Red lights

[ex-commish 490]

I am not a "light person" but I have a question. This morning on my way to work I saw a person responding to call in his POV (SUV) that had red lights flashing in the rear window. Despite it looking ridiculous is this illegal?

[v85 212]

Depends on who it was. If it was a fire chief or assistant chief, or the chief officer of an ambulance corps, or an EMT whose vehicle is DOH certified as a fly car, than no it is not illegal.

[mricorp 12]

Depends on who it was. If it was a fire chief or assistant chief, or the chief officer of an ambulance corps, or an EMT whose vehicle is DOH certified as a fly car, than no it is not illegal.

Technically not illegal if it was facing to the rear.

[Mark Z 18]

Depends on who it was. If it was a fire chief or assistant chief, or the chief officer of an ambulance corps, or an EMT whose vehicle is DOH certified as a fly car, than no it is not illegal.

How does one go about that?

[firemoose827 324]

Last time I knew from my captain days, only fire chiefs, and Advanced Life Support personnel with permission from their squad captains could run reds in their vehicle. But only one light, either a flasher or rotator located in the front of the vehicle. Strobes were not allowed (ofcourse you wouldnt of even known they were illegal nowadays with everyone turning every light on their vehicle into strobes)

[helicopper 1,050]

How does one go about that?

Follow the guidance from the DOH EMS Program and your agency's SOP for such a designation.

The DOH Policy Statement is attached for your review...05-02.pdf

[helicopper 1,050]

Technically not illegal if it was facing to the rear.

On what do you base this statement?

Red and white lights are addressed in the NYS VTL (Section 375-41) and there is no distinction about the direction they're facing.

[pfdfirefighter01 1]

On what do you base this statement?

Red and white lights are addressed in the NYS VTL (Section 375-41) and there is no distinction about the direction they're facing.

I always thought the same because they are facing the rear. Now most of the H.E.L.P. trucks on I-684 and I-287 have red flashing lights in the rear, shouldnt that be illegal.

Edited January 3, 2010 by pfdfirefighter01

[INIT915 1,119]

I always thought the same because they are facing the rear. Now most of the H.E.L.P. trucks on I-684 and I-287 have red flashing lights in the rear, shouldnt that be illegal.

The H.E.L.P. Trucks are managed by and operate under authority of the State Police.

[mreis95 77]

I always thought the same because they are facing the rear. Now most of the H.E.L.P. trucks on I-684 and I-287 have red flashing lights in the rear, shouldnt that be illegal.

HELP Trucks also have sirens.

[helicopper 1,050]

The H.E.L.P. Trucks are managed by and operate under authority of the State Police.

I thought that they were managed/overseen by DOT and dispatched/coordinated by the State Police?

HELP Trucks also have sirens.

Since when do HELP trucks have sirens? Unless the law has been changed, the lighting scheme (and sirens if they have them) on the trucks is illegal as they are not defined emergency vehicles in the law.

On 87/287/95 they may fall under Thruway Authority regulations and there may be a provision for different lighting but that still doesn't trump the law does it?

INIT, do you know under what authority they have red/white lights?

[INIT915 1,119]

I thought that they were managed/overseen by DOT and dispatched/coordinated by the State Police?

INIT, do you know under what authority they have red/white lights?

Well, the contract is awarded by NYS-DOT. NYS-DOT in turn funds the program, which manages/directs/coordinates the Trucks. That function is taken care of by NYSP personnel at SP Hawthorne.

As for the lighting issue. Let me just say, as a disclaimer, I don't *personally* believe the Red/White/Blue lights are properly authorized. However, I imagine the rationale may be that they fall under the "Authorized Emergency Vehicle Statute" as they are (arguably) State Police vehicles.

So, on both accounts, management and lighting, the case can be made they are gray areas.

Edited January 3, 2010 by INIT915

[gamewell45 258]

Technically not illegal if it was facing to the rear.

You are correct when it comes to flashing red lights; It's a national standard and as such is legal in all 50 states.

[mreis95 77]

I thought that they were managed/overseen by DOT and dispatched/coordinated by the State Police?

Since when do HELP trucks have sirens? Unless the law has been changed, the lighting scheme (and sirens if they have them) on the trucks is illegal as they are not defined emergency vehicles in the law.

On 87/287/95 they may fall under Thruway Authority regulations and there may be a provision for different lighting but that still doesn't trump the law does it?

I have no idea but one of them pulled out from the shoulder after helping a motorist with what appeared to be a flat tire in the area of Readers Digest on the Saw Mill (no lie) a siren (wail, yelp what have you) and blasting an electronic air horn to get through traffic then took off in the left lane siren still blaring and got off the Saw Mill at the Chappaqua exit. When he got behind me in traffic I didn't know what to think because they have amber and white lights to the front so I didnt move (they arent emergency vehicles) then he just blasted the air horn at me until i decided whatever and moved over. I hsve no idea why help trucks have sirens or why help trucks even need to have them.

Edited January 3, 2010 by mreis95

[Mark Z 18]

I have no idea but one of them pulled out from the shoulder after helping a motorist with what appeared to be a flat tire in the area of Readers Digest on the Saw Mill (no lie) a siren (wail, yelp what have you) and blasting an electronic air horn to get through traffic then took off in the left lane siren still blaring and got off the Saw Mill at the Chappaqua exit. When he got behind me in traffic I didn't know what to think because they have amber and white lights to the front so I didnt move (they arent emergency vehicles) then he just blasted the air horn at me until i decided whatever and moved over. I hsve no idea why help trucks have sirens or why help trucks even need to have them.

Strictly so as to be able to reach a stranded motrist blocking traffic on a bridge etc.

[mricorp 12]

I have no idea but one of them pulled out from the shoulder after helping a motorist with what appeared to be a flat tire in the area of Readers Digest on the Saw Mill (no lie) a siren (wail, yelp what have you) and blasting an electronic air horn to get through traffic then took off in the left lane siren still blaring and got off the Saw Mill at the Chappaqua exit. When he got behind me in traffic I didn't know what to think because they have amber and white lights to the front so I didnt move (they arent emergency vehicles) then he just blasted the air horn at me until i decided whatever and moved over. I hsve no idea why help trucks have sirens or why help trucks even need to have them.

As far as Westchester is concerned I believe they have the red lights and sirens because the trucks are run by a tow truck operator who thinks all the vehicles in there fleet are emergency vehicles.

These are not emergency vehicles and should not be posing as such. I am just waiting for the day (and you know it will come) when one of these guys starts overstepping even further and decides to start doing traffic stops. Then you will see the problem get addressed.

[yanks4ever1320 6]

Even worse than what mricorp stated that they start doing traffic stops, what happens if they get into an mva and kill someone running lights and sirens? thats when we have a real problem to address.

mreis95 stated that they got behind him with amber and white lights, when i see front facing amber lights, I think something like a tow truck or a plow truck, its not a vehicle that I'm going to pull over for, correct me if I'm wrong but aren't amber lights just caution lights?

Edited January 3, 2010 by yanks4ever1320

[mreis95 77]

Yeah i thought they were caution too hence me not pulling over but then he turned the siren on and blew the air horn it wasn't worth it. I thought white lights were only allowed if you were an emergency vehicle?

[mricorp 12]

Yeah i thought they were caution too hence me not pulling over but then he turned the siren on and blew the air horn it wasn't worth it. I thought white lights were only allowed if you were an emergency vehicle?

What you experienced is nothing but intimidation.

I have been watching the lights on the Westchester trucks evolve from all amber, to amber with two red lights in the back, to all red in the back, to now all red in the back, red on the rear and front sides, and white/amber to the front. I am just waiting to see how much longer until the front of the bar is red too.

[mreis95 77]

What you experienced is nothing but intimidation.

I have been watching the lights on the Westchester trucks evolve from all amber, to amber with two red lights in the back, to all red in the back, to now all red in the back, red on the rear and front sides, and white/amber to the front. I am just waiting to see how much longer until the front of the bar is red too.

Oh i'm sure they will make it all red and who knows maybe they will add blue to the rear of the light bar too.

[helicopper 1,050]

You are correct when it comes to flashing red lights; It's a national standard and as such is legal in all 50 states.

What national standard are you referring too? What federal regulation trumps state law on such matters?

BTW, if this were true, all police cars would be red/blue front/rear because that's the national standard - but NY doesn't recognize it so it is NOT the law.

Please cite your sources.

Thanks!

[Guest]

According to Chapter 246, Sec 14-96p of CT Statutes, a vehicle may not display 'any light visible from the front thereof other than white, yellow or amber, or any light other than red, yellow, amber or white visible from the rear thereof'. There are considerations for permits for flashing headlights, blue lights, and green lights in that section as well, however it would seem, in the state of CT, that flashing rear-facing red lights are legal, just like turn signals may be red when in the rear. Someone else can do the research for NY...

[64FFMJK 21]

I do not know the exact truth however I was told that there is a case standard in NY from a plow company on LI that was cited for red to the rear since we have all seen all the plow trucks running around with strobes in the brake light housings. So is it legal probably not however a judge in NY said that its OK for this company to have red flashing lights to the rear so he opened a flood gate.

I will try to find out more info when I go back to work from Vacation.

[64FFMJK 21]

BTW, if this were true, all police cars would be red/blue front/rear because that's the national standard - but NY doesn't recognize it so it is NOT the law.

What a great thing it would be for there to be a national standard for vehicle lights and warning lights since so many people are relocating or driving on vacation now and have no clue what color means what if not in there home state. Then again NY's don't seem to know what red lights and sirens mean in NY.

[Patch6713 18]

Do red four way flashers constitute rear flashing red lights? If so most vehicle would be breaking the law.

[Guest Bootheng161]

mreis95 funny you should say that about the HELP truck having all red lightbars I saw 2 differnt HELP trucks with all red lightbars they both had the Vector lightbar the one with 7 light pods I saw one on RT 9 in Croton and 9A in Ossinig I was told they are driven by state troopers to catch speeders. I don't no if its just rumor or true but there are 2 different trucks with red lightbars they have different numbers on the side fenders .

[abaduck 123]

mreis95 funny you should say that about the HELP truck having all red lightbars I saw 2 differnt HELP trucks with all red lightbars they both had the Vector lightbar the one with 7 light pods I saw one on RT 9 in Croton and 9A in Ossinig I was told they are driven by state troopers to catch speeders. I don't no if its just rumor or true but there are 2 different trucks with red lightbars they have different numbers on the side fenders .

I'm skeptical. I doubt that would be allowed; word will inevitably get about that a HELP truck may be operated by an LEO. How do you think the regular HELP truck operators will feel about that? What risks might it expose them to? There was a debate along similar lines not so long ago when a fire chief permitted cops to wear turnouts for purposes of deception, to end a siege situation.

[INIT915 1,119]

I was told they are driven by state troopers to catch speeders. I don't no if its just rumor or true but there are 2 different trucks with red lightbars they have different numbers on the side fenders .

That's completely false.

[TL2L31 8]

HELP Trucks also have sirens.

I thought they used electronic air horns which are not a siren although they sound like they air horn part of a siren.

[mreis95 77]

I thought they used electronic air horns which are not a siren although they sound like they air horn part of a siren.

Nope this wasn't just an air horn it had other tones as well.