RIT

[Guest]

I noticed today reading of the Stamford working fire today that the RIT team was an engine company. This got me thinking as to if that or any engine is capable of performing RIT duties on its own? RIT shouldn't just involve standing in the front yard and listening to the radio, it involves a good deal of proactive actions, and once activated any number of obstacles inside that caused the mayday will have to be overcome. Does your department have a list of equipment that are to be staged by the RIT team, or a RIT protocol in general? Or is it just a 'wing it' sort of operation. **I'm not saying that this is the case in Stamford, as I have no idea as to their equipment on their apparatus nor their SOPS.** In my mind, you need at least two saws, (one with a wood blade, the other with metal blade) multiple hooks, tagline, a hoseline, RIT pack, irons, TIC, ladders, just to get the list started. I don't know of any engine company that carries all or even most of those things.

[HFD23 37]

I noticed today reading of the Stamford working fire today that the RIT team was an engine company. This got me thinking as to if that or any engine is capable of performing RIT duties on its own? RIT shouldn't just involve standing in the front yard and listening to the radio, it involves a good deal of proactive actions, and once activated any number of obstacles inside that caused the mayday will have to be overcome. Does your department have a list of equipment that are to be staged by the RIT team, or a RIT protocol in general? Or is it just a 'wing it' sort of operation. **I'm not saying that this is the case in Stamford, as I have no idea as to their equipment on their apparatus nor their SOPS.** In my mind, you need at least two saws, (one with a wood blade, the other with metal blade) multiple hooks, tagline, a hoseline, RIT pack, irons, TIC, ladders, just to get the list started. I don't know of any engine company that carries all or even most of those things.

Many Departments in Westchester use engine co's as F.A.S.T/ R.I.T.

i know Hartsdale E-170 has all the stuff you mentioned plus some. Fairview, Yonkers, white plains all usually use engines. Scarsdale and Greenville can use either a Eng or a Truck as fast, Croton uses a engine, Yorktown use's an engine all which have the equipment you stated. Irvington uses a rescue i believe.

Many Departments in Westchester have engines that are set up as more of a squad meaning that they carry engine and truck company equipment like saws hooks etc. also many carry extrication equipment and rope rescue equipment, not every department has multiple trucks to send out on mutual aid, many have multiple engines so sending one out of town isn't as big a deal. also many departments don't have heavy rescues so engine's have to fill the gap taking on a roll of carrying more then just hose and water.

Another factor is that how often does the F.A.S.T truck get close enough to the fire building to actually use its aerial, its rare here in westchester often due to limited access, tight streets etc. Thus using an aerial device as a F.A.S.T. company is a luxury not a necessity.

The Biggest thing isn't what apparatus the F.A.S.Team comes on its the equipment they carry,depoly, the pro-activity of the F.A.S.T members and leader and most importantly the level of training of the members who respond.

Edited January 22, 2010 by HFD23

[Guest]

Greenwich has multiple Engines with rescue equipment on them, all which role to I-95 and RT-15. They also have a Rescue that rarely gets called to MVA's which has a wide range of rescue equipment on it but thats beside the point. However, as a R.I.T., Greenwich has a "wing it" kind of approach but yet has a variety of equipment throughout the rigs on scene to develop a proper R.I.T.. Most of the time an Engine crew is dispatched as soon as its confirmed a working fire. Other times it's whatever volunteers show up late and develop them as a R.I.T. Some have no proper training on how to develop or act as a R.I.T.

[wraftery 1,275]

Many Departments in Westchester use engine co's as F.A.S.T/ R.I.T.

i know Hartsdale E-170 has all the stuff you mentioned plus some. Fairview, Yonkers, white plains all usually use engines. Scarsdale and Greenville can use either a Eng or a Truck as fast, Croton uses a engine, Yorktown use's an engine all which have the equipment you stated. Irvington uses a rescue i believe.

Many Departments in Westchester have engines that are set up as more of a squad meaning that they carry engine and truck company equipment like saws hooks etc. also many carry extrication equipment and rope rescue equipment, not every department has multiple trucks to send out on mutual aid, many have multiple engines so sending one out of town isn't as big a deal. also many departments don't have heavy rescues so engine's have to fill the gap taking on a roll of carrying more then just hose and water.

Another factor is that how often does the F.A.S.T truck get close enough to the fire building to actually use its aerial, its rare here in westchester often due to limited access, tight streets etc. Thus using an aerial device as a F.A.S.T. company is a luxury not a necessity.

The Biggest thing isn't what apparatus the F.A.S.Team comes on its the equipment they carry,depoly, the pro-activity of the F.A.S.T members and leader and most importantly the level of training of the members who respond.

Great answer...you got my vote!

[Tanker 10eng 140]

I'll second that, well said HFD 23 !!!

[Remember585 815]

Well put HFD23!

I also agree with you, Slayer61, that a FAST / RIT Unit should have minimum equipment, some form of SOPs and proper training. In the past, these items have been discussed on these forums but don't ask me where!

Just building on what the others have asked / replied, what equipment does your FAST carry and what equipment should be minimum?

I'll start... we use an Engine primarily because we have three of them, and because the majority of our trained Team members come from this company.

Some of what we carry:

(1) Stokes

(1) TIC

(1) Quick-Vent Chain Saw

(1) Partner Saw with wood (multi-purpose) blade

(1) Stihl Saw with metal blade (metal and concrete abrasive blades also on rig)

(1) Battery-powered Sawzall

(1) Electric Sawzall

(4) Steel hooks (6' & 8')

(3) Pairs of Irons

(1) 8 Lb. Sledge

(1) Hydra-Ram

(1) Man Down Pack

Several Search Lines & Tie Lines

Several Other hand tools (K-Tool, A-Tools, Closet Hooks)

300' Rope with 3:1 MA setup

Each man has a radio, PPE, SCBA & flashlight(s).

There's a lot more equipment on this rig, but these are the most commonly grabbed tools.

We always perform a 360 of the fire building, and will clear anything blocking egress points. Other tasks we do include throwing ground ladders and performing accountability (as best as we can). One Member is always detailed to the Command Post and monitors Fireground transmissions, and generally we put one team (at least two) in the rear of the building and keep another out front.

[JohnnyOV 2]

How many departments actually try and get a dedicated hoseline from a close engine company for their RIT team to have on hand, standing by with them? Like HFD23 said, getting their truck to the front or side of the building is damn near impossible, so getting your engine close fits into that category too.

Does anyone have standing protocol to basically demand a hoseline in general be given to them upon arriving at a mutual aid scene? If so, how does that work with your neighboring departments?

[Guest partyrock]

Why bother with a hose line? Your FAST cannot operate a line, search, and extricate a downed FF. If the brother is blocked by substantial fire your time is better spent finding an alternate route. I would recommend a can as they can control a substantial amount of fire and are easy to quickly maneuver with.

[16fire5 693]

A hoseline to protect a rescue may be important but using the FAST probably takes them away from the their primary duty of getting the brother in distress. I think it's real important for the IC to have companies in reserve so when the need occurs the IC has engines ready to stretch additional lines and trucks to check for extension and provide relief. Having the companies in reserve eliminates the all too often practice of putting the on scene FAST to work to do other than FAST duties.

We have a cordless rebar cutter that helps with window bars especially when they are higher up and need to operate off a ladder.

It's important to the teams heads in the game while standing fast. I always try to go over based on the fire we are at the most probable mayday and how we will address it. I ask the first due engine chauffeur how many lenghts the first line is and then i count how many to the do so I can gauge how far in companies are operating.

[ex-commish 490]

"The Biggest thing isn't what apparatus the F.A.S.Team comes on its the equipment they carry,depoly, the pro-activity of the F.A.S.T members and leader and most importantly the level of training of the members who respond."

Very true statement. You can have all the tools and equipment but if your people don't have a clue what they are doing than it can be a dangerous scenario.

[chris 18]

Being on a Rit/Fast team comes with two compliments the first one is being selected by your own Dept. And the second one is from the Dept. that calls your team. It has to be the most boring job at the fire scene accept being an I/C. People dont like to be told what to do at their fire scene, but think of the Rit/Fast as the ultimate sefety officer. Being on a Fast team you get to see as much of a 360 as possible the entry ways, stairs,cellar doors etc. Trying to give your team a virtual layout through each others eyes and communications. Constantly talking with hose and search teams when they are changing a bottle or taking a breather. It is real important to be pro active. The only problem with this is people think you are trying to take over. But when you have two teams each in a different location you get to see alot more than just advancing a hose line or doing a search. I for one am glad that the Rit/Fast concept has taken off in our area.

[HFD23 37]

How many departments actually try and get a dedicated hoseline from a close engine company for their RIT team to have on hand, standing by with them? Like HFD23 said, getting their truck to the front or side of the building is damn near impossible, so getting your engine close fits into that category too.

Does anyone have standing protocol to basically demand a hoseline in general be given to them upon arriving at a mutual aid scene? If so, how does that work with your neighboring departments?

I think having a extra line stretched and ready for the F.A.S.T. to use in the event of a rescue is very important, however i do agree often it may not be fast personnel operating the line, there is nothing wrong with assigning extra companies to staging. also if your short manpower reassigning additional personal to a hose line that will protect a rescue operation in the event of some sort of collapse etc is important.

The bottom line is may departments both career and volunteer manpower is a issue, some days F.A.S.T. companies may have 4 or more sometimes even less. the ability of the fast company to effect a rescue and operate a hose line will be based on this. a study showed approx 12 FF's to rescue 1 so i don't know many companies that have 12 F.A.S.T. members at every run. i have seen teams deploy with 8 or 10 so we won't say that it is totally not impossible to operate a line with F.A.S.T. members.

A better question is what is your Departments minimum staffing to respond?

minimum requirements to be a team member?

Any one have a SOP / SOG reading something to the effect if you respond with 4 members as your minimum that you also request a 2nd team to fill out a more realistic number of personnel by combining resources?

[wraftery 1,275]

Theere is no reason you can't put together a FAST team of more than one company. IC-wise it now becomes the FAST GROUP and must have a FAST Group Leader. Need a hose line and two saws and a stokes and...

Ic just makes his FAST Group 1 E and 2 T assigns a FAST Leader, and the problems like shortages of equipment or duplication of efforts go away.

Hopefully by now we have all taken ICS courses. Now, let's learn how to use it to our advantage.

[Guest]

Our RIT policy states that we bring:

Two sets of irons (Heavy and Light)

One Hydra-ram

One Portapower

One TIC

Three 6 foot hooks

Two Saws (One Metal blade, one Wood Blade, plus all spare blades which include masonry)

RIT Pack w/ Tagline

Large Area Search Bag

Two Cans

One 28 foot ladder

One Attic ladder

Stokes

We also have a battering ram that is very useful for breaching masonry walls, and we bring any other equipment we may need dependent on the structure.

Our SOG is for the search team to be two plus the officer. Three people are vent, which will ensure means of egress out of the structure, and await any requests from the search team once they find the downed firefighter. They make sure every window has a ladder, all bars are cut off, etc. The last two people obtain and ensure a RIT hoseline which goes in with the search team. The hoseline acts as an easy additional means to find the team for any needed personnel, and if you can put the fire out, that solves alot of problems. I personally like the hoseline because its easier and less limited than a water can and helps greatly with the safety of the RIT team. We also have an order where if we have less than 6 people we will request an engine co. to standby with a hoseline with us. We generally operate with 8 on the truck, but its not uncommon for us to have 5 or 6. We don't really have to 'demand' a hoseline, I would hate to meet a pump operator who didn't want the RIT team who might have to go in to get his guys to have a hoseline from his wagon. All RIT apparatus are to stage far enough away from the fireground that they do not impede access to the scene and allow all operating apparatus to do so. But then again we operate a box alarm system so the last due special service assumes RIT responsibilities, hopefully everyone's in place by the time they get there.

[FDVA356 23]

The one object/job that we need to expand on a little more is from a recent article in Fire Service magazine:

Lighting is a big job for FAST/RIT operations, to enhance and create a more visible egress for our fellow brothers/sisters. This is a job that really doesn't get done at scenes that I have been involved with and will enhance operations and assist possibly firefighters in distress. By simply placing a Litebox or vulcan at a doorway, whether the flashlight portion or the blue LED rear facing lights, this will create a manageable egress point. Not only does this help in distress issues, it also gives a firefighter a way to judge a way out if needed. As you enter a fire, you should always remember to the best of your ability of your surroundings, and not to guess when the s--t hits the fan.

[helicopper 1,050]

By simply placing a Litebox or vulcan at a doorway, whether the flashlight portion or the blue LED rear facing lights, this will create a manageable egress point.

Might be a prudent marketing idea to change the name of that light these days, huh?

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Might be a prudent marketing idea to change the name of that light these days, huh?

VERY good! lol

[efdcapt115 1,511]

The one object/job that we need to expand on a little more is from a recent article in Fire Service magazine:

Lighting is a big job for FAST/RIT operations, to enhance and create a more visible egress for our fellow brothers/sisters. This is a job that really doesn't get done at scenes that I have been involved with and will enhance operations and assist possibly firefighters in distress. By simply placing a Litebox or vulcan at a doorway, whether the flashlight portion or the blue LED rear facing lights, this will create a manageable egress point. Not only does this help in distress issues, it also gives a firefighter a way to judge a way out if needed. As you enter a fire, you should always remember to the best of your ability of your surroundings, and not to guess when the s--t hits the fan.

Honda generator/light EU2000i. We even got an AFG Grant to pay for two of them from FEMA (before DHS), as part of a succesful RIT equipment grant in 2003.

[Bnechis 3,961]

In the movies the always say its a bad idea to "come to the light" lol

[ny10570 745]

Might be a prudent marketing idea to change the name of that light these days, huh?

+1

We're gonna need to start rating your posts.

[chris 18]

YES +1 for chris192