Cops: Couple arrested after gun aimed at police

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

http://www.lohud.com/article/20100213/NEWS02/2130352/1018/Cops--Couple-arrested-after-gun-aimed-at-police

This is the second time in recent weeks where this has happened! When are we as Police Officers gonna realize that pointing a gun at me/us should not result in being tased! Yes, it has worked out in the Police favor in both these local cases, but it will bite us in the arse! Point a gun at me, and see what happens!! The big problem is, the public now thinks this is the right way to handle this situation. Now when a LEO responds with shooting a suspect instead of tasing, the out cry will be out of control. I was not at either situation and I don't want to Monday morning QB, I just want to keep us all safe!

Edited February 13, 2010 by ONEEYEDMIC

[SageVigiles 1,194]

I'm with you there, if I were the cop there, the headline would read "Man Shot After Gun Aimed at Police." But of course, the papers would never print it that way. It would likely read "Neighborhood Hero Gunned Down by Loose Cannon Cop"

But I think that stems from exactly what you said. Police Officers are becoming more and more conscious of the fact that damned near every officer who uses his weapon in the line of duty is being sued/arrested. Unfortunately the courts are upholding this garbage, and more and more Officers are being persecuted for defending themselves in the line of duty. As a result, I think more Officers are willing to stick to the low end of the force matrix, which unfortunately puts many more of them in danger.

It would be interesting for some criminologists to study that concept, since LODDs by gunfire are up. Are our Officers being killed because they are less apt to use deadly force, or are the streets really just that much more dangerous?

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

Like I was taught and told long ago! I would rather be judged by 12 then carried by 6! These pieces of garbage get away with way too much. News 12 and the Jouranl would put their high school picture in the paper/tv and show what how clean cut they were. Meanwhile, they would dig up any bit of dirt on me they could. White, black, green, blue, purple, etc.....I am going home at the end of my tour. Point a weapon at me and there is gonna be trouble for you!!

[efdcapt115 1,511]

I'm with you there, if I were the cop there, the headline would read "Man Shot After Gun Aimed at Police." But of course, the papers would never print it that way. It would likely read "Neighborhood Hero Gunned Down by Loose Cannon Cop"

But I think that stems from exactly what you said. Police Officers are becoming more and more conscious of the fact that damned near every officer who uses his weapon in the line of duty is being sued/arrested.

A search turned up quite a bit of support for police officers involved in fatal shootings across the country. One that immediately came to mind, was an incident that occured last year in the Myrtle Beach area. A School Resource Officer was forced to shoot a student who it turns out was intent on committing suicide by cop.

Officer cleared:

http://www.thesunnews.com/living/education/story/1216220.html

Here's a recent one in the Boston area. Officer cleared:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/new_hampshire/articles/2010/02/09/nh_ag_says_keene_police_shooting_justified/

And Salt Lake City, Utah. Officer cleared:

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14343459

The Chicago area. Officer cleared:

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2009/12/authorities-deem-rockford-police-shooting-justified.html

And Pennsylvania. Officer cleared:

http://thetimes-tribune.com/news/da-says-police-shooting-was-justified-1.65545

Just as a counter-point to what you are saying Sage, I think it's helpful for us to see there is still support for cops and the responsibility they have to shoulder to keep us safe.

[x635 4,066]

1. Menacing Police Officers? What about Attempted Murder or Deadly Conduct?

2. Tasing someone with a gun?

Did they capture this on the dash cam or mic?

Headline should have read "Man Plays Quick Draw With Officers And Loses"

But we have no idea what really happened out there, and the officers obviously made a good judgement.

[LTNRFD 266]

From the Journal News.........

"Dabbs pulled out a .380-caliber handgun and pointed it at officers, who then Tasered the suspect, police said.

Dabbs and Brown then ran into B & D Deli. Brown fled out of the back of the eatery as Dabbs was taken into custody, police said.

Brown took the weapon and threw it in the back of the deli, police said."

By this reported info, it seems the taser really didn't do the job. The suspect was able to get up and flee.

I thought the taser was to immolbilize the suspect enough for the police to cuff/restrain. If he was able to get away, he sure could have fired his gun at the police. Maybe he could have fired while he was being tasered.

Is this normal ???? Can the suspect get away while being tasered ?????

[helicopper 1,050]

If the Taser barbs didn't penetrate the suspects outer clothing it is possible that it wouldn't immobilize him. We don't have all the info so maybe a second officer was covering the Taser operator with a firearm? Who knows.

All I can say is I'm very happy with the outcome. Suspects in custody and no cops injured.

[JJB531 652]

http://www.ignatius-piazza-front-sight.com/2010/01/18/ignatius-piazza-stop-screaming-start-shooting/#video

The video link was taken from a dashcam from a Deputy's patrol vehicle in Georgia. I'm sure a lot of you have already seen this video, and it has unfortunately become a popular training video for law enforcement. It is perfect proof that the threat of deadly physical force needs to be matched with the same, not a less lethal option.

[helicopper 1,050]

http://www.ignatius-piazza-front-sight.com/2010/01/18/ignatius-piazza-stop-screaming-start-shooting/#video

The video link was taken from a dashcam from a Deputy's patrol vehicle in Georgia. I'm sure a lot of you have already seen this video, and it has unfortunately become a popular training video for law enforcement. It is perfect proof that the threat of deadly physical force needs to be matched with the same, not a less lethal option.

That video is a vivid reminder of just how dangerous law enforcement really is and the complete disregard for the value of human life in our society today. I think almost every cop in the country sees videos like that in training every year but hopefully they are becoming fewer and farther between thanks to improved training and a change in mindset.

[INIT915 1,119]

Well, without knowing any details, as clearly no one else here seems to either, I will not be second guessing the PPD officers. They are a very active agency, who see their fair-share of activity, and I have no reason to suspect they handled this situation with anything other then the utmost level of professionalism.

Anyone who works in Peekskill/Cortlandt/Buchanan knows the Dabbs/Brown crew on a first name basis...

[ex-commish 490]

Are our Officers being killed because they are less apt to use deadly force, or are the streets really just that much more dangerous?

Unfortunatly I believe this is the case. Seems our liberal society is more concerned about protecting sc** bags like these two than those who are there to protect us. Than once they are in prison society is even more concerned how they are treated. I also cannot judge what these officers did I am just glad they were not hurt.

[JJB531 652]

Well, without knowing any details, as clearly no one else here seems to either, I will not be second guessing the PPD officers. They are a very active agency, who see their fair-share of activity, and I have no reason to suspect they handled this situation with anything other then the utmost level of professionalism.

Anyone who works in Peekskill/Cortlandt/Buchanan knows the Dabbs/Brown crew on a first name basis...

I don't think anyone is second guessing the officers involved in this incident or their professionalism, nor should anyone because without being there we don't know what transpired. But unforunately this incident, as well as the New Rochelle incident does send the wrong message to the general public.

When police involved shooting incidents occur, I frequently see questions being asked by people along the lines of, "Why couldnt they shoot the gun out of his hand?", "Why didn't they just shoot him in the leg?", and now, "Why didn't they just Taser him?". Unfortunately, when it comes to force-on-force encounters, the general public only knows what they see in Hollywood and the occasional reality TV show such as Cops. Obviously, if true police officers possessed the skills of Steven Seagal, Sylvester Stallone, or any one of the many "action hero" police officers in Hollywood, all we'd have to do is look at criminals and they would surrender. And reality shows such as Cops rarely show force-on-force encounters which result in the use of deadly physical force. In fact, I can only recall one episode where a police officer in Massachusetts shot a perp who charged him with a knife in the middle of the roadway.

The problem with applying a less lethal option against an armed adversary who has threatened deadly physical force is that it looks all great in the paper and in the eyes of the public, but what about the next Police Officer who appropriately applies deadly physical force to an armed adversary? Members of the general public, especially critics of Law Enforcement, as well as the media, will drag that Police Officer through the mud, questioning why he/she couldn't just disarm the perpetrator. Law Enforcement today has become more concerned with looking good in the eyes of the public and critics of Law Enforcement tactics, which in turn is jeopardizing the lives of Police Officers, as well as the reputation of certain Police Officers who use appropriate tactics and follow the use-of-force continuum.

With that being said, the Officers involved in this incident should be applauded because they did do a great job. They were able to disarm and apprehend an armed subject without injury to themselves or any members of the public.

Remember, it was our fantastic current Governor who, prior to being Governor, introduced a bill that would have forced Police Officers to "shoot to wound".

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

I don't think anyone is second guessing the officers involved in this incident or their professionalism, nor should anyone because without being there we don't know what transpired. But unforunately this incident, as well as the New Rochelle incident does send the wrong message to the general public.

When police involved shooting incidents occur, I frequently see questions being asked by people along the lines of, "Why couldnt they shoot the gun out of his hand?", "Why didn't they just shoot him in the leg?", and now, "Why didn't they just Taser him?". Unfortunately, when it comes to force-on-force encounters, the general public only knows what they see in Hollywood and the occasional reality TV show such as Cops. Obviously, if true police officers possessed the skills of Steven Seagal, Sylvester Stallone, or any one of the many "action hero" police officers in Hollywood, all we'd have to do is look at criminals and they would surrender. And reality shows such as Cops rarely show force-on-force encounters which result in the use of deadly physical force. In fact, I can only recall one episode where a police officer in Massachusetts shot a perp who charged him with a knife in the middle of the roadway.

The problem with applying a less lethal option against an armed adversary who has threatened deadly physical force is that it looks all great in the paper and in the eyes of the public, but what about the next Police Officer who appropriately applies deadly physical force to an armed adversary? Members of the general public, especially critics of Law Enforcement, as well as the media, will drag that Police Officer through the mud, questioning why he/she couldn't just disarm the perpetrator. Law Enforcement today has become more concerned with looking good in the eyes of the public and critics of Law Enforcement tactics, which in turn is jeopardizing the lives of Police Officers, as well as the reputation of certain Police Officers who use appropriate tactics and follow the use-of-force continuum.

With that being said, the Officers involved in this incident should be applauded because they did do a great job. They were able to disarm and apprehend an armed subject without injury to themselves or any members of the public.

Remember, it was our fantastic current Governor who, prior to being Governor, introduced a bill that would have forced Police Officers to "shoot to wound".

Joe that was my point exactly! I have learned that the Journal News may have shockinly reported the incident wrong! Apparently and this is only what I heard, the suspect had fled the area and was later subdued and arrested by the Police! Gun may have already been gone at that point. Call was originally for menacing! I think too many people in this Country are scared of what will happen if they do their job! Can't say what I would or will do. Hopefully what I am trained to do. Can't get blood from a stone!!

[INIT915 1,119]

Joe that was my point exactly! I have learned that the Journal News may have shockinly reported the incident wrong! Apparently and this is only what I heard, the suspect had fled the area and was later subdued and arrested by the Police! Gun may have already been gone at that point. Call was originally for menacing! I think too many people in this Country are scared of what will happen if they do their job! Can't say what I would or will do. Hopefully what I am trained to do. Can't get blood from a stone!!

Oh, thanks for clarifying your point. Since you had said specifically "This is the second time in recent weeks where this has happened! When are we as Police Officers gonna realize that pointing a gun at me/us should not result in being tased!," it probably appeared to most that you were directly referencing THIS incident and the actions of THESE Officers. At least it did to me. [/sarcasm]

[Guest alsfirefighter]

First I agree with my 2 colleagues (who also happen to be friends) that deadly force gets responding with deadly force.

However being I was working last night and am close personal friends with both officers who were involved in the initial incident and ended up going into the PD to assist within my capabilities as a tactical medic both acted accordingly to the situation at hand. I really don't feel I need to justify the action of 2 excellent and experienced police officers both who came from NYPD however they didn't respond with deadly force due to the situation at the time didn't present itself when the incident starting transgressing rapidly. They did an amazing job and all of my PD brothers in bringing both of them into custody.

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

Let me make something clear, I was not in anyway saying these officers did a bad job! I read that article and posted it on here. The other incident happened in New Rochelle back in Jan and was almost the same situation except that a gun was pointed at LEO's according to the paper! I want everyone to be safe and remember, if you point a gun at me, I am gonna point mine at you, and fire!!