Elevator Rescue

[FiftyOnePride 100]

Our district already has one elevator, and is soon to be gaining another one via new construction right in the village. This one is going to be used a lot more than the current one, but regardless I would like to brush up and learn more on the ins and outs of getting a person or persons removed from an elevator that will not operate, and any other incidents that may occur involving one.

My experience is limited so I know this is the place to come to to help me, thanks to everyone who responds and takes the time to put together their knowledge.

How do you train or how would you train? Any evolutions or is it simply a verbal discourse on the subject with perhaps a Power Point slide to back it up?

Edited January 6, 2010 by FiftyOnePride

[x129K 1,393]

Our district already has one elevator, and is soon to be gaining another one via new construction right in the village. This one is going to be used a lot more than the current one, but regardless I would like to brush up and learn more on the ins and outs of getting a person or persons removed from an elevator that will not operate, and any other incidents that may occur involving one.

My experience is limited so I know this is the place to come to to help me, thanks to everyone who responds and takes the time to put together their knowledge.

How do you train or how would you train? Any evolutions or is it simply a verbal discourse on the subject with perhaps a Power Point slide to back it up?

Are you referring to an actual RESCUE, ie; person in shaft, "man in machine", etc, or simply a Stuck Occupied Elevator?

Either way, I am all ears, as like you, we have very few elevators out by me.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

There are two classes being offered by Westchester DES regarding Elevator Emergencies:

http://emergencyservices.westchestergov.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=97&Itemid=1373

There could be elevators in residences that you do not even know about like there are in my district.....

[FiftyOnePride 100]

Are you referring to an actual RESCUE, ie; person in shaft, "man in machine", etc, or simply a Stuck Occupied Elevator?

Either way, I am all ears, as like you, we have very few elevators out by me.

The latter, an occupied elevator that is not operational, those on a floor, in between, forcing or opening the doors, alternative exits other than the door, etc.

Thank you for helping me clarify!

[jd783 64]

http://spfdrum.googlepages.com/home

here are some good power points on elevators hope this helps

[FiftyOnePride 100]

I've only viewed the one PP but it looks great, thanks!

[post4031 16]

Just a suggestion, see if there is a service company in your area and ask them if they will do a training session for your department. This way you get to learn about all the mechanical workings of the system from a technician that works on them everyday. If possible conduct the drill right at the location get some hands on.

Scott

[jfmuller 23]

Our district already has one elevator, and is soon to be gaining another one via new construction right in the village. This one is going to be used a lot more than the current one, but regardless I would like to brush up and learn more on the ins and outs of getting a person or persons removed from an elevator that will not operate, and any other incidents that may occur involving one.

My experience is limited so I know this is the place to come to to help me, thanks to everyone who responds and takes the time to put together their knowledge.

How do you train or how would you train? Any evolutions or is it simply a verbal discourse on the subject with perhaps a Power Point slide to back it up?

My department had a class done by DRM whom taught a good class on rescue. Most likely you are dealing with an elevator possibly 4 floors or less which is hydraulic. First determine what floor the stuck elevator is on. Most cars stop moving due to door issues, so making sure the door is shut and that the floor above/below is clear you can move on to the rescue. Using proper tag out procedures you can shut off electric and then remove the cover and use the hydraulic override to lower the elevator to proper floor height and let the victims walk out. Polling will allow you to locate the elevator car location (What floor). Rescue from the car would require a good anchor and roping so that if the car is moved no one is at risk of injury. The lowering and stopping of the car can be done using the hydraulic override. The last thing you want to do is to take (Victims) out using a ladder and the top of the elevator car. Since we need a controlled rescue I think by law the top of the elevators are locked so that the victims cannot climb out of the elevator.

Edited January 6, 2010 by jfmuller

[sklov5949 23]

In Poughkeepsie we go to these on a routine basis and it's usually pretty easy to gain access. We turn the power off and just use the drop key to get the door open. Also, most elevators get stuck from a electrical glitch and sometimes switching the power on and off may get the elevator moving again.

[robert benz 344]

Our district already has one elevator, and is soon to be gaining another one via new construction right in the village. This one is going to be used a lot more than the current one, but regardless I would like to brush up and learn more on the ins and outs of getting a person or persons removed from an elevator that will not operate, and any other incidents that may occur involving one.

My experience is limited so I know this is the place to come to to help me, thanks to everyone who responds and takes the time to put together their knowledge.

How do you train or how would you train? Any evolutions or is it simply a verbal discourse on the subject with perhaps a Power Point slide to back it up?

as was stated already contact Mike Dragonetti @ dragonrescue.com for excellent classroom and hands on training

[robert benz 344]

here are some steps that need addressing and some already have

determine what kind of elevator you are being called to work on you may only have a hydro, but does your mutual aid area have traction elevators?

do you have the keys to open all the doors you may come across?

where is the elevator stuck?

is it a true emergency ie medical call or just a stuck occupied elevator?

do you have an sop for lock out tag out? ANY elevator you are going to work on MUST have the power shut off before starting any evolution.This is probably the most important thing you have to do. with that said do you leave a member at the shut off, (in the old days we always took the fuses out and put them in our pockets), do you shut it off and lock it out so no one else can put it back on, or do you just assume because you shut it off that no one else is in the building answering the same call: IE: building maint, PD, elevator repairman who might turn it back on for whatever reason.

how many people are in the elevator? involves making contact with the occupants and possably calming them down BEFORE any attempt to open doors

where is the car in relation to the floor

is there a fall hazard into the shaft by ANYONE FD or OCCUPANT UPON REMOVAL

a little giant ladder/ closet ladder is standard on all our responses to help remove occupants

how good are you at getting the doors open practice makes perfect

AND PLAN B FOR THAT ONE IN A HUNDRED CALL WHERE NOTHING YOU PRACTICED WORKED

This is just a quick overview some steps were already mention in previous posts I am sure i left out something along the way

[soboss34 54]

One of the first things you could do is sign up for the Elevator Rescue course offered by NYS. Along with that, to become proficient on your specific make/model elevator, find out which manufacturer made it and once it's installed, have one of their repair technicians go through emergency procedures with you such as locating and lockout/tagout the power source, whether the elevator is cable or hydraulic and how it operates, gaining access to the elevator car, manually opening the doors, etc.

I have found they are more than happy to help you because if you force entry inot the elevator and screw it up, it's more headaches for them. Also see if they'll give you the correct elevator drop key. If you only have two elevators in your district, no need to buy the entire set.

As for in service training, at minimum you can do a powerpoint and have the tech show you around, but you should also have him let you do hands on with the actual elevator car.

As someone else mentioned, Mike Dragonetti runs an excellent elevator rescue class as well.

Edited January 6, 2010 by soboss34

[Guest]

We had one a few weeks ago - which made two I've done in my home district. At my work fire brigade I've done considerably more. As mentioned above, the best bet is to contact the service company for the elevators in your district for tips on how they work.

[FiftyOnePride 100]

Thanks everyone for the input, and don't stop please! Several people have mentioned Dragon Rescue, including a few PM's, so I have a few different routes to go, thanks again everyone I do appreciate it.

Most likely I am going to take what people have written and provided here and try and use as much as possible to help me get better aquainted, and the others in my company, thanks again!

Edited January 6, 2010 by FiftyOnePride

[Guest jcnyc]

Kill the power, leave someone there to maintain it is not restored.

Remove victim. I would never attempt to move a car regardless of its mechanism of power.

Get the keys you need for your elevators. I think firehooksunlimited.com has them. Better off getting a whole set, you never know when you may need em.

[efdcapt115 1,511]

What happened to the old "halligan tool into the cable wheel" up in the motor room, to ensure no further movement of the elevator car? Do you not have these cable wheels in the newer style elevators?

Most of the elevators we had in my district were the older type Otis brand, and it was SOP for a truckman to immediately get up there, kill the power and get the halligan tool into the wheel; just in case. Even though most models have auto-locks which prevent the car from moving up or down until power is properly reset.

From there we'd futz around with the complete key set until we found something that worked. Sometimes we needed an attic ladder to remove victims, but that was rare.

Only once were we forced to resort to the hydra-ram, for a particularly cantankerous door. In this case, we needed to add wood blocks to secure the hydra-ram, as the door was forced further until finally the lock gave way; no damage to the door.

It can be a trying type of call. You have people that are anxious to get out of the car, and once you are there, obviously now the pressure is on, the clock is ticking, and dispatch is waiting to hear those famous words, "the victims have been removed safely."

As that clock ticks....STAY COOL.....

[JimmyPFD 11]

One of the first things you could do is sign up for the Elevator Rescue course offered by NYS. ....As someone else mentioned, Mike Dragonetti runs an excellent elevator rescue class as well.

Mike Dragonetti offers an excellent class and would recommend it to anyone who is considering it. This is a class I'd gladly take again.

[wraftery 1,275]

Along with Rescue training, if elevators are starting to appear in your town you might want to consider

1. Getting your elected officials to enact an elevator code requiring periodic inspectiona by qualified inspectors.

2. In that code specify a Fire Service key so that all future elevators will have the sane key. If you really want to be proactive, get your neighboring towns to specify the same key. Your nearest big city may already have a key specified. That's the key you want to specify.

3, Clip a Fire Service Ket to each FD portable radio.

Bob Benz gave you a great list of size-up considerations. Since you only have 2 elevators and they are new, you probably won't have a lot of elevator runs. Why not laminate Bob's list and put it in your elevator kit or command vehicle.

[FiftyOnePride 100]

Great info from everyone again, thank you! Gonna take all this and actually do something with it now.

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Mike Dragonetti offers an excellent class and would recommend it to anyone who is considering it. This is a class I'd gladly take again.

How much does Mr. Dragonetti charge for the elevator course?

[fjp326 42]

A lot of elevator cars have a power switch located on the top of the car. If you go to the floor above the car and open the door, you can reach the switch with a pole or broom handle. Its nice because it disables the motor but keeps the lights on in the car so any trapped occupants aren't freaked out any more than they already are.

I have heard of the haligan in the pulley trick but not to sure about its usefulness.We questioned an elevator mechanic on scene one day and he told us that if the brakes were to let go it would snap the tool like it was a toothpick.

Edited January 7, 2010 by fjp326

[wraftery 1,275]

I don't think ANYONE has ever broken a Halligan, and no one ever will.

Even if the brakes fail, the elevator operates on counterweights, and the wheel would very slowly only an inch or two at most before it wedges against the Halligan.

BECAUSE OF THE WEIGHTS, THE CAR SHOULD NORMALLY MOVE UP, NOT DOWN.

Sorry about the all caps. I wasn't yelling at you, Frank, the "caps lock" button was stuck.

[demps121 39]

Brothers, Please take the elevator class taught by Mike. The class is offered through Westchester County (it is Free) to firefighters and Fire officers. You will be amazed at how much you do not know, and how dangerous elevator removals can be. No one has mentioned placing members in class 3 harnesses and on rope or not wearing turnout gear during removal/rescues from stalled cars in the shaft.

How about shutting down power to adjacent cars in multi car banks when doing removals from the top of a car so a firefighter does not get killed by a passing car that is still running.

I was lucky enough to have taken Elevator awareness with Mike and a few day's later encountered a difficult removal, where we had to place firefighters into the shaft on rope with harnesses (for our own safety)

Please realise the importance of proper training in Elevator rescue/removal and sign up and take the class.

Rick Dempsey

Eastchester FD

Edited January 7, 2010 by demps121

[dragonrescue 28]

What happened to the old "halligan tool into the cable wheel" up in the motor room, to ensure no further movement of the elevator car? Do you not have these cable wheels in the newer style elevators?

Most of the elevators we had in my district were the older type Otis brand, and it was SOP for a truckman to immediately get up there, kill the power and get the halligan tool into the wheel; just in case. Even though most models have auto-locks which prevent the car from moving up or down until power is properly reset.

From there we'd futz around with the complete key set until we found something that worked. Sometimes we needed an attic ladder to remove victims, but that was rare.

Only once were we forced to resort to the hydra-ram, for a particularly cantankerous door. In this case, we needed to add wood blocks to secure the hydra-ram, as the door was forced further until finally the lock gave way; no damage to the door.

It can be a trying type of call. You have people that are anxious to get out of the car, and once you are there, obviously now the pressure is on, the clock is ticking, and dispatch is waiting to hear those famous words, "the victims have been removed safely."

As that clock ticks....STAY COOL.....

Cap,

The procedure you are referring to pertains only to geared traction elevators. It will only stop the sheave (wheel) from moving, it will not stop the cables from sliding through the grooves of the sheave. I wrote an article for FireEngineering magazine(December, 2007 issue) that describes an incident that I was involved in where the cables slipped through the groves of the machine. This is a pratice that we no longer use.

Stay Safe

Mike Dragonetti

[dragonrescue 28]

A lot of elevator cars have a power switch located on the top of the car. If you go to the floor above the car and open the door, you can reach the switch with a pole or broom handle. Its nice because it disables the motor but keeps the lights on in the car so any trapped occupants aren't freaked out any more than they already are.

I have heard of the haligan in the pulley trick but not to sure about its usefulness.We questioned an elevator mechanic on scene one day and he told us that if the brakes were to let go it would snap the tool like it was a toothpick.

As Chief Rafferty stated, it would be close to impossible to snap a haligan. As far as relying solely on the car top stop switch is a bad idea. It is not a power switch, it just interrupts the safety circuit. There is no way of knowing if the stop switch is operating correctly either. Take the time out and kill the main line in the motor room. Use the car top stop switch as a back-up to killing the main line disconnect.

Stay safe

Mike Dragonetti

Edited January 7, 2010 by dragonrescue

[fjp326 42]

I don't think ANYONE has ever broken a Halligan, and no one ever will.

Even if the brakes fail, the elevator operates on counterweights, and the wheel would very slowly only an inch or two at most before it wedges against the Halligan.

BECAUSE OF THE WEIGHTS, THE CAR SHOULD NORMALLY MOVE UP, NOT DOWN.

Sorry about the all caps. I wasn't yelling at you, Frank, the "caps lock" button was stuck.

Don't worry chief it takes more than a bunch of caps to offend me (lol). If an elevator can actually snap a haligan, probably not, but this is what was told to us by the mechanic who knows alot more than I do about elevators. At least I hope he does.

I am very familiar with the counterweight pulley system. Stuck occupied elevators calls are daily in Yonkers. As the chief has stated when the brakes are released the car moves upwards slowly.

Thanks for the info on the switch Mike, that is good to know. If you are trying to learn about elevator rescue and there is a free course available, it sounds like a no brainer. Mike any info on when the course will be offered again? Good luck with training all and stay safe.....

Edited January 7, 2010 by fjp326

[jml582 3]

Gentlemen,

Capt Mike Dragonetti and his staff offer several courses, including elevator operations. He has his own website- dragonrescue.com. You can also e-mail him at mdragonetti@dragonrescue.com. My dept has used him and are extremely pleased. The quote "you get what you pay for" says it all. Happy New Year Mike! Joe-BHFD.

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Cap,

The procedure you are referring to pertains only to geared traction elevators. It will only stop the sheave (wheel) from moving, it will not stop the cables from sliding through the grooves of the sheave. I wrote an article for FireEngineering magazine(December, 2007 issue) that describes an incident that I was involved in where the cables slipped through the groves of the machine. This is a pratice that we no longer use.

Stay Safe

Mike Dragonetti

Thanks for the info Mike.

[demps121 39]

Maybe Mike can clear something up, true must elevators will go up because of the counter weight system however lets not forget alot of elevators stall because they are overloaded thus the elevator can possibly go down.

Rick Dempsey

Eastchester FD

[dragonrescue 28]

Maybe Mike can clear something up, true must elevators will go up because of the counter weight system however lets not forget alot of elevators stall because they are overloaded thus the elevator can possibly go down.

Rick Dempsey

Eastchester FD

That is a 100% accurate statement. If the car is overloaded it can out weigh the counterweight.