15 minute delayed response fire in Buffalo

[MJP399 4]

Frantic 911 cell call gets no action for 15 minutes as three die in house fire

http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/903742.html

This is unfortunate right before the holidays.

[PCFD ENG58 1,085]

If the person called on a fire emergency line at least a fire responce will show up. In 911 you don't know what you got with a limited info call and only get the P.D. The story never said how long it took for the F.D. to get there, but after that time it really dosen't matter.

[helicopper 1,050]

If the person called on a fire emergency line at least a fire responce will show up. In 911 you don't know what you got with a limited info call and only get the P.D. The story never said how long it took for the F.D. to get there, but after that time it really dosen't matter.

I can't believe you're actually advocating seven digit numbers instead of 911. The problem here wasn't that they dispatched police to a fire call; it was that the woman didn't tell anyone what was going on and the call was terminated before they could find out. What if this was a domestic and instead of a fire at her back door it was an ex with a gun. Here comes the FD bouncing into the backyard because she called your seven digit number instead of 911 and you responded. Now we've got dead or injured firefighters.

This is a great example of why the whole 911 system needs to be overhauled and updated. No more political PSAPS - one PSAP for wired and cellular phones in Westchester County, centralized communications, and trained dispatchers to handle the workload.

[Bnechis 3,961]

If the person called on a fire emergency line at least a fire responce will show up. In 911 you don't know what you got with a limited info call and only get the P.D. The story never said how long it took for the F.D. to get there, but after that time it really dosen't matter.

Let me get this straight I have a cell phone and I know 911 will get me help, but I happen to know the 7 digit emergency #, I'll call that.

1) I hope I do not get cut off before I give any info, because at a minimum when I call 911 they might get my number and a general location.

2) I hope I actually know which of the 58 fire departments actually is the right one. As a probie I was 2nd due to a well involved house fire in the North End of our city (the post office address was Scarsdale, but the house was in NR)While we were stretching the 2nd line the caller (he was out walking his dog when he spotted the fire)was yelling at us that he called SFD and where the H was the SFD? After the fire he got into a fight with the IC, because according to the caller the NRFD did not know that this was Scarsdale.

[PCFD ENG58 1,085]

I can't believe you're actually advocating seven digit numbers instead of 911. The problem here wasn't that they dispatched police to a fire call; it was that the woman didn't tell anyone what was going on and the call was terminated before they could find out. What if this was a domestic and instead of a fire at her back door it was an ex with a gun. Here comes the FD bouncing into the backyard because she called your seven digit number instead of 911 and you responded. Now we've got dead or injured firefighters.

This is a great example of why the whole 911 system needs to be overhauled and updated. No more political PSAPS - one PSAP for wired and cellular phones in Westchester County, centralized communications, and trained dispatchers to handle the workload.

If it was a domestic I don't think she whould have called the F.D.# Sorry 911 works so good ,what was I thinking . If I need e.m.s or the police I will dial 911, but if I need the F.D. I call the seven digt # and get the FD and not a police car to check and advise !

Edited December 27, 2009 by PCFD ENG58

[helicopper 1,050]

If it was a domestic I don't think she whould have called the F.D.# Sorry 911 works so good ,what was I thinking . If I need e.m.s or the police I will dial 911, but if I need the F.D. I call the seven digt # and get the FD and not a police car to check and advise !

Where in the article does it state that she reported a fire and the PD responded first to "check and advise"? You're jumping to a conclusion there. The article states that PD was sent to a woman screaming call, not a fire call. If the story was that they sent PD to a fire and not the FD, I'd be right there with you advocating an overhaul to the 911 system but I still wouldn't advocate using seven digit numbers to reach individual FD's.

If you read the example that bnechis posted, if that homeowner had dialed the number to the Scardsale FD, they would have had to notify the New Rochelle FD and that would have resulted in a delay also. The point is that we need to simplify the system.

The call for help was made at 2:56 a.m., but because it was from a cell phone, it was routed to Buffalo. And the screaming woman did not stay on the line long. “They lost contact with the cell phone, but the information they had was that the woman was screaming, from either 303 or 305 Hyland,” Glascott said.

The card was “punched” into the Cheektowaga computer system at 3:07 a.m. The call, to check the condition of a screaming woman, then was dispatched to patrol cars at 3:09 a.m. Four minutes later, the first car arrived at the scene.

“We’ve got one report of someone screaming into a cell phone,” he said. “We have no idea that we have a working fire. We have no idea that we have a life-threatening situation. I do not see a single human error in this situation.”

The article points out that their 911 system is antiquated and my post stated that we should be overhauling ours as well so things like this don't happen.

[JBE 328]

How about a 3 digit number for Fire and EMS??

[Bnechis 3,961]

If you read the example that bnechis posted, if that homeowner had dialed the number to the Scardsale FD, they would have had to notify the New Rochelle FD and that would have resulted in a delay also. The point is that we need to simplify the system.

Actually, in my call the caller called SFD who knew it was not in Scarsdale, they called New Rochelle (but gave the wrong street name, and our dispatcher said it was not ours, so they called Greenburgh, who called 60, who called NRFD with the correct location. We arrived with fire thru the roof, out all the windows on the top floor and 2 cars in the garage (at 530am on a sunday). We stretched a 2 1/2" to the front door , but could only make it in a few feet. We figured the family ws still in the bedrooms, lucky they were on vacation. I think the delay was more than 10 minutes.

[helicopper 1,050]

Actually, in my call the caller called SFD who knew it was not in Scarsdale, they called New Rochelle (but gave the wrong street name, and our dispatcher said it was not ours, so they called Greenburgh, who called 60, who called NRFD with the correct location. We arrived with fire thru the roof, out all the windows on the top floor and 2 cars in the garage (at 530am on a sunday). We stretched a 2 1/2" to the front door , but could only make it in a few feet. We figured the family ws still in the bedrooms, lucky they were on vacation. I think the delay was more than 10 minutes.

My bad! The bottom line is we still need to find a way to do it better!

[Remember585 815]

I don't think a single shift goes by where someone calls for help and gives us wrong location information. Luckily, between cellular signal triangulation and questioning of the caller, we can generally figure out where the emergency is.

[Bnechis 3,961]

If I need e.m.s or the police I will dial 911, but if I need the F.D. I call the seven digt # and get the FD and not a police car to check and advise!

How does the caller know that in your community the FD does not provide EMS?

Sounds like your community has a bigger issue with "check and advise" this is not the falt of 911 but a poor policy on the part of the PD or the municipality. If Westchester had centralized dispatch, the 911 call would go to a single point that would dispatch the proper agency(s) without the old check and advise.

When I worked in both vol & combo comunities the check and advise was a municipal policy because the PD did not want to "bother the volunteers". I don't know if that is still the issue, but I was told that by a number of cops in different towns.

Always loved hearing: "request for an ambulance...check and advise" what a shock when the sector car got there and asked for an ambulance. I have a particular problem with check and advise because my aunt died because of the policy (she was in her early 30's).