Would you still volunteer.......

[x129K 1,393]

if "courtesy lights" were outlawed?

[Mofire24 27]

You shouldn't be doing it for the lights ! you should do it because you want too do it so Yes I would

[gamewell45 258]

if "courtesy lights" were outlawed?

I couldn't tell you; I don't use a blue light.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Absolutely

[Mark Z 18]

Yes, I would! I am beginning to think they should outlaw them anyway, they cause more harm than good!

[JFLYNN 681]

if "courtesy lights" were outlawed?

No I would not.

[x129K 1,393]

No I would not.

HAhahahaaa....Awesome.

[Bnechis 3,961]

if "courtesy lights" were outlawed?

I think this a waste of time, a better question would have been if they were outlawed do you see it as a problem for recruiting or retention within your department?

[x129K 1,393]

I think this a waste of time, a better question would have been if they were outlawed do you see it as a problem for recruiting or retention within your department?

That is basically what I was getting at, just worded far more eloquently.

[67R93 5]

I do it for my community...not to look cool with my "blue" light..lol

[Chief1710 14]

Don't use one , it takes me 5 minutes in traffic and about 3 minutes in the middle of the night, I don't see what good it would do to use it. We also dont allow new members to use them until after probation and we dont encourage there use. But we don't tell our members no

[EJS1810 7]

I want to answer this before this thread gets shut down because if you can't see that comming you should be at the NYS School for the Blind. I have been a volunteer Firefighter for 32 years. I would do it with or without "courtesy lights". If my town had carear firefighters i would have concidered that path years ago. We don't so I did what I did.

Now let me ask this.........Would you still be a career FF...............if they didn't have pensions?

I so know This is gonna get deleted.

[x129K 1,393]

And what's the point? Do you honestly think people volunteer so they can have a blue light? Anyone on this planet can buy a light and put it in their car. Maybe you are just stirring the pot a little since you got such a kick out of chief Flynn's response?

Perhaps I am....

BUt then again, I overheard someone say today they would quit their department if they could not use their shiny new LED lightbar...so it is a half serious question, half tounge in cheek.....

[x635 4,066]

I want to answer this before this thread gets shut down because if you can't see that comming you should be at the NYS School for the Blind. I have been a volunteer Firefighter for 32 years. I would do it with or without "courtesy lights". If my town had carear firefighters i would have concidered that path years ago. We don't so I did what I did.

Now let me ask this.........Would you still be a career FF...............if they didn't have pensions

I so know This is gonna get deleted.

So then what is the point of your post other than to taunt the moderators, insult this forum, and stir the pot? Your question is completly irrelevant, and intent is obvious. So, also explain to me why it fits in this thread?

[ladder55 26]

Perhaps I am....

BUt then again, I overheard someone say today they would quit their department if they could not use their shiny new LED lightbar...so it is a half serious question, half tounge in cheek.....

You should have asked that someone if they are serious but thank you for your honesty about the original intention of the question

[ajsbear 11]

People don't stop or yeild to the rigs with red lights and sirens. What good do blue lights do?

[grumpyff 1,159]

The blue light doesn't matter to me. Some times I use it, mostly I do not. Either way people tend to drive like morons in front of me..either 10 mph less than the speed limit, or talking on their phones, or just completely lost.

What about fire parades? Plenty of grumbling last year when our department almost didn't go to any.

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Now let me ask this.........Would you still be a career FF...............if they didn't have pensions?

If the question were asked, "would you still volunteer if there were no Service Award Programs?"

The retort could be "would you choose to be a career firefighter if there were no pensions?"

But in this case the question "would you still volunteer if you weren't permitted to have a blue light?"

Would be easier compared with the question "would you still be a career firefighter if you weren't allowed IAFF stickers for your vehicles?"

Apples with apples, no?

[Guest]

Absolutely...

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

I would 100%....its not about the perks, its about the job

a true fire fighter knows that

[Turborich 12]

Mahopac Fire Department has their own LOSAP Secretary.

Lock this before it turns into a flamewar please.

[yanks4ever1320 6]

yes, i would still volunteer if i couldn't use a blue light. you volunteer because you want to and you love it, not because you can use a blue light. if you are in it for the blue lights, you are going to kill youself, or get someone killed in a fire one day because you really dont care about firefighting.

[eng1ine 0]

Now let me ask this.........Would you still be a career FF...............if they didn't have pensions?

I so know This is gonna get delete

Are you serious??? Does your or any other CAREER have a pension? You do have one good point it should be deleted!!!!!!!!

[abaduck 123]

No I would not.

Chief,

You owe me a keyboard.

[99subi 121]

I am a volly, i dont have anylights, so i guess that answers that. I personally think some depts let their members go wayyy overboard with lights making them look very unprofesional (oxymoron).

Edited January 3, 2010 by 99subi

[moggie6 54]

I'd be upset if blue lights were taken away from volunteers. While I feel a majority of EMT bravo users are located in bedroom communities of nyc there are many vollies in rural communities of ny. Places that make Pine Plains and Millerton seem like big cities. I know when i'm in parts of Ulstser, Sullivan, Green, and Columbia Counties that if I see a blue light I pull over for them. Someone needs help, I don't have a scanner, and it could be my family they are going to help. Do I agree with people driving like they do sometime with blue lights. No. Not at all. I think if the state decided to take blue or green lights away i'd be upset for the volunteers in the more rural areas of the state where the blue light still means something.

Would I still work as a firefighter with out a pension? No. I would have gone and become a police officer and continued to be a volunteer firefighter. Collected two pensions at once, LOSAP and State. Seems like no one wants to look at the law enforcement pension system. Why didn't we ask if police officers would still be cops if they didn't have a pension? After all we are both in the same pension system.

Edited January 3, 2010 by moggie6

[Bnechis 3,961]

Now let me ask this.........Would you still be a career FF...............if they didn't have pensions?

I would not have taken the 50% pay cut from what I was making before. I understood that the upfront pay was less, but the pension made up for it.

Now since you brought it up......

Would you stop volunteering if your department didnt have a LOSAP? Think carefully on this one because it is a very slippery slope.

I have asked a number of times (both here and to companies that run LOSAP's) what is the average number of recruits brougt in because of LOSAP. I have never seen an answer. In looking at most VFD's with LOSAP, the number of FF's has not improved since they got the LOSAP so I believe that as a recruitment tool its a failure, at least until someone can prove it actually works.

Now as a retention tool, just like blue lights I think most volunteers who are planning to stay will stay because they want to, not because they get a blue light or LOSAP. But how was it soid to the taxpayers? In many communities it was sold as a recruiting & retention program (Often with the sales pitch that its a lot cheaper than having to hire career ff's), if it has not recruited members, does it retain members?

Or is it just a reward for volunteering?

If it is a reward, then it should have been sold as such.

From what I have heard from the most dedicated volunteers is LOSAP is the worst thing they could have ever done in there depts. If your dept has LOSAP:

1) has it improved the numbers?

2) increased the number of people that show up to the fire house, but really do not participate?

3) made no difference (the numbers of members is the same or less)?

[xchief2x 79]

Barry

I joined my dept way back in 1972, I wasn't promised anything and I expected nothing and I still feel that way. I was against and still am against our losap program and I believe it is one of the worst things we have done. We have people that come around just for thier points, the first thing they look for is the call sheet so they can sign in and then usually disappear, they do the same thing for training sessions as well. I continue to respond, train, attend meetings, etc because I want to not for the losap as I could car eless abot it. I really haven't seen an increase in members since we started this program, we get a few each year and lose a few each year and unfortunately the ones we lose are usuallly good firefighters.

As for the original topic "courtesy lights" My opinio is that no one really understands their purpose including those that use them as well as the general public. How many of you with blue lights have written authorization from your Chief as required by law?

As for asking the question of career Firefighters taking the job if there wee no pension, who in this day & age would take a job that offers no pension?

[Bnechis 3,961]

Thanks Gerry

[PC_420 28]

As for asking the question of career Firefighters taking the job if there wee no pension, who in this day & age would take a job that offers no pension?

That would actually be the 911 Dispatchers in New York State who continue to be snubbed by the political leaders in Albany year after year.

As for the question on whether to volunteer without blue lights: Of course I would still. I joined to help people and be part of something bigger than myself and be part of the American dream which was born on the back of volunteers. But I must take slight insult from the original poster of this forum. It almost suggests that to be a volunteer you must be a buff to want to help others. If anybody should be reprimanded on this forum (cause I know one person has that had commented on this forum) it should be the original poster for asking and subtlely suggesting that volunteers are only worth as much they are given to do their job, when in reality it's the volunteers who will do this for up to 20 years without any compensation at all except for those few parties and fewer saves that we will get in our life times.

Edited January 3, 2010 by PC_420