Mohegan Fire 2/8/10

[bigyellowtaxi 6]

The first thought that comes to mind is; under your scenario, where is the money supposed to come from to pay for the hiring of more paid FF's? Remember we are in a recession; towns and villages are finding that monies they expected to collect are way off from projections in many cases. When it comes down to hire more FF's or keep taxes down, the average citizen will most likely choose the latter. ISO ratings notwithstanding, perhaps consolidation might be a temporary fix to the problem but again its a tough sell due to the "empire" syndrome that many Fire Districts suffer from.

That being said i'm a little perplexed about volunteers FF not liking that they are being restricted by the "laws that keep them safe". Are you making your statement based on discussions held with every single fire fighter who's a member of Lake Mohegan? Or did you just talk to a handful? And did you talk with every single paid FF or just a couple who felt they didn't get much respect from the volunteers? I'd find it very difficult to believe that "every" single volunteer firefighter felt that they were being restricted by the "laws that keep them safe".

Finally, as a resident of the Lake Mohegan Fire District you are certainly entitled to proper fire protection; I'd suggest, unless you've already done so, that you attend meetings of the Board and express your concerns to them so if for nothing else at least they know that there are citizens who are concerned about the quality of fire protection that they receive.

What is ISO and where can I find it?

I am not looking at new money just replace the FFs that have retired.

Yes you are right I only got opinions from those I spoke to. I will be speaking to one of their recent retires in an hour or so and maybe get another view.

Since there is apparently no accountability for volunteers I would be a bit intimidated to go to a meeting and not get help to my house when I need help. Don't say this doesn't happen because I've seen that personally. I just figured that there is always one bad apple that would stoop that low.

I went to http://www.lmfdpro.com/vote.htm

There is no mention of Volunteers and there seems to be many concerns there.

I then went to http://moheganfire.com/

There is no mention of paid FFs and there seems to be nothing wrong everything is OK.

I have gotten pretty cynical in my old age. I have gotten this old by not believing everything I read in thenewspapers and not drinking anyone elses KOOL-AID

Edited February 10, 2010 by bigyellowtaxi

[JFLYNN 681]

The first thought that comes to mind is; under your scenario, where is the money supposed to come from to pay for the hiring of more paid FF's? Remember we are in a recession; towns and villages are finding that monies they expected to collect are way off from projections in many cases. When it comes down to hire more FF's or keep taxes down, the average citizen will most likely choose the latter. ISO ratings notwithstanding, perhaps consolidation might be a temporary fix to the problem but again its a tough sell due to the "empire" syndrome that many Fire Districts suffer from.

That being said i'm a little perplexed about volunteers FF not liking that they are being restricted by the "laws that keep them safe". Are you making your statement based on discussions held with every single fire fighter who's a member of Lake Mohegan? Or did you just talk to a handful? And did you talk with every single paid FF or just a couple who felt they didn't get much respect from the volunteers? I'd find it very difficult to believe that "every" single volunteer firefighter felt that they were being restricted by the "laws that keep them safe".

Finally, as a resident of the Lake Mohegan Fire District you are certainly entitled to proper fire protection; I'd suggest, unless you've already done so, that you attend meetings of the Board and express your concerns to them so if for nothing else at least they know that there are citizens who are concerned about the quality of fire protection that they receive.

A fire Department is an ESSENTIAL service. It is not a luxury. If volunteers are able to get the job done for less money than it would cost to employ career Firefighters that is great for everone! However, I believe that we have already established that the situation in Mohegan and in many parts of the lower Hudson Valley is broken. This ESSENTIAL service is not being provided in an adequate or timely manner, and it is not being provided for less money even!

If any other ESSENTIAL service is not being provided to the citizenry in an adequate or timely manner, adjustments are made (this can be raising taxes, consolidation, regionalization, cutting in other areas and shifting financial resources to the area of need, etc.). In fact, this is done all the time for even non-essential services. The problem with many (not all) volunteer Fire Departments in this area is that they perpetuate an illusion that the public is being protected in an adequate and timely manner and this impedes the efforts of those who strive to truly improve the delivery of efficient fire, rescue, and emergency medical services.

This situation in Mohegan is a classic example. For the most part, the public believes what one of the initial posters on this thread purports...this was a "good stop", they "did the best they could", and sometimes bad things happen. In reality, the situation is far different as stated by bigyellowtaxi in a recent post...that is the true story and that kind of information needs to be continually gotten out to the public and members of the fire service in order for us to effect real change. Many of you on here can help in these efforts if you so choose.

Remember the old expression which I will tone down a bit as appropriate for this situation..."bad things happen when good men do nothing"...

[16fire5 693]

Does the Mohegan Fire Department do a recall for off duty career firefighters? I would think this would get interior firefighters (since all career firefighters are interior) to the scene. I know this is a stop gap measure until they can increase staffing. How about increasing staffing during the day? The Dutchess guys can correct me if I'm wrong but I believe this is done there in LaGrange and Arlington?

[Grumpy 1]

He is the Battalion Chief for the area. (Batt. 17)

And a very well thought out post.

I believe E. DiBartolo is the W. Co. Fire Coordinator for Batt. 17, not a Bat. Chief and his job is handling Mutual Aid.

[MoFire390 118]

you are correct grumpy...Eric is the batt. Coordinator...

the only thing i dont understand is why everyone is making posts about the mohegan fires that have been going on?? yes seven structure fires since thanksgiving has made everyone start to listen to see what they have, could be making some of us "what if" or "how come"...it shouldnt matter they were sent to a location to put the "wet stuff on the red stuff"...is that not what some of the SFI's use as termonoligy now a days?? somone posted about the time of day..believe it or not time of day is a big thing!!! especially on a monday and the location of the call..times have changed if we arent able to accept that maybe we need to rethink the reason of us being members in a volunteer department... if we cant help our communites that we volunteer in how can we help another department in a neighboring town.

i have yet to see a post about another department that has had a structure fire where some of you like to call it "man power issues" take place... its the real world people not some fantacy world we live in...nothing ever goes right.

~Ken

[bigyellowtaxi 6]

Thanks chief and grumpy

[BFD2553 75]

Some of the volunteers that showed up were not “inside firefighters”(which means that they are not allow to enter a building fire. WHAT!!!!!

There are exterior-only firefighters within the volunteer service. There are reasons for this which they are well aware of, and there are plenty of tasks on the fireground they can do.

) Some of the Outside firefighters refused setup the hydrant and opted to take pictures instead. This action caused one of the paid firefighters to go take care of the hydrant and took him away from inside firefighting.

Any firefighter who, if qualified to do this task, and refused such an order should be ordered off the fire scene and disciplined by the chief at a later date.

The chief claims that the fire got a good headway (news12). I bet it did while you were waiting there for more people to show up!

Actually- the fire was burning for quite some time before anyone noticed and called in the alarm as previously posted.

Even if the Commissioners hired 6 paid firefighters tomorrow they would still have to be trained and this would take time. I can hardly believe that such a great dept as Mohegan has been reduced to not being able to fight their own fires, because of should short sighted Commissioners.

If this needs to be done, then it should be done.

I am getting a lesson in fire dept politics and the games people play with others lives.

You live in the district. Make yourself heard at the meetings or run for a commissioner's seat yourself.

Edited February 11, 2010 by BFD2553

[efdcapt115 1,511]

you are correct grumpy...Eric is the batt. Coordinator...

the only thing i dont understand is why everyone is making posts about the mohegan fires that have been going on?? yes seven structure fires since thanksgiving has made everyone start to listen to see what they have, could be making some of us "what if" or "how come"..

Some of the short comings of the Mohegan FD have come to light with this recent spate of working fires. Among them, 7 positions apparently left vacant, 3 fire stations staffed with one firefighter alone in each station, and the apparently consistent practice of putting a mutual aid "FAST" company to work as a means of supplementing their inability of adequate fire attack.

For starters.......

somone posted about the time of day..believe it or not time of day is a big thing!!! especially on a monday and the location of the call..times have changed if we arent able to accept that maybe we need to rethink the reason of us being members in a volunteer department... if we cant help our communites that we volunteer in how can we help another department in a neighboring town.

You lost me after the word "monday." But WHAT has changed if a department cannot field an adequate number of firefighters for a working fire (if this is the case)? The answer is apparent is it not? That community might be in serious trouble if it cannot field a firefighting force effective enough to suppress a "simple" working fire. What about (as someone already pointed out earlier) a school, an elderly care facility, or another place of public assembly?

i have yet to see a post about another department that has had a structure fire where some of you like to call it "man power issues" take place... its the real world people not some fantacy world we live in...nothing ever goes right.

There have been multiple threads of discussion regarding fire emergencies within Westchester County on this board, and manpower has and is an ongoing issue in this forum.

And sometimes, even in the fire service, with adequate preparation and an effective workforce; things can go right. Peoples' lives have/can/and will continue to be saved, peoples' homes and businesses shall continue to be saved, and that is no fantasy.

[Bnechis 3,961]

But what i like is that now there are vollies that are starting to see the issues and are contributing to this thread without getting uptight. Hey Chief Flynn, i think this is what you strive for, for people to wake up and see the issues facing the fire service. So bravo for getting many of the members here to wake up.

Nice to see. As Chief Flynn, ALS, Myself and others have been trying to bring people around to this.

On a side note: Westchester is one of the, if not the highest taxed County in this great nation. How is it that soo many States have County run fire and ems depts? LA County (CA), Clark County (NV), Miami-Dade (FL), Anne-Arrundel (MD), Baltimore County (MD) just to name a few. These are all County wide, County run depts that work! Most are 100% career, with the exception of some in Maryland and a few others. Why is it that Westchester couldnt accomplish this? Just something to think about.

Because we spend our money on too many trucks, too many stations, etc. We have a number of depts that cover 1 square mile with 3 engines, a tower ladder, a rescue and 3 chiefs and they are only handling a couple 100 calls per year (1 or 2 and actual fire). All of those counties cover larger areas with fewer rigs, but they are fully staffed, properly trained and backed up within less time than it takes for some of the VFD's here to get a crew out the door. Also how good do you get when you only do a few calls each year?

He told me that this has been getting worse for some years. The Board of Commissioners have turned the focus of the dept towards medical response. The paid staff has been cut by 30% hoping that maybe the volunteers would pick up the ball. (didn't happen)

Great so now what? Just let everyone suffer, good planning.

Some of the volunteers that showed up were not “inside firefighters”(which means that they are not allow to enter a building fire. WHAT!!!!!) Some of the Outside firefighters refused setup the hydrant and opted to take pictures instead. This action caused one of the paid firefighters to go take care of the hydrant and took him away from inside firefighting. BRILLIANT! This left one Capt and two Firefighters to fight the fire. There is a difference of opinion but it seems all safety teams ( FAST) were used to fight the fire.

Lets sope calling exterior only personnel firefighters. Lets call them helpers. Its great that they can pack some hose and change an SCBA bottle or make a hydrant to free up real firefighters. Oh wait, they can't or won't do that. How much of your tax dollars are going to them? Your taxes paid for their turnouts, medicals, LOSAP, and a host of other perks and MY TAXES and those of all the career communities paid for the training that DES is providing for them. Oh police officer please remove this buff to the other side of the fire line, he is not one of us.

The chief claims that the fire got a good headway (news12). I bet it did while you were waiting there for more people to show up! Apparently the paid firefighters have complained about unsafe working conditions and the volunteers don’t like that OSHA said that they must follow a 2in2out policy. This was being violated until recently. I don’t want my house to burn down, but I don’t want any one killed for my house even more.

Well said. So the volunteers that do not go into the fire building do not like the state law that requires enough people outside who are willing to go in, how ironic.

The morale in Mohegan is low and the commissioners are turning a blind eye. The volunteers FF do not like that they are being restricted by the laws that keep them safe.

The morale issue has been a problem there for over 8 years. The career firefighters were included in the Westchester Special Operations Task Force and were trained in Yonkers to be Hazmat/WMD Technician and were going to become squad 7. But after completing all of the training and getting federal money to fund the equipment, the commissioners determined that having the ability to respond to a chemical emergency would hurt the dept moale to the point that they ordered the career staff to drop out. Silly of me to think that when an elected official swore on a bible that they would do what is in the best interest of the community, they would actually keep politics out.

The first thought that comes to mind is; under your scenario, where is the money supposed to come from to pay for the hiring of more paid FF's? Remember we are in a recession; towns and villages are finding that monies they expected to collect are way off from projections in many cases.

Since these vacancies occured over 7 years and most during the best economic times we have seen in decades, I suspect this has nothing to do with the recession.

ISO ratings notwithstanding, perhaps consolidation might be a temporary fix to the problem but again its a tough sell due to the "empire" syndrome that many Fire Districts suffer from.

Its a very tough sell when you can not even convince the members that they have a problem when a department with 6 frontline rigs can not handle a house fire without calling the world to help. Consolidation is not a temporary fix, its a long term solution to a growing problem.

[MoFire390 118]

Some of the short comings of the Mohegan FD have come to light with this recent spate of working fires. Among them, 7 positions apparently left vacant, 3 fire stations staffed with one firefighter alone in each station, and the apparently consistent practice of putting a mutual aid "FAST" company to work as a means of supplementing their inability of adequate fire attack.

For starters.......

You lost me after the word "monday." But WHAT has changed if a department cannot field an adequate number of firefighters for a working fire (if this is the case)? The answer is apparent is it not? That community might be in serious trouble if it cannot field a firefighting force effective enough to suppress a "simple" working fire. What about (as someone already pointed out earlier) a school, an elderly care facility, or another place of public assembly?

There have been multiple threads of discussion regarding fire emergencies within Westchester County on this board, and manpower has and is an ongoing issue in this forum.

And sometimes, even in the fire service, with adequate preparation and an effective workforce; things can go right. Peoples' lives have/can/and will continue to be saved, peoples' homes and businesses shall continue to be saved, and that is no fantasy.

actually mohegan's stations with the exception of Croton ave station have 2-3 career firefighters stationed. is it enough? its not my place to ask

sorry to have lost you on that but what i was trying to say was on a work day in the middle of the day how can it be said that manpower is an issue. and with the location of this fire (located maybe 3/4 of a mile from the putnam boarder) is diffacult as well...

what do u call a "simple" fire??

if your department has short man power do u not put the fast team to work and call an additional??? has mohegan had to do it many times this year...yes do we know why...i dont i havent been on any of their scenes to ask why..thats not my job...and its not ours either.

and if you have an engine and manpower on scene (your fast team) why not put them to work?? i think its alot easier to do that then to wait 5-10 min before an additional engine with manpower (non quallified or does not have a fast team) shows up.

[Remember585 815]

actually mohegan's stations with the exception of Croton ave station have 2-3 career firefighters stationed. is it enough? its not my place to ask

Ken, it's only one FF per station, with 3 at HQ. Sometimes there's only 2 at HQ.

sorry to have lost you on that but what i was trying to say was on a work day in the middle of the day how can it be said that manpower is an issue. and with the location of this fire (located maybe 3/4 of a mile from the putnam boarder) is diffacult as well...

Mohegan's district is very large, and thanks to some of the busier roads it can take a while for people to arrive on scene. Because of this, many feel that either putting additional paid or volunteer members on the rigs would alleviate that.

what do u call a "simple" fire??

To me, it's your "normal" room & contents job that generally gets knocked down in minutes. Others may have different opinions. One thing everyone should remember is that no fire should be considered "routine."

if your department has short man power do u not put the fast team to work and call an additional??? has mohegan had to do it many times this year...yes do we know why...i dont i havent been on any of their scenes to ask why..thats not my job...and its not ours either.

and if you have an engine and manpower on scene (your fast team) why not put them to work?? i think its alot easier to do that then to wait 5-10 min before an additional engine with manpower (non quallified or does not have a fast team) shows up.

I think what people are saying is that an IC should recognize they need manpower sooner and call for it, rather than pulling a FAST and leaving those working the job without proper support of a FAST. We've been put to work on several occassions, but our SOG states that we will not abandon FAST duties unless relieved by another team or if we have personnel to "split" duties. An example of this would be the last fire in Montrose we responded to. We retained four members as a FAST (even though it went to an exterior operation) and used 8-10 others to man the two 2 1/2" lines, pump the Engine, drive the Tanker and hook the hydrant.

We had an incident last year where a car struck a gas main, it ignited and started to spread to the building. I requested our "10-75" which brings a FAST from Ossining, and also requested an Engine from the VA because my interior crews reported back to me that they were having trouble getting into the 2nd floor apartments due to the amount of crap in them. For us, we generally put enough personnel on the scene to handle our own fires, and only call Mutual Aid for a FAST, Cascade, Tankers or additional hose. Some gave me crap for calling stuff in, but until it is under control, I'd rather have units on scene in staging instead of waiting the additional 10 minutes.

We know that we may need people right away from out of town due to a shortage of our own, and we will call another Engine for that, leaving the FAST alone.

Edited February 11, 2010 by Remember585

[bfxfd 8]

Mutual aid is a luxury not a right. What would of happened if the surrounding departments were not available? Would the fire department just stand there while the house burns to the ground? Departments should look at themselves and determine whether or not they can handle a standard single family house fire by themselves. This is not to say that mutual aid should never be called in 99 percent of incidents it should. Mutual aid is a great thing and should be utilized but if the department is relying on other departments to pick up the slack then there are serious issues that need to be addressed.

[efdcapt115 1,511]

actually mohegan's stations with the exception of Croton ave station have 2-3 career firefighters stationed. is it enough? its not my place to ask

sorry to have lost you on that but what i was trying to say was on a work day in the middle of the day how can it be said that manpower is an issue. and with the location of this fire (located maybe 3/4 of a mile from the putnam boarder) is diffacult as well...

what do u call a "simple" fire??

if your department has short man power do u not put the fast team to work and call an additional??? has mohegan had to do it many times this year...yes do we know why...i dont i havent been on any of their scenes to ask why..thats not my job...and its not ours either.

and if you have an engine and manpower on scene (your fast team) why not put them to work?? i think its alot easier to do that then to wait 5-10 min before an additional engine with manpower (non quallified or does not have a fast team) shows up.

In my opinion a "simple" fire would be a room and contents involved in fire, in an unoccupied, single story, type 3 or 5, private dwelling, with no extension, and no water supply issues.

Before I retired, to my knowledge my job never as a practice put a FAST company, particularly a mutual-aid FAST to work, unless as required for a firefighter in distress. It should be illegal (even though it is a violation of the Standard, it doesn't have the teeth it should) to put a FAST company to work for other than FAST purposes with no other company on scene to IMMEDIATELY take it's place. If a firefighter is killed or injured because no FAST is available, the lawyers are going to feast on the IC, and the department. Just my opinion.

[antiquefirelt 994]

what do u call a "simple" fire??

Personally, I'd say that at a minimum your FD, Batt., or District, should be organized such that you can handle at least a one alarm call without any other agency assisting. This doesn't mean striking multiple alarms for a room and contents, it means being able to handle basic fire attack, search, vent and the subsequent apparatus and ICS needs in PD's. On multiple dwellings or commercial fires, the potential must be considered so a heightened response is may be necessary. Anything less means that your taxing outside agencies to help your problems, which has significant potential for negative impact.

If you can't do it, then consolidate and make the agency bigger (regionalized FD). Auto aid is most often not close to as good as in-house aid. By this I mean companies that operate under the same command structure, SOGs, training and standards are far better than neighbors helping neighbors. Anything else is always slightly suspect (if not highly).

It's not impossible for auto or mutual aid to be really good, it's just improbable.

[xchief2x 79]

As Grumpy stated in his post # 37 Eric is a Mutual aid coordinator (that is our proper title) the designation of Battalion was created years back, prior to that the deputy coordinators were county car #. THe mutual aid coordinators are battalion 10 to 19 and we all are assigned specific areas. The position of mutual aid coordinator is basically that of a resource officer, to get the IC what they need. This post is titled Mohegan fire 2/8/10, however I will not take a shot at them or any other department anywhere career,vollie or combination. It has been said in this thread and several others about consolidation, when the hell is everyone going to wake up and see that numbers are dwindling both career and volunteer (not all departments, but many). Why isn't consolidation discussed seriously? A one word answer - EGO. Some people in authority need to pull the heads out of their a** and look at what they are REALLY providing everywhere. This is something that should be looked at from the inside before (like a lot of the regualtions & standards we have now) are forced upon us by outside or government agencies. This is all basically a turf war kind of thing from my point of view, personally I don't care what the name of the department is on the side of the truck that pulls up IFO my home as long as they know what they are doing when they get off their truck. ANother area where consolidation might help, look at all the different organiztions in Westchester (volunteer side) and we wonder why the volunteer service isn't heard by our elected officals. How about 1 organization with different branches or divisions, maybe we would get taken seriously. All this would be great, but let's face it fantasy island does not exist!

[Healz 30]

Hi everyone

I am a recent retiree from the Dist in question. You all know by my nickname, who I am. I have read the post on this subject and can agree with some and wonder about others.

I went to the Commissioners meeting last night and was surprised at the conversation that took place. Since this was a public meeting I can discuss what most of the meet was about. There are training problems here, the Commissioners have tried without success to train 100% of the volunteers FFs. They have tried for over 2 years to get everyone in sync with the state and federal standards. They have let FFs go and now they have the wolf at the door and must expel members and notify them by certified mail. These infractions are mostly for noncompliance(OSHA, Repritor test, bail-out, policy, Etc) The Commissioners discussed at length and were disappointed that not all volunteers made the grade after 2 years.

I can no longer make suggestions as a FF, but as a concerned citizen. I can only tell you how I feel and my experience with this district. As a CFF I did not like when Police Officers or Career firefighters from other Depts volunteered here and I knew that if I went to thier jobs to volunteer it would be a differant story. I was told by one career firefighter that he volunteered because he'll never make rank at his job, but could be a chief here. The one eyed man is king in the land of the blind. This CFF also had better benefits then I and better pay, but did not mind stepping on my toes when it came down to benefits for me and my family. Which made me very defensive of my job.

After speaking to some CFFs and VFFs I now know that there has been problem at most of the recent fires. The blame game is going around in circles. There was a shortage of FFs to launch an interior attack and the few VFFs that could respond at least you were there. I am not going to second guess any decissions that were made by IC because I was not there. He made decissions on what he had and what he seen.

Standard staffing at this time is:

2 CFFs @ HQ(L35,E25?,R32)

1 CFF @ Sta-2(R75,E253,L10)

1 CFF @ Sta-3 (R80,E254)

1 CFF @ Sta-4 (U11,U50,E25?)

There has been cutbacks and there has not been any CFFs hired in almost 7 years. Is this a sign of the times I don't think so. Times were good and they still refused to hire. Guys say here that CFFs shortages are a sign of the times, well stand back and think are you working more, maybe a second job, whatever, your availablity to respond is alot less. They'er 7 positions that should be covered 4 shifts and 3 vacation floaters. There used to be 3 till 60c took dispatch 1 was dropped from HQ. As CFFs retired or transfered to other depts vacation floaters were put in permenent posts all openings are now covered by OT. OT will probably be the next complaint that the CFFs make to much. We all know that we went into this career for love and not the money. The CFFs that work @ Sta 2,3,4 are alone for their entire shift. The work force is shifting from 20s thru 40s to late 30s thru 50s, this is a problem. Without that shot of young blood more injuries and more absenteeism will happen causing a financial problem for the district.

As a concerned citizen I would hope that the career ranks are returned to there full strenght. That the second Lieutenant position be replaced so that the strain of training 32 CFFs and 60 or so VFFs to standards could be accomplished in a timely manner. They are other concerns that I have but these seem to be the most pressing at this time. By bringing the training standards for VFFs up to regulated specks this would make a more harmonious fire district for everyone.

There are facts and opinions in this post if you wish to call me out on any of these please do. I will try to answer your intelligent questions.

Edited February 11, 2010 by Healz

[16fire5 693]

Before I retired, to my knowledge my job never as a practice put a FAST company, particularly a mutual-aid FAST to work, unless as required for a firefighter in distress. It should be illegal (even though it is a violation of the Standard, it doesn't have the teeth it should) to put a FAST company to work for other than FAST purposes with no other company on scene to IMMEDIATELY take it's place. If a firefighter is killed or injured because no FAST is available, the lawyers are going to feast on the IC, and the department. Just my opinion.

Capt. your 100% right the FAST should be reserved for firefighters in distress. I believe it would have teeth in the case of Mohegan since they have recently been cited by PESH for respiratory standard violations. Not having the required standby team at an IDLH would probably be considered a repeat violation by PESH and the potential always exists for serious repercutions. And of course the lawyers would have a field day.

To the Mohegan members take Chief Flynn's advice and don't take it personally no one on this thread questioned the effort or the tactics taken by members. The discussion for the most part involves the unsafe pratice of operating with an inadequete number of firefighters on scene.

[JFLYNN 681]

Hi everyone

I am a recent retiree from the Dist in question. You all know by my nickname, who I am. I have read the post on this subject and can agree with some and wonder about others.

I went to the Commissioners meeting last night and was surprised at the conversation that took place. Since this was a public meeting I can discuss what most of the meet was about. There are training problems here, the Commissioners have tried without success to train 100% of the volunteers FFs. They have tried for over 2 years to get everyone in sync with the state and federal standards. They have let FFs go and now they have the wolf at the door and must expel members and notify them by certified mail. These infractions are mostly for noncompliance(OSHA, Repritor test, bail-out, policy, Etc) The Commissioners discussed at length and were disappointed that not all volunteers made the grade after 2 years.

I can no longer make suggestions as a FF, but as a concerned citizen. I can only tell you how I feel and my experience with this district. As a CFF I did not like when Police Officers or Career firefighters from other Depts volunteered here and I knew that if I went to thier jobs to volunteer it would be a differant story. I was told by one career firefighter that he volunteered because he'll never make rank at his job, but could be a chief here. The one eyed man is king in the land of the blind. This CFF also had better benefits then I and better pay, but did not mind stepping on my toes when it came down to benefits for me and my family. Which made me very defensive of my job.

After speaking to some CFFs and VFFs I now know that there has been problem at most of the recent fires. The blame game is going around in circles. There was a shortage of FFs to launch an interior attack and the few VFFs that could respond at least you were there. I am not going to second guess any decissions that were made by IC because I was not there. He made decissions on what he had and what he seen.

Standard staffing at this time is:

2 CFFs @ HQ(L35,E25?,R32)

1 CFF @ Sta-2(R75,E253,L10)

1 CFF @ Sta-3 (R80,E254)

1 CFF @ Sta-4 (U11,U50,E25?)

There has been cutbacks and there has not been any CFFs hired in almost 7 years. Is this a sign of the times I don't think so. Times were good and they still refused to hire. Guys say here that CFFs shortages are a sign of the times, well stand back and think are you working more, maybe a second job, whatever, your availablity to respond is alot less. They'er 7 positions that should be covered 4 shifts and 3 vacation floaters. There used to be 3 till 60c took dispatch 1 was dropped from HQ. As CFFs retired or transfered to other depts vacation floaters were put in permenent posts all openings are now covered by OT. OT will probably be the next complaint that the CFFs make to much. We all know that we went into this career for love and not the money. The CFFs that work @ Sta 2,3,4 are alone for their entire shift. The work force is shifting from 20s thru 40s to late 30s thru 50s, this is a problem. Without that shot of young blood more injuries and more absenteeism will happen causing a financial problem for the district.

As a concerned citizen I would hope that the career ranks are returned to there full strenght. That the second Lieutenant position be replaced so that the strain of training 32 CFFs and 60 or so VFFs to standards could be accomplished in a timely manner. They are other concerns that I have but these seem to be the most pressing at this time. By bringing the training standards for VFFs up to regulated specks this would make a more harmonious fire district for everyone.

There are facts and opinions in this post if you wish to call me out on any of these please do. I will try to answer your intelligent questions.

Great post! Thanks for the info. To the Mohegan career guys- hang in there! For clarification, noone is criticizing the efforts or tactics of anyone, career or volunteer who operated at this or mother recent fires (we're not complimenting them either, we just don't have enough info to speak on that issue one way or another and that is not the real issue anyway). The real issue is the chronically severe lack of an adequate number of qualified firefighters who are able to respond in a timely manner.

Where is the media on this?? I know many local reporters read this site. Where is the Mohegan Union? Again, I'm not being critical of the Mohegan Union- I just haven't heard anything publicly from you guys. Get the word out to the public and repeat is much as possible. Best case someone in charge will show true leadership and fix things before a real tragedy occurs. Worst case those in charge will be forced to fix things after a real tragedy occurs. However, if you don't go on the record publicly and repeatedly about the problems now, when a real tragedy occurs, the same old "we did the best we could" argument will be made, and nothing will change.

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Hi Healz,

Congratulations on the well deserved retirement. Welcome to the ranks!

Hey, does Mohegan have a call-back system in place for the career guys? If not, why do you think this is so, and do you think it would make a difference with the manpower problems if they enacted a system?

Thanks, and best of health to you....

[Remember585 815]

The info provided on lmfdpro.com is good, however when you talk about "being honest," some changes need to be made to your website. (I know we all overlook stuff).

Take a look

http://www.lmfdpro.com/ops.htm

[Healz 30]

Great post! Thanks for the info. To the Mohegan career guys- hang in there! For clarification, noone is criticizing the efforts or tactics of anyone, career or volunteer who operated at this or mother recent fires (we're not complimenting them either, we just don't have enough info to speak on that issue one way or another and that is not the real issue anyway). The real issue is the chronically severe lack of an adequate number of qualified firefighters who are able to respond in a timely manner.

Where is the media on this?? I know many local reporters read this site. Where is the Mohegan Union? Again, I'm not being critical of the Mohegan Union- I just haven't heard anything publicly from you guys. Get the word out to the public and repeat is much as possible. Best case someone in charge will show true leadership and fix things before a real tragedy occurs. Worst case those in charge will be forced to fix things after a real tragedy occurs. However, if you don't go on the record publicly and repeatedly about the problems now, when a real tragedy occurs, the same old "we did the best we could" argument will be made, and nothing will change.

Hi Chief

The union is going through an arbitration right now district will testify @ 10am tomorrow at the Sta-2. It is the same old song here the district and some Vffs say we cost to much. Damn it they'er worth every nickle and if there were a few more, you would have a full attack team from the get go. The media, please!

Hi Healz,

Congratulations on the well deserved retirement. Welcome to the ranks!

Hey, does Mohegan have a call-back system in place for the career guys? If not, why do you think this is so, and do you think it would make a difference with the manpower problems if they enacted a system?

Thanks, and best of health to you....

Thank you very much. Wow the Keys, hows the fishing? I cannot have a signature yet but when I do its going to

I wasted most of my life

the rest I spent fishing

The call back system is used to back fill stations. There are times where we are called in to go to the scene

The info provided on lmfdpro.com is good, however when you talk about "being honest," some changes need to be made to your website. (I know we all overlook stuff).

Take a look

http://www.lmfdpro.com/ops.htm

Yes you are correct the website has to be updated. Numbers are wrong, but the fact are still correct.

I would like thank all you guys for the warm welcome. I know that other CFFs would post but are a little scared for there jobs and retribution.

Thanks again

[spyda308 11]

I hope sometime soon that the county adopts a countywide system (without the major cities of Yonkers, New Rochelle, White Plains, Mount Vernon). It would be better for all involved.

[16fire5 693]

Unfortunatly as things stand now New York State Law does not allow Counties to operate Fire Departments. Regional departments are an option yet the waters have yet to be really tested. I believe we will start to see districts combining with the new allowances. I'm pretty sure FASNY and the Association of Fire Districts is still attempting to over turn these laws.

[gamewell45 258]

The info provided on lmfdpro.com is good, however when you talk about "being honest," some changes need to be made to your website. (I know we all overlook stuff).

Take a look

http://www.lmfdpro.com/ops.htm

Interesting website; they put their cards on the table, which is the right thing to do.

While the Board of Fire Commissioners are charged with providing adequate fire protection, ultimately it falls on the shoulders of the first responders, which according to the website are primarily career fire fighters at least from the outset; it was disturbing to read the narrative that if the career FF is alone and they have a job, he hooks up; packs up; puts the truck in pump gear and goes charging into the structure in question alone. This in and of itself is inherently dangerous and subsequently could have disasterous consequences to the FF if he gets into trouble.

If the local union hasn't brought this to the attention of the Board, they should. As we were taught in our fire training classes, no one should ever enter a building alone. While I realize that there are life and death situations that could arise, this is a terrible situation to place any fire fighter, whether career or volunteer under.

The Local Union really needs to publicize this issue through their International's Safety Committee and begin a PR campaign through a PR Agency to make the locals aware of this. While I don't live in the fire district, I drive through Lake Mohegan on a regular basis and this is the first time I've heard that there is a staffing problem of this magnitude. Making the public totally aware of this issue is the only way to get it resolved, unless you vote the current commissioners out of office and vote in ones who understand the issues.

Just my thoughts on it.

[16fire5 693]

Are the Commisioners volunteers? Always thought that was a double standard. Career member of the district can not be elected commisioner because they would be their own boss but volunteers who do recieve compensation (The IRS says so) are permitted to be commisioners. I know the arguement the volunteers are knowledgeable about fire protection issues. Really? By what standard? At times it is probably difficult at best to be objective in a disagreement between the career and volunteer firefighters. Not everyone on a school board has an education background.

[Healz 30]

Yes all the commissioners are volunteers. As far as I can remember (38years) there has never been an outsider as commissioner. Might be a good thing though.

[JFLYNN 681]

Yes all the commissioners are volunteers. As far as I can remember (38years) there has never been an outsider as commissioner. Might be a good thing though.

Are there any career guys on here who would be interested in running? Or, does anyone know of someone who is not a volunteer who lives in the area who we might convince to run? Maybe a lot of us who care about this issue could get behind such an individual and support them?

It seems like the situation in Mohegan is the classic case of insiders running a Fire District for their own benefit and disregarding what is best for the public. I am willng to write letters, go to meetings and demonstations, whatever. I think a win on this issue in Mohegan would be a win for the fire service as a whole and the public we are sworn to protect.

And. BTW, it doesn't have to be a "bloody battle"...hopefully, if given the proper information, some of the volunteers who serve as Fire Commissioners, or their supporters, will see the light and make some immediate, concrete moves to both add more career staff as well as give the career staff the authority and respect they need to properly serve the public.

[JFLYNN 681]

Hi Chief

The union is going through an arbitration right now district will testify @ 10am tomorrow at the Sta-2. It is the same old song here the district and some Vffs say we cost to much. Damn it they'er worth every nickle and if there were a few more, you would have a full attack team from the get go. The media, please!

Thank you very much. Wow the Keys, hows the fishing? I cannot have a signature yet but when I do its going to

I wasted most of my life

the rest I spent fishing

The call back system is used to back fill stations. There are times where we are called in to go to the scene

Yes you are correct the website has to be updated. Numbers are wrong, but the fact are still correct.

I would like thank all you guys for the warm welcome. I know that other CFFs would post but are a little scared for there jobs and retribution.

Thanks again

How sad (but true) that a union, career Firefighter would be scared of retribution for posting on a website. Many of us on other jobs really don't appreciate what we have when you look at what we complain about. I am sorry you guys have to put up with this and you have my support.

[kurt 5]

Coming from a small town volunteer dept in dutchess county my department has it set up for any structure related call an engine from another dept is automatic toned out same time we are 24/7/365 and it works day time is hard cause everyone works out of town. Being one of those that can leave work and takes me only 5 min to get to the station its nice nowing that someone else is responding. And not getting to a call by myself.

[Healz 30]

Are there any career guys on here who would be interested in running? Or, does anyone know of someone who is not a volunteer who lives in the area who we might convince to run? Maybe a lot of us who care about this issue could get behind such an individual and support them?It seems like the situation in Mohegan is the classic case of insiders running a Fire District for their own benefit and disregarding what is best for the public. I am willng to write letters, go to meetings and demonstations, whatever. I think a win on this issue in Mohegan would be a win for the fire service as a whole and the public we are sworn to protect.And. BTW, it doesn't have to be a "bloody battle"...hopefully, if given the proper information, some of the volunteers who serve as Fire Commissioners, or their supporters, will see the light and make some immediate, concrete moves to both add more career staff as well as give the career staff the authority and respect they need to properly serve the public.

Thanks Chief may speak to you in the future

Coming from a small town volunteer dept in dutchess county my department has it set up for any structure related call an engine from another dept is automatic toned out same time we are 24/7/365 and it works day time is hard cause everyone works out of town. Being one of those that can leave work and takes me only 5 min to get to the station its nice nowing that someone else is responding. And not getting to a call by myself.

Kurt if you are calling for other Depts from the get go doesn't this call for consolidation now. If you are on Auto Mutual Aid now how many depts will be called before a firefighting force is raised in the future. Lets think ahead for a 2 year plan and 5 years and 10 years. This is forward thinking and all depts will be better by the planning that is done today.

We should all stop thinking about stop-gap measures. The actions that are taken today will have consequences tomorrow and for years to come. True leadership is taking care of the people that we serve and FFs & EMS that work so hard to provide this service. Having enough response now and in the future is for most.