How Do You Suggest We Deal With This Type Of Membership Issue?

[emt301 4]

I think some of these comments miss the mark. The issue is not about censorship it's about civility. I have never enjoyed the forums to which I subscribe where they become a constant antagonistic environment. I would hope EMTBRAVO would be above all that.

If two people want to argue about some topic in a childish, name-calling manner, let them take it to PM or better still, some other site.

Bickering is not why I come here. BTW, I am all for debate and encourage it, but it's when it gets personal rather than a discussion of facts or beliefs that I think it goes overboard.

Exactly. Civility is the issue here, not censorship. I agree that a good debate is welcome, but that personal attacks and bashing...whether by direct "frontal assault", or by implied subtle negative/sarcastic comments...shouldn't be welcome here. It has nothing to do with whether or not people here have thick skins... anyone that's in the emergency services has a thick skin already just to do the job...but this is supposed to be an environment for disucssion, learning, and debate...not negativity and antagonism.

[Fire24 1]

As mentioned above, civility is an issue. Respect is another matter to remember as well. A spirited debate about a matter is welcome and likely to be very beneficial to many on this forum. There are varying levels of experience here and everyone can learn something here. As many have said on these forums, the day we think we know it all is the day that we'll find out the hard way that we don't. Teach, discuss, learn ... if we work towards those goals we'll all be better off.

[T. John 21]

I am a member of a number of forums, newsgroups, blogs and other interactive online resources. Today, I typically browse to see what the current discussions are about but rarely contribute as I just don't have the time. I do, however, enjoy the commentary and what people have to say.

Compared to every site I visit, this forum has the highest number and most frequent posts concerning censorship, banning, what is appropriate/what is not and consistent reminding of the forum rules. Granted, I haven't run a statistical analysis but this is my observation.

I realize rules are rules and the administration has made a strong effort to maintain a professional tone on this forum. Having worked in the technology/online field for over 12 years, I understand the complexities of running a site such as this.

I applaud the administration for obviously devoting considerable time to this site. I do, however, want to encourage everyone to let the discussions flow. There will be times when there are disagreements, in-accurate information, hurt feelings (QTIP) and heated conversations. Don't forget, however, that this is the Internet. Unless it's a .gov or .edu address, don't rely on the information you read online as "source material". Take it for what it is worth.

And, please, common sense should dictate what is posted and how you read it.

Just my opinion.

Edited February 4, 2010 by T. John

[Remember585 815]

I'm not against anyone speaking their mind, asking questions or offering advice to improve things.

What I am against is the hypocratical nature that this forum was founded upon. "Your knowledge helping others." Asking questions that only instigate debates and hard feelings does nothing for anyone involved. For example, what, if anything, has the questions regarding Banksville's response done? My guess - NOTHING.

A general rule I abide by is that you should only type what you would say to someone's face. Way too many people hide behind their keyboards.

This is all going to turn into a pissing match, because one side will be convinced they're right, and the other side thinking they're right. It will lead to heated discussions and will rarely be of any use to anyone. Eventually people will tire of reading the debates and criticism on this site and find other avenues to vent. Unfortunately, it will be AFTER someone's feelings are hurt.

It's bad enough that certain people (not just on here) constantly make younger, newer and more impressional members feel inadequate and/or that their whole existence and/or organization is a joke. Some read what others post or write as gospel and become combative to the order within their own ogranization. I, personally, have learned A LOT from here, probably more so than most other things I read, yet I know the difference in spirited debate compared to others who see it as bashing.

I don't think censoring is permissable, but I do think we all need to remember that what we say here can and will hurt feelings, and the ramifications can be worst then a lot of people are realizing. A prime example that I am familiar with involves certain postings by some in regard to certain organizations that resulted in bad blood between several organizations. It's immature, I know, but this is the world we live in.

People don't know when to tune out certain things and when to listen. Like Chief Flynn says, Quit taking it personally, but for all too many this is impossible.

If discussion about incidents is going to be permitted, then everyone better grow a thick, THICK skin, because firemen are our own worst enemy and our biggest critics.

Game on...

[ckroll 101]

Censorship seems harsh. That said, free speech isn't free any more than 'freedom' is. Freedoms come with a responsibility to others to show respect,restraint. To paraphrase a well known opening line in a letter addressing a complaint.... Dear Sir, Thank you for sharing your views. I agreed with you until I read your letter....

I wasn't aware people were unhappy, thought it sounded less than serious..... but if there is one more comment about "grow a pair", "man up", or "quit being a girl" you're really going to piss me off. There is nothing wrong with having a 'full set' [a.k.a. two XX's] of chromosome 23. And there is no honor in being thick skinned if it leaves the person insensitive, indifferent, unable or unwilling to show compassion. Grow a thicker skin or take a walk is more or less the same as saying, my sandbox, my rules. The only person who has a right to say that on this forum has asked us our opinion about how to keep all participants engaged. We owe him better answers.

I've never met anyone from whom I could not learn something and to whom I could not teach something, if one actively keeps an open mind and an open heart. Pushing to the sidelines members who don't meet some 'manly' standard is giving up the opportunity to teach and to learn. I hope we are all here to do a little of both.

Is there value in anonymous posts? Require everyone put their real name on what they write... and maybe try 'girling up' once in a while.

[16fire5 693]

There have been a number of discussions about recent structural fires. I think we get the drift that there are a number of members unhappy with those discussions. I think it's important to keep in mind that adequetly staffed apparatus with trained personnel responding quickly is of great benifit to firefighter safety and obviously those we are sworn to protect. Staffing and its relation to firefighter and civillian safety is obviously important enough of a topic for Homeland Security security to fund a study by NIST on the topic. Additionally I have seen a number of NIOSH firefighter fatality reports that list staffing/# of responding personnel as a contributing factor in the death of a firefighter during interior firefighting. With all this being said why should this board shy away of this topic? Life Safety is our primary concern we should highlight the inadequicies if we have any hope of improving these tough issues.

[yfd910 8]

I suggest those that come to you crying because they can't take or answer questions, or accept insight , tips and a little criticism from experienced members of this group be banned or dealt with, instead of banning, editing, deleting posts, or writing "strongly worded letters" to those that have something to offer (like a friend of mine, banned, who is a CAPTAIN in a local department)......I myself have had many posts edited or deleted, which is why I stopped posting here, rather than crying to the moderators about it.....

Every department has its vacant lots, faults and deficiencies and can get criticized in one way or another about certain or everyday incidents.....instead of crying and bitching about it, answer the question as honest and straight up as possible without putting a twist on it, accept tips and criticism, learn from it and try to overcome or fix it rather than act like nothing's wrong or that it's someone else's fault for asking or pointing something out.........

If that's too harsh, then just tell the 'whiners' not to get involved, instead of catering to them, which seems to be the new American way....cater to those that whine the most......

Oh, and I still haven't seen anyone post "I brought this or that up to Seth because 'so and so' hurt my feelings by saying........." ....you guys wouldn't last a day on the job......

[Remember585 815]

I suggest those that come to you crying because they can't take or answer questions, or accept insight , tips and a little criticism from experienced members of this group be banned or dealt with, instead of banning, editing, deleting posts, or writing "strongly worded letters" to those that have something to offer (like a friend of mine, banned, who is a CAPTAIN in a local department)......I myself have had many posts edited or deleted, which is why I stopped posting here, rather than crying to the moderators about it.....

Every department has its vacant lots, faults and deficiencies and can get criticized in one way or another about certain or everyday incidents.....instead of crying and bitching about it, answer the question as honest and straight up as possible without putting a twist on it, accept tips and criticism, learn from it and try to overcome or fix it rather than act like nothing's wrong or that it's someone else's fault for asking or pointing something out.........

If that's too harsh, then just tell the 'whiners' not to get involved, instead of catering to them, which seems to be the new American way....cater to those that whine the most......

Oh, and I still haven't seen anyone post "I brought this or that up to Seth because 'so and so' hurt my feelings by saying........." ....you guys wouldn't last a day on the job......

Well said. Society as whole is way too pampered. Nut up or shut up!

[ex-commish 490]

Well said. Society as whole is way too pampered. Nut up or shut up!

I second this !!!

[goon16 155]

remember585 basically just summed it up.......if u cant take the heat stay out of the kitchen....ball breaking is a big part of our job in the kitchen and around the fire house. Everyone that is growing up now and so sensitve and has everything given to them and they are told that they are great.. society is becoming too soft.. every sport team i ever played on(basically hockey) there was a lot of ball breaking and it got me preppared for what they firehouse is like and plus i grew up around it and understand it..If yypur gonna be a baby and not be a man maybe this isnt the job for you

[ckroll 101]

Well said. Society as whole is way too pampered. Nut up or shut up!

And if all you've got is balls, then in my opinion, it's just another pair of fuzzy dice on the rear view mirror.