Helmet Cam Video: N.J. FF's Close Call

[16fire5 693]

Helmet Cam Video: N.J. FF's Close Call

http://www.firehouse.com/topics/top-headlines/helmet-cam-video-nj-ffs-close-call

I don't even know where to start with this video. I'm usually the one saying it's easy to Monday morning qb and giving the benifit of the doubt but I think a good discussion on safety can be learned from this.

Right off the bat

1. We see the fire in and to the left. Yet there's a bunch of guys with a line and the nozzle on the little porch creating a traffic jam putting their regulators in. Get off to the side out of the venting smoke on a knee get your PPE squared away bleed the nozzle make entry and put out the fire.

2. A discussion is ongoing about who's inside how many? Obviously there are accountability issues. You must know who you have and a general idea where they are.

3. I hear a pass alarm going off as the guy is making his way to the back. Is anyone addressing it?

4. Why is a line operating from the exterior while interior operations are underway?

5. Obviously companies have been on scene at least a little while and a FAST and additional companies are being requested. This should have been requested quickly. We are more than 2 minutes into the video.

6. Differing people giving orders and they are contridictory. Honestly it looks to me as if the first and subsuquent lines should have gone through the front door. This is a basic concept. Protect the interior stairs and the escape route of the occupants. As the subsuquent lines come in they reinforce the first line, back it up, or go above for extension. This is a pretty fundamental concept of firefighting.

7. Now a member shows up in the window. They decide to move the ladder which under the circumstances is necessary.

8. Guy in the window has a haligan. He should have taken the window and the sash. I probably would have bought his some time by venting the heat and smoke a couple of feet above him while he waited for the ladder.

9. If you don't practice the basics like portable ladders it shows when the S* hits the fan. If you are going to ask the guy to come down head first the angle should have been decreased and footed. With all the people there with the ladder why didn't someone ascend to help the member down? You could have gone up and pinned the guy to the ladder for the descent. It wouldn't have been pretty but he probably wouldn't have fell.

10. Now the guy falls head first off the ladder. He is now out of the IDLH and immediate danger. I would have brought EMS back to him or had FF/EMTs board him. There was no good reason to handle him by dragging him to the front. It's a good idea at this point to question the downed FF about who was with him and their whereabouts.

11. Now the MAYDAY, first a roll call or PAR is needed a minute ago, assign a chief to supervise the mayday and give him resources and get him on another channel.

12. The practice of donning the facepiece without the regulator and walking around the fireground limits your field of vision greatly. Practice taking your knee and donning your facepiece and hood just prior to entering the IDLH. It allows you to see what your doing prior to entering, keeps your mask from fogging up, and limits your air consumption. At this fire its appears some firefighters may have used up their air prior to even operating inside.

My conclusions may not be entirely correct on all these items but this in no way seems like a smoothly run fire. No doubt these guys were faced with a working fire with entrappment and probably inadequete initial manpower. But if you train for the fundamental tasks you will be more efficent when adrenilin and emotions are high. Ever go to a fire when the fire department seems to be running the operation and not the fire running the fire department?

[FiftyOnePride 100]

I viewed this video earlier in the day.. I compliment them for establishing a FAST team, and I can only go by what the video shows only.

From what I saw in the video, we saw three sides of the structure, with only one ladder extended, not to say there wasn't one on the fourth, presumably the 'b' of the structure. I am not sure how many of those folks were FAST or just standby crews in staging waiting to do whatever, but I am sure there are a few rigs around them, why not ladder each side of the building for safe measure? A proactive FAST team as far IMO should be concerned with such matter themselves. Albeit no one is perfect when it comes to laddering - at least they had on raised! I have see in person and otherwise buildings without any type of laddering...

The firefighter looking to bail, I feel bad for him because he looked worn out - whether the heat and smoke got to him, or he ran out of air and took in some nasty stuff, or whatever - he looked exhausted to me, really hard to execute something like that in that condition I imagine. After a long day of training it is not so easy, I can only imagine having to do it when it hits the fan.

Circumstances are often left out of such videos, so events revolving the incident can only be judged on what was seen. I often hate critiquing a video because there is always the aspect of what we didn't see - so I am just stating that my conclusions are based on what I did see.

Stay safe everyone.

Edited February 18, 2010 by FiftyOnePride

[firefighter-70 27]

I think that a firefighter was still on the small roof in the rear when the ladder was pulled to be used for the bailout. This left him high and dry, the FAST team should have a ladder ready (this means close to the front of the building for fast team use only with their fast stokes & equipment).

It does not appear that they have a petzl/RIT type bailout system. This could have made a huge difference in the sequence of events!!!

[JFLYNN 681]

Helmet Cam Video: N.J. FF's Close Call

http://www.firehouse...-ffs-close-call

I don't even know where to start with this video. I'm usually the one saying it's easy to Monday morning qb and giving the benifit of the doubt but I think a good discussion on safety can be learned from this.

Right off the bat

1. We see the fire in and to the left. Yet there's a bunch of guys with a line and the nozzle on the little porch creating a traffic jam putting their regulators in. Get off to the side out of the venting smoke on a knee get your PPE squared away bleed the nozzle make entry and put out the fire.

2. A discussion is ongoing about who's inside how many? Obviously there are accountability issues. You must know who you have and a general idea where they are.

3. I hear a pass alarm going off as the guy is making his way to the back. Is anyone addressing it?

4. Why is a line operating from the exterior while interior operations are underway?

5. Obviously companies have been on scene at least a little while and a FAST and additional companies are being requested. This should have been requested quickly. We are more than 2 minutes into the video.

6. Differing people giving orders and they are contridictory. Honestly it looks to me as if the first and subsuquent lines should have gone through the front door. This is a basic concept. Protect the interior stairs and the escape route of the occupants. As the subsuquent lines come in they reinforce the first line, back it up, or go above for extension. This is a pretty fundamental concept of firefighting.

7. Now a member shows up in the window. They decide to move the ladder which under the circumstances is necessary.

8. Guy in the window has a haligan. He should have taken the window and the sash. I probably would have bought his some time by venting the heat and smoke a couple of feet above him while he waited for the ladder.

9. If you don't practice the basics like portable ladders it shows when the S* hits the fan. If you are going to ask the guy to come down head first the angle should have been decreased and footed. With all the people there with the ladder why didn't someone ascend to help the member down? You could have gone up and pinned the guy to the ladder for the descent. It wouldn't have been pretty but he probably wouldn't have fell.

10. Now the guy falls head first off the ladder. He is now out of the IDLH and immediate danger. I would have brought EMS back to him or had FF/EMTs board him. There was no good reason to handle him by dragging him to the front. It's a good idea at this point to question the downed FF about who was with him and their whereabouts.

11. Now the MAYDAY, first a roll call or PAR is needed a minute ago, assign a chief to supervise the mayday and give him resources and get him on another channel.

12. The practice of donning the facepiece without the regulator and walking around the fireground limits your field of vision greatly. Practice taking your knee and donning your facepiece and hood just prior to entering the IDLH. It allows you to see what your doing prior to entering, keeps your mask from fogging up, and limits your air consumption. At this fire its appears some firefighters may have used up their air prior to even operating inside.

My conclusions may not be entirely correct on all these items but this in no way seems like a smoothly run fire. No doubt these guys were faced with a working fire with entrappment and probably inadequete initial manpower. But if you train for the fundamental tasks you will be more efficent when adrenilin and emotions are high. Ever go to a fire when the fire department seems to be running the operation and not the fire running the fire department?

Good observations...I don't have much to add ... I don't like to Monday morning quarterback either but that video was painful and embarassing to watch.

Oh yeah, this whole idea of walking aroung outside the building with your facepiece on, which unfortunately this is not the first time I've ssen it on video, is actually comical...I'm happy to say that I've never seen that on any fireground I've been on, however if I ever do, someone is going to get a slap...

[wraftery 1,275]

Good observations, guys. When I see fireground ops that are this bad, I find it hard to comment at all, This one looks like chickens in a henhouse, all wandering aimlessly, each chicken doing its own thing.

What I did see, though, was that the guy with the helmet cam didn't actually do anything. He seeemed to just walk back and forth around the back yard. Some peeople are supposed to walk back and forth like this, but he wasn't one of them. He wasn't Division C, because he gave no orders to the troops or reports to the IC (if there was an IC). He wasn't Safety or else he would put a stop to this fiasco. I can only give him credit for not being in the way of the other chickens.

[psyanide 11]

Helmet mounted cams are a good idea in general for incidents exactly like this. Thanks for posting this 16fire5, and I think Monday morning QB'ing it is a good thing as it can lead to better procedures, training, etc. I hope the department uses it as a positive tool. I have two sets of saftey goggles with built in video capture. Given that mine are goggles and not helmet mounted, I cannot use them with a mask. I've yet to record a serious MVA with them, but they should be a valuable tool to improve procedures & training / post-incident analysis...

[Jason762 2]

I as well do not like Monday morning quareterbacking an incident which I was not a part of BUT, this appears to be a total breakdown of all the things "we" as firefighters train and prepare for. From the command structure (or lack there of), to the actions of the firefighters, everything just looks really, really bad. I actually grew up only about 15 minutes from where this incident occurred and started my fire service career in that area, so I have some knowledge of the departments involved. I agree with most of what has already been posted, but I will reinforce some problems I saw: the FF's on air or wearing their facepieces outside the building is ridiculous, the lack of ground ladders placed before the mayday is a problem, the member operating the line from the outside in the rear (wearing his mask, but no helmet) while other members appear to be making entry from the front, the lack of horizontal ventilation, making entry through a second floor window with a handline, the yelling and screaming by members in reference to placing the ladder for FF rescue yet none of them actually appeared to lend a hand, the ladder was not extended to reach the member in distress, no one ascended the ladder to assist the FF in need, the lack of patient assessment before dragging the downed member.

The list seems to go on and on and I don't even want to start to touch on what the heck the guy who was filming this was doing. He appeared to be aimlessly wandering around the fireground w/o any real purpose. At one ponint he was holding the line in the rear and looked like he was heading towards an area where fire was showing from a window like he was going to operate the line into it until someone redirected him to the ladder. He seemed to be on air and talking to himself and then started yelling "Mayday, Mayday, mayday" after the FF was out of the building and later was yelling "Firefighter down, firefighter down" as the injured member was being dragged to the front of the building. Apparently he was a member of the RIT. After the situation was handled there was more radio traffic about a Mayday, not sure what that was all about. This guy then walked back and forth behind the building about another 6 or so times.

Did anyone else notice the color, volume and velocity of the smoke issuing from around the member in distress as he exited the window? It appeared very light in color and not pushing with any great force or volume. To me this indicates that conditions were not that bad in that immediate area requiring that type of exit. I'm not sure what the bail-out situation was all about (out of air, deteriorating conditions, structural failure, etc.), but it didn't look like he was being chased out rapidly extending fire conditions. I certainly could be wrong though...

To be fair this footage only gives a very narrow view of what was truly happening, but I hope any departments that view this do not repeat the same mistakes in the future.

[firemoose827 324]

Some observations from the eight minutes I have witnessed;

1) No solid IC System set up. Some chiefs and lots of indians giving orders, INCLUDING law enforcement and ems...why did they pick that injured FF up and drag him?? What danger was he in once he was out? You need Incident Command and a clear chain of command set up with a staging are for extras that will inevitably end up "Wandering" around like nomads looking to do something. This creates chaos.

2) As mentioned, there is no acountability. I hear something once or twice that makes me cringe, "How many guys are in there?" "Whos missing?" Shouldnt that be a given FACT for all scenes with a clear accountability system?

3) There was still a full crew on the rear roof when the ladder was re-positioned, what happened if they needed to bail as well? Good thing they were only one story high on a rear porch roof and could still self extricate if needed but if they were in a second story window as well.....?? FAST should have been activated immediately and they should have set up ladders on all sides and cleared any debris like that rickety fence that they were all tripping over around the rear corner.

4) Proper mayday procedures. They called mayday AFTER the guy was out...why didnt the interior FF have a radio and why didnt he call for it?

Hope they are all ok after that, sorry to hear aout the victim.

[jd783 64]

another view of this job. looks like they had plenty of manpower

http://www.firesceneaudio.com/2010/01/firefighter-mayday-randolph-nj.html

I watched the other video and I see lines being directed into window 1 seems to by opposite of where the FF bailed out

[helicopper 1,050]

In a word, UNPROFESSIONAL.

[Bnechis 3,961]

The audio tape from this fire (note the tape is compressed so the times are not correct).

The most interesting statement is from a Lt. saying that they just lost contact with the victim (women) she was yelling out the back window. They knew where she was!

These three give a good overview of the scene. They did a great job blocking the ladder out and one can barly see the house because the shear number of chiefs, buffs and SCBA yard walkers that are filling this scene. Remember all of these firefighters were standing there while the victim died and they knew where she was and that she was alive when they arrived.

[chris 18]

The audio of the incident is just as bad as the video (and by bad I mean hard to listen to and even harder to watch the actions - painful) , at one point the commander looks to be dancing at the would be command post. There is no accountability from command to the divisions or even a question as to progress or not. I could of missed something but is this their first day on the job. There seemed to be no continuity or unified command. Someone needed to take control of the operation in the C/D corner, first a civilian then one of our own and the only one who looked like he gave a s*** was the firefighter who fell to the ground from the window and yes he looked exhausted because he was the only one doing anything worth a dam... The more I see the video and the audio the worse it is to stomach.

[ny10570 745]

This is a "bread and butter" fire that these guys completely lost their stuff on. So many problems except manpower. Randolph Township is good for a couple of fires a year, so these guys should have some experience. What cares me most, is this is it if you need the fire dept in that community. This wasn't one or two knuckle heads screwing up, it was a total failure. Nearly everything error that has been identified on here can be traced to a lack of training. When volunteers feel like they're under attack for accountability, training, etc this is why. This incident highlights nearly every problem with the volunteer fire service. Now let me be clear, I am not saying this is how it is in any Westchester FD. This is just the fear people have when bringing up these issues. Career FD's screw up as well, however there you can fire the people responsible and replace them. If you fire your volunteers, they're increasingly hard to replace.