Darien, CT Sends Aerialscope to Seagrave for Rechassis and Refurb

[x635 4,066]

Darien, CT will follow suit of Pelham Manor and rechasis their 1971 Mack CF/Aerialscope onto a brand new Seagrave single rear axle chasis, withy brand new body, and refurbished/upgraded aerial, bucket, and hydraulics (to Aerialscope II standards) by Seagrave.

This was approved by the Town Of Darien this past Monday and the tower should be leaving for Seagrave in Wisconsin soon.

This marks the second apparatus of this type sold by Excelsior Fire Apparatus Sales in Mamaroneck.

http://darienfire.org/apparatus/tower-ladder-43-thumbnail/

[Guest]

You forgot to add somes thing to your post X635...Darien FD is actually almost $300,000 more than Pelham Manor did for their re-chassis...and they will be able to win more parade trophies with their's.

Confucioous say..."just because it is shiney, new and costs $900,000 plus doesn't mean you know how to use it and put fires out"

[jcoppola 52]

Belltown has a similar rig of a similar age. I heard talk of the same "rechassis" idea thrown around for TL45. If I were on the truck committee, I would want to find out the risk factors of re-mounting a 40-year old aerialscope boom and bucket onto a brand new Seagrave chassis. I realize that the hydraulics and boom controls would be all new, but suppose some major boom failure takes place that no inspection can forsee? I see that as a huge risk. Is it worth the savings? I realize budgets are tight, but in the end, if that rechassis were to fail, I envision the total cost of the refurb truck being more in labor and parts than a new one?

Just a thought. I realize that there really is no truck on the road today more versitile than an aerialscope on that single rear axle 75'. You can get them anywhere and they do a lot. With budgetary constraints where they are today too, our choices are really limited.

Good luck to Darien on the refurb, cannot wait to see it when its done!

Joe

[mfc2257 464]

Just curious, if Seagrave is remounting old '75s on new single axle Marauder's, why not build entire new units that way and start marketing them? The 'Scope hasn't changed much outside of hydraulics and controls in 40+ years.... If an old one will go on a new chassis with upgraded hydraulics/controls then why not a new 'Scope on a new chassis for those who don't have one to remount?

[x635 4,066]

PRESS RELEASE:

LINK TO DEAWING: http://darienfire.org/misc_content/PE57000%20051910.pdf

Darien, CT Sends Aerialscope to Seagrave for Rechassis and Refurb

Darien’s oldest fire apparatus, a 1971 Mack / Baker Aerialscope (Tower Ladder 43), started its 1,054 mile journey today to Seagrave Fire Apparatus in Clintonville, Wisconsin.

After years of careful consideration and research, the department has embarked on a project to re-chassis the apparatus. The metal structures that make up the original truck’s aerial boom, bucket, jacks, turntable, and superstructure, will be removed from the old Mack CF600 truck. These structures will be inspected, overhauled, re-built, and tested at Seagrave Fire Apparatus. These components will meet or exceed the standards of those that are new.

While the work is done to the original aerial components, a new truck is being built. When complete, a new Seagrave Aerialscope will be returned to Darien, early in 2011.

This strategy saves the town about $300,000. Additionally, the new tower ladder will have a single rear axle with a short overall vehicle length (for improved maneuverability), a low vehicle height (for fitting under railroad bridges), and will remain an extremely safe and versatile fire apparatus to serve Darien for another generation.

LINK TO DEAWING: http://darienfire.org/misc_content/PE57000%20051910.pdf

[jcoppola 52]

Just curious, if Seagrave is remounting old '75s on new single axle Marauder's, why not build entire new units that way and start marketing them? The 'Scope hasn't changed much outside of hydraulics and controls in 40+ years.... If an old one will go on a new chassis with upgraded hydraulics/controls then why not a new 'Scope on a new chassis for those who don't have one to remount?

And as a follow-up question...can we PLEASE get one in Norwalk, PLEASE! I just think there is no better aerial than an AERIALSCOPE. All other platforms/tower ladders pale in comparison.

[sfrd18 360]

And as a follow-up question...can we PLEASE get one in Norwalk, PLEASE! I just think there is no better aerial than an AERIALSCOPE. All other platforms/tower ladders pale in comparison.

That would be awesome!!! Maybe an idea for a new Truck 1 if they weren't getting Truck 2's old Spartan/Sutphen tower when the new tiller arrives.

[umfd-330 8]

Belltown has a similar rig of a similar age. I heard talk of the same "rechassis" idea thrown around for TL45. If I were on the truck committee, I would want to find out the risk factors of re-mounting a 40-year old aerialscope boom and bucket onto a brand new Seagrave chassis. I realize that the hydraulics and boom controls would be all new, but suppose some major boom failure takes place that no inspection can forsee? I see that as a huge risk. Is it worth the savings? I realize budgets are tight, but in the end, if that rechassis were to fail, I envision the total cost of the refurb truck being more in labor and parts than a new one?

Just a thought. I realize that there really is no truck on the road today more versitile than an aerialscope on that single rear axle 75'. You can get them anywhere and they do a lot. With budgetary constraints where they are today too, our choices are really limited.

We certainly feel the same as you regarding the versatility of a single axle scope; and asked the same questions about risks. Our conversations delved into the methods for testing strength of aluminum and steel, general metallurgy, superstructure design, and history. Having scrutinized the entire concept with many professionals at Seagrave and elsewhere, our conclusion was that there really were no additional risk factors to re-mounting a 40 year old boom onto a new chassis. It's essentially the same risk as buying a new one.

If it ever comes to pass between now and the boom's 80th birthday (an idea that made many jaws drop in the Seagrave conference room) that a boom section had to be replaced, the solution is to build a replacement section, which they say they're capable of doing. Some outside research suggested also that the quality of the aluminum and steel used in 1971 was higher, in general, than it is now.

Just curious, if Seagrave is remounting old '75s on new single axle Marauder's, why not build entire new units that way and start marketing them? The 'Scope hasn't changed much outside of hydraulics and controls in 40+ years.... If an old one will go on a new chassis with upgraded hydraulics/controls then why not a new 'Scope on a new chassis for those who don't have one to remount?

There are weight and overall vehicle height (OVH) differences between the old boom-bucket-superstructure designs and those of the Aerialscope II. I don't know the specific contributing factors to the weight differences, but I believe the new design does not leave enough design margin on the rear axle to run with a single axle. We're getting a Telma, and a 10 KW Harrison generator which add some weight, offsetting it with a smaller but ample engine (2009 ISL-425) and aluminum roll up doors, with several thousand pounds of margin to spare on the rear.

Good luck to Darien on the refurb, cannot wait to see it when its done!

We can't wait to get it either. When it arrives, you'll be among the first to know!

And as a follow-up question...can we PLEASE get one in Norwalk, PLEASE! I just think there is no better aerial than an AERIALSCOPE. All other platforms/tower ladders pale in comparison.

An Aerialscope would rule in Norwalk.

Joe

[jcoppola 52]

An Aerialscope would rule in Norwalk.

Joe

I guess I should keep quiet and appreciate the fact that we will have a TDA in a couple of weeks!

[PCFD ENG58 1,085]

I guess I should keep quiet and appreciate the fact that we will have a TDA in a couple of weeks!

Maybe Chris Z will come back form the west coast to tiller!

[jcoppola 52]

Maybe Chris Z will come back form the west coast to tiller!

I would love to have Zackster back.

[umfd-330 8]

I guess I should keep quiet and appreciate the fact that we will have a TDA in a couple of weeks!

A tiller WILL rule in Norwalk. That's another one I can't wait to see.

[x635 4,066]

Seagrave recently posted on it's website something about it in the last week. I don't know if it is done or not, I can't bring up anything when I click the link? Can anyone else?

[dfdallen 13]

Seth all I found was saying they are using the marauder 2 cab and chassis. That was in the latest news area.

[42121FD 5]

Do they make Aerialscopes with a pump and tank?

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

Seagrave recently posted on it's website something about it in the last week. I don't know if it is done or not, I can't bring up anything when I click the link? Can anyone else?

Link does not work for me either.

[IzzyEng4 427]

Do they make Aerialscopes with a pump and tank?

Yes they do make a 'Scope quint if you request it.

[mfc2257 464]

Why spoil a perfectly good Scope by putting a pump on it?

That's like going to a high end steak joint and smothering a $40 slab of cow flesh with sauce!!!!

Jokes aside, were/are there any Scope/quints in the metro area? Pleasantville's I thought had a pump but no tank or hose which disqualify it from quint/quad classification.

[COH Bulldog 82]

We are looking at doing the same with our aerialscope. The cost of a new 75' is close to (most likely over) $1 mil. The re-mount goes out the door for around $775,000. A new 'scope has to be mounted on a double axle due to weight and other factors that I forget (all this info comes from the Seagrave dealer). A re-mount can go on a single axle which suits our village streets better. It is just a better fit for us. If a new 'scope could go on a single axle and were more cost effective, I know that would be our option. But is is not, so we are looking at the re-mount.

PS--Pine Bush in Orange County, NY has an older 75' Aerialscope with a pump and tank on it (dual axle of course).

[jcoppola 52]

Any build photos? I'm very curious to see the finished product.

[IzzyEng4 427]

According to Seagrave's press release, its due in early 2011.

[F1racer 7]

Any build photos? I'm very curious to see the finished product.

Here are some pictures of the build so far. As we get more pictures we will be adding them to the site.

http://photos.darienfire.org/main.php?g2_itemId=1934

[x635 4,066]

Awesome! Thanks for sharing the link to the pix!

What's going to happen to the chasis? I could see Noroton Heights wanting it...

[F1racer 7]

Awesome! Thanks for sharing the link to the pix!

What's going to happen to the chasis? I could see Noroton Heights wanting it...

Not sure what is going to happen to the old CF yet. We got some more pictures and they have been posted on our site. We are planning to get out the factory in a few weeks to check things out.

[rbuchjr 0]

Awesome! Thanks for sharing the link to the pix!

What's going to happen to the chasis? I could see Noroton Heights wanting it...

I'm pretty sure the Town of Darien owns Tower Ladder 43, so I think it is up to them what happens to it. Currently, the truck is just sitting at the Town Garage....

Correct me if I'm wrong Jason

[F1racer 7]

I'm pretty sure the Town of Darien owns Tower Ladder 43, so I think it is up to them what happens to it. Currently, the truck is just sitting at the Town Garage....

Correct me if I'm wrong Jason

That's correct the town does own TL-43 At this point it's pretty much out of our hands what happens to it.

[mfc2257 464]

That's correct the town does own TL-43 At this point it's pretty much out of our hands what happens to it.

They shipped the truck to WI to have the boom removed and then shipped the chassis back to CT?

[F1racer 7]

They shipped the truck to WI to have the boom removed and then shipped the chassis back to CT?

Yep, part of the contract was to have their drivers take our old rig out to WI, they removed all the pieces that could be re-used and drove the truck back to CT.

[Anesti 329]

so what are they currently using for a ladder?

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

so what are they currently using for a ladder?

From the Darien Volunteer Fire Department website:

"During this project, our brothers and sisters from Noroton and Noroton Heights Fire Departments will be providing us assistance with their aerial ladder trucks."

http://darienfire.org/