What EMTBravo is becoming...

[post4031 16]

Hello All,

I have been a member of this forum for sometime now and normally do not post much. I come on here and read updates on incidents, check out what's new and have learned a thing our two in some of the discussions that have taken place. I thought this was a really great site for members of the fire and emergency services to come together and exchange information.

I feel the moderation team does a good job in keeping things relatively calm. However, lately there have been threats made on service providers and topics, questions and discussions that always end up taking the tone of career vs. volunteer. Some members have been allowed to continually stir the pot in multiple topics.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and freedom of speech is wonderful thing, but does all these topics/discussions need to take this tone? It is conterproductive and quite unproffessional. Every department is different, every area is different and each of our systems operate different. Let's be respectful of each other, respect each others roles and move on to some quality discussion that would benefit us all.

I wish you all in the Fire/Emergency Services(Career or Volunteer or Both) a prosperus and healthy New Year!

Stay Safe!

Scott Post

[JimmyPFD 11]

Tactfully stated and frankly it has been allowed to happen regularly. Is it because of prior professional relationships and bias? FYI- Saying QTIP doesn't change a damn thing when you'r blatently disrespectful and nasty.

Edit:

Pease note, this was being typed and posted prior to seeing the immediately proceeding post and is not directed at, nor a response to it

Edited January 3, 2010 by JimmyPFD

[ems-buff 81]

Tactfully stated and frankly it has been allowed to happen regularly. Is it because of prior professional relationships and bias?x FYI- Saying QTIP doesn't change a damn thing when you'r blatently disrespectful and nasty.

Edit:

This was being typed and posted prior to seeing the immediately proceeding post

If you are insinuating that we the staff of this forum, are allowing post(while some are harsh in nature, raise questions that others find hard to answer, or don't like the answer) you are wrong. There are a lot of behind the scenes work, some of which we choose not to say, because it would hamper our duties as staff.

There have been real constructive post on here, which is why this site is here. I would suggest taking a moment, to put your self in the other member(s) shoes you are all referring to and see where they are coming from.

We as staff try very hard to maintain this site, but we can't be everywhere at once. If you feel that there is a post that is in violation of the forum rules, please take a minute to press the "report" button. And tell us, instead of wining about and not doing anything about.

[TAPSJ 30]

Who cares what the posts are, if you dont know then dont worry about it. Just keep it clean and respectful. We are all doing the same job weather we are paid a million dollars or get zero. We do it because we love helping people. So dont bash your brothers and sisters. Bashing a paid ambulance company or a volunteer is ridculous we are doing the same job, WE ARE SAVING LIVES. I will be honest I have people that I dont like in my department and other departments. I am not gonna bash them and we it comes to a job I got thier back after that we go our seperate ways. So all in all keep your mouth shut and do your job the best you can and sapport your brothers and sisters dont bring them down. Stay SAFE Out Thier!!!

Thomas

[PVFD233 68]

Who cares what the posts are, if you dont know then dont worry about it. Just keep it clean and respectful. We are all doing the same job weather we are paid a million dollars or get zero. We do it because we love helping people. So dont bash your brothers and sisters. Bashing a paid ambulance company or a volunteer is ridculous we are doing the same job, WE ARE SAVING LIVES. I will be honest I have people that I dont like in my department and other departments. I am not gonna bash them and we it comes to a job I got thier back after that we go our seperate ways. So all in all keep your mouth shut and do your job the best you can and sapport your brothers and sisters dont bring them down. Stay SAFE Out Thier!!!

Thomas

Perhaps the "bashing" is really just a constructive point being made? Talking about a certain agency and some "interesting" decisions could just be us learning mabey? I am still not sure what these "threats" were, anyone care to fill me in?

[JFLYNN 681]

Who cares what the posts are, if you dont know then dont worry about it. Just keep it clean and respectful. We are all doing the same job weather we are paid a million dollars or get zero. We do it because we love helping people. So dont bash your brothers and sisters. Bashing a paid ambulance company or a volunteer is ridculous we are doing the same job, WE ARE SAVING LIVES. I will be honest I have people that I dont like in my department and other departments. I am not gonna bash them and we it comes to a job I got thier back after that we go our seperate ways. So all in all keep your mouth shut and do your job the best you can and sapport your brothers and sisters dont bring them down. Stay SAFE Out Thier!!!

Thomas

Hey Thomas, I think it's great that you are a fan of keeping things clean and respectful and not bashing your brothers and sisters...me too! I haven't really noticed that happening on this forum other than a few posts which did slip through and then were quickly deleted by our very professional moderators.

I'm curious, would you be willing to share with us which specific posts you feel have not been "clean and respectful" and / or have been "bashing our brothers and sisters"...maybe the rest of us are missing something here? Thanks!

[IzzyEng4 427]

What is EMTBravo becoming????? The question back to you should be what do you want it to be? What suggestions have you provided in feed back to us the web-team to make this forum better?

Granted there are discussion here that do get heated but unfortunately there are those who post that cause the problems that hide behind their screen names and cry for the Wambulanace while others don't hide who they are and speak from the heart and share their opinion.

Granted Q-Tip (sorry Chief) is a redundant statement here but its the truth! If you can't respect another person's opinion then maybe its time to go away or just become a lurker. But that too is counterproductive. We strive to make this a better place, if there is a problem with a topic or thread, you can send a report. People complain that we over moderate, oh well sometimes we have to because stranger things have rolled over into the public outside of forums (not saying this happened here, but it has happened on other forum non-emergency service related sites).

Making a post like this in my opinion to the public is not following the chain of command that is set up here, this is a concern that should have gone to the Mods and Admins first, not out to the rest of the forum. We try to do the best here in watching over the threads but at the same time not trying of be the "overbearing mother". And yes I agree with JFLYNN's post as well!! He is right to the point about what merits surround your concerns and allegations. And again, those should go to the Mods and Admins, not to the membership.

As one of the upper officers on the site, I am going to leave this thread open and hopefully after my post maybe, just maybe there can be some constructive suggestions made how to make it better for you, the members.

Joe

[ems-buff 81]

Who cares what the posts are, if you dont know then dont worry about it. Just keep it clean and respectful. We are all doing the same job weather we are paid a million dollars or get zero. We do it because we love helping people. So dont bash your brothers and sisters. Bashing a paid ambulance company or a volunteer is ridculous we are doing the same job, WE ARE SAVING LIVES. I will be honest I have people that I dont like in my department and other departments. I am not gonna bash them and we it comes to a job I got thier back after that we go our seperate ways. So all in all keep your mouth shut and do your job the best you can and sapport your brothers and sisters dont bring them down. Stay SAFE Out Thier!!!

Thomas

Well said.. And post no harm no foul..

[ny10570 745]

Who cares what the posts are, if you dont know then dont worry about it. Just keep it clean and respectful. We are all doing the same job weather we are paid a million dollars or get zero. We do it because we love helping people. So dont bash your brothers and sisters. Bashing a paid ambulance company or a volunteer is ridculous we are doing the same job, WE ARE SAVING LIVES. I will be honest I have people that I dont like in my department and other departments. I am not gonna bash them and we it comes to a job I got thier back after that we go our seperate ways. So all in all keep your mouth shut and do your job the best you can and sapport your brothers and sisters dont bring them down. Stay SAFE Out Thier!!!

Thomas

Thats really the problem. While many people want to and intend to save lives, hiding behind this we're volunteers and doing the best we can isn;t always good enough. Right now, there are two big weaknesses in emergency services in Westchester right now as I see it. Coverage capability and redundancy. Both of these problems greatly affect the volunteer service and every time they're brought up, it assumed people are bashing the volleys. All any of us want to see is the volleys and paid depts do something to address these problems. The paid depts appear to have started the ball rolling towards this end. Volleys too often continue to sit dug in insisting that all is well.

[TAPSJ 30]

I know of a selective area bashing a selective Paid EMS Company. So who cares who likes who. We are all doing the same job. When I call County and say I need an ALS or BLS Ambulance, if I like them or hate them I got to work with them just as much as I work with my own. You got a problem with someone talk to them dont bring down thier Department or Company...It's Plain RUDE!!!

Thomas

[JetPhoto 626]

Too many post to name in to many discussions to bring up. bottom line is if you have a problem or want a moderator to watch a topic that you think may get out of hand on the bottom left corner is a button for reporting problems, use it.

If you see a topic that angers you and you hit reply and start typing in anger before you hit send, read it over is it really worth sending this and causing more problems? Sometimes its just best to leave it alone and move on and let the topic die.

[helicopper 1,050]

EMTBravo is going to become whatever the membership makes it.

Personally, I like the hard discussions about sensitive questions. It shows that we're thinking and we're willing to address things that need our attention.

I think we get too wrapped up in WHO said something instead of paying attention to WHAT was said. So what if a career guy questions a volunteer operation or vice versa. So what if an EMS person brings up a law enforcement issue or vice versa. The point is we should be discussing the issues and stop being so sensitive about who said it; the issues are going to be there regardless. Maybe some of these discussions will actually move from the internet to a meeting room somewhere and change will actually become a reality.

There are a great many issues that can and should be discussed here. There's simply no reason NOT to do it.

Some of what I'd like to see discussed in 2010, if you have a thick enough skin:

• Response times in FD and EMS
  
• Staffing issues across the boards (paid, combo, volunteer, FD, PD, EMS)
  
• Capabilities - what can we actually do versus what we claim we can do
  
• Consolidation/Regionalization/Partnerships/Cooperatives (whatever you want to call it that will put it on the agenda)
  
• Budgets - are we cost-effective?
  
• Minimum Standards - training, staffing, etc.
  

The gauntlet has been tossed down! Who's going to pick it up and run with it?

[ex-commish 490]

This is not targeted to anyone but I am a firm believer in "if you can't take the heat"...you know the rest. We all have opinions and should be able to express them without being accused of bashing. I have read many comments about volunteer departments such as training (or lack of) manning, response time, too much equipment, blue lights. consolidation..etc and you know what....most of them are true so I suggest either get thick skinned about and fix the problem or do something else. The politically correct tone is ruining the fire service. I am seeing it first hand and it disgusts me.

[JJB531 652]

I don't post on here often, and when I do I keep my posts to a minimum. I like to get involved in debates about sensitive issues just as much as some other members do, but I don't get involved in serious debates on this site because you say one thing and right away 10 people are crying that you're bashing or criticizing. Quite frankly, it's a turn off for a lot of people who may be able to contribute positively to the forum, but don't want to get all mixed up in the nonsense.

I don't think that outright attacks should exist in this forum. I don't think this forum should become the equivalent of an NYPD Rant type forum where a bunch of disgruntled emergency services personnel talk about who is the worst paramedic, or the laziest cop, or the buffiest firefighter. I think this forum should remain a constructive place for local emergency services personnel to debate and discuss the issues that exist in emergency services, whether at the local or national level. Chris192's post in the other thread related to this topic is a perfect response I think... if only I could put it so eloquently, but honestly I don't care much about being eloquent.

Emergency services personnel generally have Alpha/dominant personalities. They're leaders, they face things that the general public does not face, and we do things that the general public does not do. Having an alpha personality means sometimes you have to grow some thick skin. If someone throws a jab at volunteers, don't cry about it. Come up with an educated rebuttal that disputes what that member is saying. Problems exist across the board with paid, volunteer, and combination departments. Discussing these problems is not bashing, it's a discussion to talk about the problems that exist. If you don't like the fact that your agency has faults that someone pointed out in this forum, get over it. Maybe the points brought up here are valid points, so instead of crying about it, do something about it. Make necessary changes, ask how things can be improved, ask what you can do to bring your agency up to the recognized standards.

The simple fact is that in an area where there is so much diversity amongst its emergency service personnel, there's always going to be conflict and debates. Just because someone's views on a certain person, agency, service, or method of doing things aren't your own views, as JFLYNN says, QTIP.

I can only hope that too many members of the general public don't read the nonsense that goes on here. Some of the threads are fantastic, with great input from a lot of educated and experienced individuals. The moderators do an excellent job of weeding out posts that are not constructive.

While I don't personally know you Seth, I know you value this forum for what it is and I know that you and the staff have put a lot of time, effort, and money into creating this forum. All I can say is, don't let all the petty complaints and other nonsense get to you. If people have a problem with things that are said here or topics that arise, let them move on, and find another forum where everyone holds hands and sings songs around a campfire. If they choose not to move on, then they are going to have to learn not to be so sensitive and grow some thicker skin.

[post4031 16]

If EMTBravo were to shut down I think it would prove the childish nature that exists in this forum. I don't post on here often, and when I do I keep my posts to a minimum. I like to get involved in debates about sensitive issues just as much as some other members do, but I don't get involved in serious debates on this site because you say one thing and right away 10 people are crying that you're bashing or criticizing. Quite frankly, it's a turn off for a lot of people who may be able to contribute positively to the forum, but don't want to get all mixed up in the nonsense.

I don't think that outright attacks should exist in this forum. I don't think this forum should become the equivalent of an NYPD Rant type forum where a bunch of disgruntled emergency services personnel talk about who is the worst paramedic, or the laziest cop, or the buffiest firefighter. I think this forum should remain a constructive place for local emergency services personnel to debate and discuss the issues that exist in emergency services, whether at the local or national level. Chris192's post in the other thread related to this topic is a perfect response I think... if only I could put it so eloquently, but honestly I don't care much about being eloquent.

Emergency services personnel generally have Alpha/dominant personalities. They're leaders, they face things that the general public does not face, and we do things that the general public does not do. Having an alpha personality means sometimes you have to grow some thick skin. If someone throws a jab at volunteers, don't cry about it. Come up with an educated rebuttal that disputes what that member is saying. Problems exist across the board with paid, volunteer, and combination departments. Discussing these problems is not bashing, it's a discussion to talk about the problems that exist. If you don't like the fact that your agency has faults that someone pointed out in this forum, get over it. Maybe the points brought up here are valid points, so instead of crying about it, do something about it. Make necessary changes, ask how things can be improved, ask what you can do to bring your agency up to the recognized standards.

The simple fact is that in an area where there is so much diversity amongst its emergency service personnel, there's always going to be conflict and debates. Just because someone's views on a certain person, agency, service, or method of doing things aren't your own views, as JFLYNN says, QTIP.

To shut down an entire website because members are complaining about certain threads or comments posted is just like giving up when the going gets tough, and I have never seen so much childish behavior amongst a group of "professionals" with the constant bickering and complaining over the dumbest little things. I can only hope that too many members of the general public don't read the nonsense that goes on here. Some of the threads are fantastic, with great input from a lot of educated and experienced individuals. The moderators do an excellent job of weeding out posts that are not constructive.

While I don't personally know you Seth, I know you value this forum for what it is and I know that you and the staff have put a lot of time, effort, and money into creating this forum. All I can say is, don't let all the petty complaints and other nonsense get to you. If people have a problem with things that are said here or topics that arise, let them move on, and find another forum where everyone holds hands and sings songs around a campfire. If they choose not to move on, then they are going to have to learn not to be so sensitive and grow some thicker skin.

Bravo!!! Points I was trying to make earlier but you did a MUCH better job....you must be a fast typer!!

[Raz 14]

The politically correct tone is ruining the fire service. I am seeing it first hand and it disgusts me.

This is the absolute truth, and in essence the best response one could give to the question raised in the original post of this thread. If you don't like what somebody else posts, shut them up with facts. No need to attack them, no need for moderator intervention, no need to make threads like this complaining about other threads. It's really the most satisfying way to handle things, both personally and for the good of the site.

[Tapout 42]

Wow. And people ask why I don't post here more often. THIS is why. One guy starts this post with great points and good intentions, and 10 guys line up to bash him. I've tried this same thing a few times and, each time, have also been blind-sided by the same angry, cranky, cynical, pessimistic posters.

Let's all jump off the bashing train and onto the Chris192 better in 2010 bandwagon. ALL of us have enough negativity to endure on our jobs, between sick, dying and injured people, angry, crazed, irrational family members, incompetent or just non-team-playing co-workers.... so at the VERY LEAST, on this forum, can't we all make a concerted effort to GET ALONG and respect one another??!!I'm not asking for a fricking Kumbaya pow-wow, just some mutual and unconditional respect for our OWN. We're all we've got at the end of a hellish shift, after all...

[Guest partyrock]

I don't post much on here anymore, but still really enjoy the site because people talk to eachother in a very real way. The outright libelous posts absolutely should not be tollerated, but the occassionally heated back and forths are how people really talk when discussing important issues. Its how friends debate, its how the kitchen table works, and its why this site has such broad appeal. If your feelings are hurt or you're offended step back and take a look at what's bothering you. Because unless the things chief Flynn says applie to you they shouldn't bother you. If they do bother you, then you really need to look at your agency.

[JFLYNN 681]

Wow. And people ask why I don't post here more often. THIS is why. One guy starts this post with great points and good intentions, and 10 guys line up to bash him. I've tried this same thing a few times and, each time, have also been blind-sided by the same angry, cranky, cynical, pessimistic posters.

Let's all jump off the bashing train and onto the Chris192 better in 2010 bandwagon. ALL of us have enough negativity to endure on our jobs, between sick, dying and injured people, angry, crazed, irrational family members, incompetent or just non-team-playing co-workers.... so at the VERY LEAST, on this forum, can't we all make a concerted effort to GET ALONG and respect one another??!!I'm not asking for a fricking Kumbaya pow-wow, just some mutual and unconditional respect for our OWN. We're all we've got at the end of a hellish shift, after all...

I didn't see anyone lining up to bash the original poster, much less 10. If I'm wrong please correct me with some specific factual information.

The original poster claimed that there are people who are allowed to "stir the pot in multiple threads", "bash", and to be "unprofessional and counterproductive", yet he has given no specifics. Where is the evidence of this???

Yet, no one has bashed him. Several members have made great, eloquent, FACT BASED responses which were

respectful and did not in any way make a personal attack. His post was rebutted. He was not attacked personally. Why can't some of you see this? I know most of you do see this of course which is why I, and others, will continue to speak out on here or elsewhere as we see fit in order to, in my case, attempt to improve fire and EMS in this area of the country. (I'll leave law enforcement to the professionals in that area)

It really is hard sometimes to believe that the members on this forum are all (or mostly all) in emergency services what with all thin skin.

I really do believe the acronym QTIP is so applicable here...I often use it to remind myself to do the same...why not try it guys?