northern Fairfield county area. Because much of the apparatus and virtually all active members were at the parade, the ensuing response to the influx of calls was pretty disgraceful. And to comment of number of members who respond to calls, some of those members may not be interior certified, and just because someone is an 'interior' firefighter doesn't mean they have any intention of doing so. I once came out of a fire in CT where I needed to change my bottle, but didn't need to as the person standing outside the door offered me his pack...

[ckroll 101]

Can you list the studies that show where the big (but not fast) is better. NFPA and ISO have based every study and in ISO's case billions of rating dollars over the last 100 years to say this is not true.

Yes fast and big is best. but what is amazing is an understaffed "vocational" system with only lets say 10 firefighters is still rated by the insurance industry as better than an "avocation" sysem with 29 firefighters. This is based on 100 years of actual fire loss data.

Now can you tell me which "avocation" systems in the hudson valley "usually" get "fast and big" responses? I can think of only a few out of more than 100.

Insurance data is valuable, but far from a full picture. Homeowner's insurance data does not reflect response to auto accidents, wild fires, searches, wires down, ice storms. In fact, structure fires is a small percentage of what we do.

I am aware of no studies on the subject, but 4 fire fighters will have a hard time handling a running brush fire 1/2 mile from the road or a search for a lost person..... and heaven help the person who actually needs someone to fight fire if they are the second call in district.

No one has made the case that towns are poorly protected if some manpower and apparatus is out of district. As a rule, a team of 4 or 5 individuals who are well trained can handle initial responses. I think the balance of departments can manage that and a parade.

Is there evidence to the contrary? Dare I say it, silence is deafening....

[chris 18]

If the rig rolls anywhere your PPE should be on the rig, when company's go to parades you can't have your PPE on the rig or you will not win a trophy you might think judges could overlook this but no, not allowed. Also I have always thought parades were more for kids than anyone, and if you blow the horn or the siren like the kids want, you lose again. (unless it is your parade and you aren't being judged). So trophy's ruin it for the kids, sad huh. I do understand most concepts of the parade thing, just not my first choice.

[firemn23 8]

At this time I am no longer a volunteer fireman but just a resident of a volunteer town and I must say you both sound like you both need cheese for your whine. I live in an area similar to Westchester that could use a good dose of consolidation, and I have not gone to a meeting to ask why this isn't being looked into since the school districts are.

The voluntters on here that are bashing Chief Flynn for his comments get over yourselves and realize there is a problem. You are just showing everyone why change in the fire service has not occured. Also if you were so against parades one you wouldn't go, as I know a member on here who I used to volunteer with wouldn't and two you would speak up at a meeting. Finnaly they are not talking about just volunteers when they talk about regionalization. There are several career departments in Westchester that would be just as well served by regionization as volunteers departments would.

Career firemen I understand why you have the feelings you do, but if you have loved ones living somewhere that the fire service being provided is less than adequate do you tell them to move? Also doesn't the Commisioner of Yonkers live/lived in a volunteer town?

In the end I hope you both realize that neither of you has a perfect system. Is it right for a career department to call another department that is crazy far away or to not be adequately staffed? Is it right for every volunteer to not be properly trained as much as a career man?

Bnechis the county would be better served if you were its next Commisioner. You come well informed and have proactive ideas, especially for someone that is a member of a top class department.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Insurance data is valuable, but far from a full picture. Homeowner's insurance data does not reflect response to auto accidents, wild fires, searches, wires down, ice storms. In fact, structure fires is a small percentage of what we do.

True, but most of those calls require fewer responders than structure fires. While this has been moved to another thread, I would rather have 4 in 4 if I were bleeding in an MVA than 20 in 10.

No one has made the case that towns are poorly protected if some manpower and apparatus is out of district. As a rule, a team of 4 or 5 individuals who are well trained can handle initial responses. I think the balance of departments can manage that and a parade.

Is there evidence to the contrary? Dare I say it, silence is deafening....

But the case has been made that in many communities they can not field a full team when there is no parade somewhere else. Unfortinatly getting 4-5 is a problem for some and there is no balance. Lots of evidence you just need to look. I do not know about the silence, but many need to get their eyes checked.

[KCRD 6]

Career firemen I understand why you have the feelings you do, but if you have loved ones living somewhere that the fire service being provided is less than adequate do you tell them to move? Also doesn't the Commisioner of Yonkers live/lived in a volunteer town?

I can not tell my family to move, but they happen to live where sub-par service is provided, I will advise them of such and make preparations for it. Example: A LT in my firehouse was badly hurt on his property. He had very labored breathing from being crushed and it took 25 minutes for an ambulance. 25 MINUTES!!! that is completely unacceptable. If it was a heart attack, he would be dead. His family now plans to drive themselves to the hospital in the future because its faster.

The Yonkers fire comm lives in Yonkers.

[Guest]

Career firemen I understand why you have the feelings you do, but if you have loved ones living somewhere that the fire service being provided is less than adequate do you tell them to move? Also doesn't the Commisioner of Yonkers live/lived in a volunteer town?

If I lived in a subpar area, I would probably make sure that I have good insurance and maybe an attack line attached to a hydrant gate in the garage, because that would be your only chance in a lot of understaffed areas. And I honestly have the intention of driving a family member to the hospital in my hometown as that would be significantly quicker than calling the ambulance.

Edited February 22, 2010 by Slayer61

[flyboy14295 4]

And I honestly have the intention of driving a family member to the hospital in my hometown as that would be significantly quicker than calling the ambulance.

That has been happening a lot lately in Northern West...

[16fire5 693]

If the rig rolls anywhere your PPE should be on the rig, when company's go to parades you can't have your PPE on the rig or you will not win a trophy you might think judges could overlook this but no, not allowed. Also I have always thought parades were more for kids than anyone, and if you blow the horn or the siren like the kids want, you lose again. (unless it is your parade and you aren't being judged). So trophy's ruin it for the kids, sad huh. I do understand most concepts of the parade thing, just not my first choice.

The funniest thing about this is I believe that firemen's parades (No women in the fire service back then) were made to show off their equipment and how prepared for firefighting they were. Today an apparatus that is ready for fire duty probably won't place well in a parade.