Where Americans Pay Most In Property Tax

[Bnechis 3,961]

In another post this link was mentioned:

http://www.forbes.com/2010/01/15/property-taxes-high-lifestyle-real-estate-counties-assessment-taxes-chart.html?partner=msnre

Its "Where Americans Pay Most In Property Tax"

They list 20 counties in 4 different sections of the country: North East, South , Midwest and West.

Lets see what can be determined from this little snap shot:

Westchester has more Fire Depts, more water & sewer districts, more school dists, more city town, village and county government more PD,EMS agencies....more, more, more

Does this make us better? or just the most taxed county in the United States!

The 5 West coast counties have 1 FD (SF county/City also) the Median Home Value is almost 50% more, but their tax is almost Half what we pay.

In the South the 3 VA county (with county FD's) Pay half for the same value homes. The 2 Tx counties pay half for a 60-70% less value, but they also have 25-35 FD's and multiple other gov's.

The midwest pays the most after the northeast and they all have 25-35 depts.

The northeast all 5 counties set records for the most government and we pay for it.

[IzzyEng4 427]

Question for you, what are the differences in population size over these areas listed? Is that also a factor? Also waht is the population density per squar mile?

[Bnechis 3,961]

Question for you, what are the differences in population size over these areas listed? Is that also a factor? Also waht is the population density per squar mile?

Fascinating I compared the 3 other regions to Westchester (I did not look at our other local counties that are also government rich) and found the following:

Population avg.: 620,000 (range 54,699 - 1,764,499) Westchester is 953,943

Area avg.: 561 sq miles (range 26 - 1,389) Westchester is 433

Density avg: 2005 per sq. mile (range 39-17,115) Westchester is 2,194

We were very close to the average in all catagories

What I found is this:

Counties that have more population pay less

Counties that have less population pay less

Counties that have more land pay less

Counties that have less land pay less

Counties that have more population density pay less

Counties that have less population density pay less

Can anyone tell what is going on here? What are they doing that we are not?

All of the Counties that pay less have at least 1/2 of the amount of government than we pay for.

[antiquefirelt 994]

The study is an interesting look into how people live. By using the medians in the study you can calculate the average mil rates. This shows that Westchester residents pay $3.00 less per $1000 of assessed value than where I work. Of course that's not the whole picture as clearly home values are not nearly as high, but then neither is the median household income (ours is less than half). But, I'm willing to bet the cost of groceries and other staple supplies is fairly comparable.

Possibly looking at the Forbes numbers with an eye toward property tax vs. median income would make a better comparison region to region. Clearly Westchester tops this list as well, but oddly the area on the report with the lowest property taxes are not paying the least as compared to their income. But if you owned a house valued at the Westchester median value in my town, you'd pay more in taxes! Traffic isn't nearly as bad though!

I guess my pint is that it's very difficult to compare yourself to other parts of the country without looking at huge numbers of variables which make it nearly impossible to compare apples to apples. Regionalization and consolidation make sense for more reasons than economics, and until people realize that raising the standard service quality is is a key goal, they'll keep getting bogged down in the numbers.

Edited February 3, 2010 by antiquefirelt

[buff.boy 4]

Can anyone tell what is going on here? What are they doing that we are not?

All of the Counties that pay less have at least 1/2 of the amount of government than we pay for.

THESE COUNTIES DO NOT HAVE PEOPLE WITH EGOS LIKE THIS COUNTY DOES. TOO MANY CHIEFS NOT ENOUGH INDIANS. EVERYONE WANTS TO LEAD AND NO ONE WANTS TO FOLLOW. YOU HAVE SMALL TOWN GOVERMENTS WHO ACUATLY LEADS THE COUNTY. THEN YOU HAVE THE PUBLIC WHO REALLY DOESN'T CARE ON WHAT THEY PAY IN TAXES. MOST PEOPLE USE THE ESCROW ACCOUNT TO PAY AND THEY PAY NO MIND TO THE CHECK THEY WRITE FOR THERE MORTGAGE. THEN THERE IS THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE VILLAGES WITHIN TOWNS THAT ARE WITHIN TOWNS THAT ARE WITHIN EVEN MORE TOWNS. EXAMPLE: RYE BROOK IS A SMALL VILLAGE WITHIN PORT CHESTER, CITY OF RYE IS PART OF PORT CHESTER, LARCHMONT IS A VILLAGE AND MAMARONECK IS A VILLAGE WITHIN THE TOWN OF MAMARONECK. PEOPLE IN RYE BROOK AND LARCHMONT FEEL THEY ARE BETTER THAN THE REST AND THEY DO NOT WANT TO GIVE THE "HIGHER ARCHY' OF A NAME UP. THEN YOU HAVE THE GREENBURGHS. EDGEMONT IS A NOTHING, JUST A NEIGHBORHOOD NAME AND THEY HAVE ALL THE POWER THEY WANT AND NEED TO HAVE. THEN YOU HAVE THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN NEW ROCHELLE THAT THINK THEY ARE SCARSDALE RESIDENTS BECAUSE THERE POST OFFICE IS JUST THAT SCARSDALE. IT JUST GOUES TO SHOW YOU THAT PEOPLE DO NOT CARE. JUST LOOK AT LOCAL ELECTIONS. THEY ARE LIKE 300 VOTES PER AREA BECAUSE NO ONE CARES. NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE. IT IS SIMPLE AS THAT. WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN IS TOTAL REFORM AND RESTRUCTURE OF GOVERMENT STARTING FROM THE STATE. THE STATE IS THE ONE THAT SHOULD BE GETTING THIS GOING. THEY ARE THE ONES THAT GIVE MONEY TO THE LOCAL GOVERMENT AND SCHOOLS SO THEY COULD RUN. THE TAX PROBLEM IS NOT SO MUCH POLICE/FIRE/DPW/GOVERMENT IT IS SCHOOLS. TEACHERS AND PRINCIPALS AND EVERYONE ELSE IN THAT SYSTEM MAKES A TON OF MONEY. NOBODY WILL STOP THAT FROM HAPPENING BECAUSE THAT IS THEIR CHILDRENS EDUCATION. THAT IS WHY CITY DWELLERS MOVE TO THE BURBS. NOT FOR POLICE/FIRE/DPW. IT IS FOR THE SCHOOLS.

[helicopper 1,050]

One difference is the structure of government in other parts of the country. Here in NY you can be paying, village, town, county, school, water, sewer, state, and fire taxes.

In many other parts of the country if you don't live in a city, you live in the county and there are no towns/villages so you escape that tax. Schools are also coordinated and taxed at the county (or regional) level so there aren't 50 school districts all paying administrative costs, etc. and the cost is spread out over a much larger tax base. Let's face it, some school districts in Westchester are small with bloated administrative staffs and salaries and small student bases to draw from.

[LFD34 12]

I believe the Westchester tax number is just county tax. It does not include local (Town,Village,City Towns and Villages will have a separate school tax also). For the most part emergency services actually is paid out of the local tax not the county tax. The county tax does pay for county control, hazmat and the other special services.

The bulk of the county tax goes towards health and human services.

I don't disagree that we need to look at how to best optimize the cost of delivering all services within government, however we have to also ensure that we are providing the quality of service expected by the public. The quality of service requirements must be managed by our politicians, as they are also responsible for providing the needed funding.

This analysis should be performed independent of structure and staffing model. It is irrelevent whether the department is career, combination or all volunteer, as these are solutions that are used based on run count, geography, population density, etc.

[buff.boy 4]

the truth is the fact that emergency services is the cheapest part of the taxes that are paid. they are paid through the local goverments. call your local tax office and see what it is you will be suprised on how cheap it is. i think i pay more per month for lunch than i do in police and fire tax. That is another thing, we worry about having cell phones, cable tv, movie channels that we dont watch, the nice car. The average cell bill is $100.00 a month =$1200 year. Cable/phone/internet $150.0 per month = $1800 per year. That there is $3000 per year for entertainment, nothing else. It is OK for the average person to pay that without a blink of an I but when it comes to public safety people are crying because there taxes are increasing. What is more important LIFE SAFETY or HBO AND TEXTING?? Think twice when you watch that movie or send that text or answer the phone.

[helicopper 1,050]

THESE COUNTIES DO NOT HAVE PEOPLE WITH EGOS LIKE THIS COUNTY DOES. TOO MANY CHIEFS NOT ENOUGH INDIANS. EVERYONE WANTS TO LEAD AND NO ONE WANTS TO FOLLOW. YOU HAVE SMALL TOWN GOVERMENTS WHO ACUATLY LEADS THE COUNTY. THEN YOU HAVE THE PUBLIC WHO REALLY DOESN'T CARE ON WHAT THEY PAY IN TAXES. MOST PEOPLE USE THE ESCROW ACCOUNT TO PAY AND THEY PAY NO MIND TO THE CHECK THEY WRITE FOR THERE MORTGAGE. THEN THERE IS THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE VILLAGES WITHIN TOWNS THAT ARE WITHIN TOWNS THAT ARE WITHIN EVEN MORE TOWNS. EXAMPLE: RYE BROOK IS A SMALL VILLAGE WITHIN PORT CHESTER, CITY OF RYE IS PART OF PORT CHESTER, LARCHMONT IS A VILLAGE AND MAMARONECK IS A VILLAGE WITHIN THE TOWN OF MAMARONECK. PEOPLE IN RYE BROOK AND LARCHMONT FEEL THEY ARE BETTER THAN THE REST AND THEY DO NOT WANT TO GIVE THE "HIGHER ARCHY' OF A NAME UP. THEN YOU HAVE THE GREENBURGHS. EDGEMONT IS A NOTHING, JUST A NEIGHBORHOOD NAME AND THEY HAVE ALL THE POWER THEY WANT AND NEED TO HAVE. THEN YOU HAVE THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN NEW ROCHELLE THAT THINK THEY ARE SCARSDALE RESIDENTS BECAUSE THERE POST OFFICE IS JUST THAT SCARSDALE. IT JUST GOUES TO SHOW YOU THAT PEOPLE DO NOT CARE. JUST LOOK AT LOCAL ELECTIONS. THEY ARE LIKE 300 VOTES PER AREA BECAUSE NO ONE CARES. NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE. IT IS SIMPLE AS THAT. WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN IS TOTAL REFORM AND RESTRUCTURE OF GOVERMENT STARTING FROM THE STATE. THE STATE IS THE ONE THAT SHOULD BE GETTING THIS GOING. THEY ARE THE ONES THAT GIVE MONEY TO THE LOCAL GOVERMENT AND SCHOOLS SO THEY COULD RUN. THE TAX PROBLEM IS NOT SO MUCH POLICE/FIRE/DPW/GOVERMENT IT IS SCHOOLS. TEACHERS AND PRINCIPALS AND EVERYONE ELSE IN THAT SYSTEM MAKES A TON OF MONEY. NOBODY WILL STOP THAT FROM HAPPENING BECAUSE THAT IS THEIR CHILDRENS EDUCATION. THAT IS WHY CITY DWELLERS MOVE TO THE BURBS. NOT FOR POLICE/FIRE/DPW. IT IS FOR THE SCHOOLS.

First of all, please stop yelling. It is commonly accepted that the use of all capital letters is considered SHOUTING. Please refrain from that in future posts.

Second, while there is obscene duplicity of governments there are no towns within other towns or villages within other villages. Villages may exist within a town but there can only be one Town or City government. You can't have a village or town within a city either. Clear as mud yet?

[buff.boy 4]

First of all, please stop yelling. It is commonly accepted that the use of all capital letters is considered SHOUTING. Please refrain from that in future posts.

Second, while there is obscene duplicity of governments there are no towns within other towns or villages within other villages. Villages may exist within a town but there can only be one Town or City government. You can't have a village or town within a city either. Clear as mud yet?

Sorry about that I was not yelling. I am new here and i did not know how to seperate my typing from the post. You are right and wrong, i think. I know that Larchmont has there own goverment,village of mamaroneck has there own and the town of Moamroneck has its own as well That is three goverments 2 villages and 1 town within the town of mamaroneck. Then you have the greenburghs. Then there is Pelham. You have Village of Pelham goverment village of pelham manor goverment then the town of pelham goverment . again 3 goverments 1 town I think the City of Rye has 1 and the Town of Rye has 1 then Port Chester and rye brook. All in Portchester.

[27east 19]

Sorry about that I was not yelling. I am new here and i did not know how to seperate my typing from the post. You are right and wrong, i think. I know that Larchmont has there own goverment,village of mamaroneck has there own and the town of Moamroneck has its own as well That is three goverments 2 villages and 1 town within the town of mamaroneck. Then you have the greenburghs. Then there is Pelham. You have Village of Pelham goverment village of pelham manor goverment then the town of pelham goverment . again 3 goverments 1 town I think the City of Rye has 1 and the Town of Rye has 1 then Port Chester and rye brook. All in Portchester.

The Town of Rye consists of the the Village of Port Chester, Village of Rye Brook, and the Rye Neck section of the Village of Mamaroneck. The City of Rye is not in Port Chester, nor is it part of the Town of Rye.

Also remember that there is no unincorporated area (area outside the villages) in the Towns of Rye and Pelham, while there is unincorporated area in Mamaroneck Town. In the unincorporated area, the Town is responsible for basic services, such as Police and DPW.

[PCFD ENG58 1,085]

Sorry about that I was not yelling. I am new here and i did not know how to seperate my typing from the post. You are right and wrong, i think. I know that Larchmont has there own goverment,village of mamaroneck has there own and the town of Moamroneck has its own as well That is three goverments 2 villages and 1 town within the town of mamaroneck. Then you have the greenburghs. Then there is Pelham. You have Village of Pelham goverment village of pelham manor goverment then the town of pelham goverment . again 3 goverments 1 town I think the City of Rye has 1 and the Town of Rye has 1 then Port Chester and rye brook. All in Portchester.

buff.boy are you a Goverment Administrator, you sure talk like one ??

[Bnechis 3,961]

I believe the Westchester tax number is just county tax. It does not include local (Town,Village,City Towns and Villages will have a separate school tax also). For the most part emergency services actually is paid out of the local tax not the county tax. The county tax does pay for county control, hazmat and the other special services.

The tax number used is the total amount of property tax paid, it includes County, City, Town, Village, school and any special districts (fire, water, sewer, etc.)

I don't disagree that we need to look at how to best optimize the cost of delivering all services within government, however we have to also ensure that we are providing the quality of service expected by the public.

And the issue in Westchester is both the quality of service (or lack of service) along with the fact that we pay almost double for it.

The quality of service requirements must be managed by our politicians, as they are also responsible for providing the needed funding.

Do you really believe that they understand what level of service is being provided? As long as the public believes they are being protected, and because they see a whole bunch of big red trucks down at the fire station and they are 100% sure they are covered. The politicians will fund what they think is needed to keep themselves in office.

[helicopper 1,050]

Sorry about that I was not yelling. I am new here and i did not know how to seperate my typing from the post. You are right and wrong, i think. I know that Larchmont has there own goverment,village of mamaroneck has there own and the town of Moamroneck has its own as well That is three goverments 2 villages and 1 town within the town of mamaroneck. Then you have the greenburghs. Then there is Pelham. You have Village of Pelham goverment village of pelham manor goverment then the town of pelham goverment . again 3 goverments 1 town I think the City of Rye has 1 and the Town of Rye has 1 then Port Chester and rye brook. All in Portchester.

I think we're saying much the same thing. There are ridiculous layers of government including multiple villages within single towns but there can not be towns within towns, villages within villages, or cities within cities. You can have coterminous town/villages (why this is important I don't know) such as Harrison and Scarsdale.

[firefighter-70 27]

The largest percentage of Home Owners tax bills in NYS are school taxes. Fire/Police/EMS are a drop in the bucket. Elected officals always go after FD/EMS and PD when the budgets get tight. Look at NRFD, having to deal with cuts in the past and most recently threatened with layoffs. Some what the same in YFD, along with FDMV facing de-motions within the DCs,CAPTs and LTs. These Departments can't afford cuts to manpower in any form, plain and simple. Its schools that are breaking the backs of home owners, not emergency services. The State needs to re-look how we fund schools.

[firebuff860 54]

Everyone wants to see their taxes lowered until the time comes to cut or take away their little fifedom. Teachers, Local politicians, county politicians, and I am sure some Fire and Police Chiefs.

Let's take a look at a somewhat normal Westchester County Town that includes 2 Villages. We start with 3 separate Town/Village halls with separate admin staffs and elected officials along with separate courts. You might have 3 career police chiefs, 3 Executive Officers, 3 detective divisions, 3 patrol divisions, 3 separate dispatch sites, and 3 administrative staffs. On the fire side you might have 9 Chiefs, 6 engines (conservative), 3 ladders, and 3 rescues, along with a minimum of 3 firehouses. You also probably have 2 plus school districts with separate admin staffs, etc etc. This also holds true for DPW staffs, water depts, etc, etc, etc...........

The arguement that emergency services only takes up a small % overall is getting old. The time has come to find savings wherever we can, and if it starts "small", so be it.

When is this insanity going to end? Unfortunately, unless the hacks in Albany get voted out I don't think you will never see real change in NY.

Capt Nechis I think the regional plan is a great idea, right up until the point that the local and county politicians get their hands on it. They will hem, haw and twittle their thumbs delaying any decision where they might "lose control" of a piece of their empire. If your plan does come to fruition, congrats to you and those that fight for it.

[Bnechis 3,961]

You can have coterminous town/villages (why this is important I don't know) such as Harrison and Scarsdale.

Scarsdale & Mt Kisco, I do not think Harrison is.

The reason for it, is once you have no unincorporated land (or all land is within a village) the town can not be split into one or more seperate villages.

[Bnechis 3,961]

The largest percentage of Home Owners tax bills in NYS are school taxes. Fire/Police/EMS are a drop in the bucket....Its schools that are breaking the backs of home owners, not emergency services. The State needs to re-look how we fund schools.

Agreed, but my point was NYS is going bankrupt and every dollar is at issue. Schools are the number one problem, and the state has already told smaller districts they are going to be merged in the next 2 years.

Elected officals always go after FD/EMS and PD when the budgets get tight. Look at NRFD, having to deal with cuts in the past and most recently threatened with layoffs. Some what the same in YFD,

Thats because public safety makes up 60% or more of local spending. The bank robber was asked; why do you rob banks? cause thats where the money is.

along with FDMV facing de-motions within the DCs,CAPTs and LTs. These Departments can't afford cuts to manpower in any form, plain and simple.

MV did this for political reasons not money

[PCFD ENG58 1,085]

Scarsdale & Mt Kisco, I do not think Harrison is.

The reason for it, is once you have no unincorporated land (or all land is within a village) the town can not be split into one or more seperate villages.

Harrison is, They did so when West Harrison and Purchase thought about braking away late 80's

[Bnechis 3,961]

Harrison is, They did so when West Harrison and Purchase thought about braking away late 80's

Thanks. Thats why you do it, then they cant break away.

[firefighter-70 27]

Thanks. Thats why you do it, then they cant break away.

Barry,

Is the county looking at last years study? Do you think any of 10 Department plan will be used in the near future (3-5 years)?

[Bnechis 3,961]

Barry,Is the county looking at last years study? Do you think any of 10 Department plan will be used in the near future (3-5 years)?

The county has nothing to do with it. it is completely in the hands of the locals (and some state issues).

New Rochelle's Mayor is now pushing to work on phase 2, 2 or 3 of the other departments are interested. The rest are more on hold. I think the major telling issue will be Albany and the new state budget. If the Gov. gets what he is proposing and everyone in Albany is scared of next Nov. election so they may vote his plans in so they can tell voters in Nov. that they are cutting the taxes. If that happens, the districts and the 3 smaller villages will be forced to do it or go bankrupt.

I think we will know by May what is going to happen.

[firebuff860 54]

The link below is from The Journal news. Another reason why we enjoy such high taxes. And a big reason why these politicians don't want anything to change. Remember this in November.

http://www.lohud.com/article/20100204/COLUMNIST08/2040382/1010/The%20Six%20Million%20Dollar%20Delegation

[firefighter-70 27]

The county has nothing to do with it. it is completely in the hands of the locals (and some state issues).

New Rochelle's Mayor is now pushing to work on phase 2, 2 or 3 of the other departments are interested. The rest are more on hold. I think the major telling issue will be Albany and the new state budget. If the Gov. gets what he is proposing and everyone in Albany is scared of next Nov. election so they may vote his plans in so they can tell voters in Nov. that they are cutting the taxes. If that happens, the districts and the 3 smaller villages will be forced to do it or go bankrupt.

I think we will know by May what is going to happen.

Barry,

Why will this only take place in the three smaller villages, tax base? won't NR,MV get hit hard with state cuts?

[IzzyEng4 427]

Its different over here in CT when it comes to political incorporation, we only have boroughs, towns and cities. As for special incorporations, we can also include special districts (ie water, sewer, fire protection, ect.) We do not have a county level of government, that was abolished years ago.

In CT there are 169 incorporated towns with full municipal powers. Of this there are 8 subordinate incorporated boroughs within their respective towns or city/town consolidated, one independent city withing its town, one city administered with its town, one consolidated borough/town and 19 consolidated town/cities. Connecticut has these subdivisions plus other special service districts through its Home Rule Act.

To read up more on our governmental system here is the wiki link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administrative_divisions_of_Connecticut

[helicopper 1,050]

The link below is from The Journal news. Another reason why we enjoy such high taxes. And a big reason why these politicians don't want anything to change. Remember this in November.

http://www.lohud.com/article/20100204/COLUMNIST08/2040382/1010/The%20Six%20Million%20Dollar%20Delegation

I just added it up. Taxpayers coughed up a total of $6,018,009 in one year just to cover the day-to-day expenses of the 13 Senators and Assembly members who make up the Westchester and Putnam state delegation to Albany.

If that alone doesn't give you serious pause, consider that the entire 212-member menagerie of fabled fumblers and bumblers cost $219,547,949, according to the latest available figures collected from April 2008 through March 2009.

Unbelievable! The PART-TIME state legislature costs 220 MILLION dollars not including the salaries? The salaries are another 17 million. I think it's safe to say that it's time for a change.

They should cut that by 50% immediately and it would go a long way toward closing the budget defecit.

[Guest USAFvet]

Property tax is only part of the total tax burden.

School taxes are never mentioned!

Better expense control and management is necessary by all.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Barry,Why will this only take place in the three smaller villages, tax base? won't NR,MV get hit hard with state cuts?

The cities also get sales tax and other funds that villages dont get, also being larger they have more areas to cut from, and a larger tax base. I had looked at the budget in Pelham a few years ago (when working on a grant for them). That year they purchased a new ladder. I calculated that the entire tax rate increase that year was equal to what they spent (they bonded the vehicle), but if they had purchased it they would not have met any other increases (salary, insurance, pension etc.) for all employees, not just FD. THe numbers would mean villages would have to choise between PD, FD and other services, because they will not be able to afford all of them.

New Rochelle (the city, not schools) gets less funding from the state than the next 15 smaller cities. If NR got the same state funding (per capita) that the it should based on being the 7th largest city, we would recieve another $10-12 M. I do not know how it will affect MV.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Property tax is only part of the total tax burden. School taxes are never mentioned! Better expense control and management is necessary by all.

School taxes are included in the property tax (50-80% of it).

Agreed. Schools are very poorly managed and need major change.

[weaselff 6]

I am as politically conservative as anyone else on this board but my feelings when it comes to property taxes is that you get what you pay for. When I was young and dumb I bought a home in an area where the taxes were low around 3k a year and basically everywhere I went around town it felt as though an episode of COPS was about to break out. I had halfway houses and section 8 on my block. While there were many good families around, there was enough skells to keep me looking over both shoulders day and night.

Now I live in a town where I pay closer to 10k in property taxes but the piece of mind is worth every penny. I don't worry as much about my families safety and I can go to the supermarket without feeling like I am going to get car jacked in the parking lot.