How would you dispatch this call?

[doug_e 0]

You are a PD dispatcher in a mid- Westchester community that handles PD/FD/EMS (not my town, by the way). The FD and EMS are all volunteer.

0745 - One of your PD units relays to you that a passing motorist flagged him down informing him of a PIAA rollover involving two vehicles.

The closest PD unit to the reported location is approximately 4 minutes away.

The FD and EMS members are available by pager/radio.

Weather and road conditions like todays' conditions.

There are no written protocols to follow - You make the call.

0746 - You recieve 2, 911 calls from motorists relaying the same information. Neither the original motorist nor the 2, 911 callers could tell if there were any injuries or entrapment.

What would you do?

Do you send a PD unit to check and advise?

Dispatch the FD?

Dispatch EMS?

[Guest alsfirefighter]

My opinion: Dispatch the job, better to have and not need then need and not have. If the department is proactive and efficient, cancel units not needed before response or responding.

Other side of argument: 2 vehicles, unknown injuries. Could send the PD to a non injury accident. If they have injuries then send them. Rollovers are not a high percentage severe injury accident unless ejection is involved. Some departments because of the their system wreak havoc on the area with tons of POV's.

[doug_e 0]

I tend to go along with the "When in doubt, send 'em out" line of thinking. However, I didn't think of the POV issue, especially at that time of day.

You are wise, though - In this real accident, no injuries.

I tend to believe that with a volunteer system you need to take into consideration the time it takes to get to the station to get the rig. If the station is 3 minutes away and the turnaround time for response is around 4 minutes, you are looking at almost 11 minutes until aid arrives at the scene.

[LCFD994 8]

Well if the dispatcher has a good head on thier shoulders they would dispatch both FD and EMS to the call, and advise them on dispatch that there are unknown injuries and that a PD unit is enroute.

If the PD unit gets there and there are no injuries and no need for the FD then they can be cancelled.

Up here in Putnam for the most part they do send PD, FD, and EMS, and if not needed they are cancelled.

So if I was the dispatcher I would send them, another point to bring up is the scene safe or not, for what ever reason, you can always have the FD and EMS stage until it is safe. and I mean this in the way if there is a PD safety issue.

[mikeinet 37]

The main principle of Emergency Medical Dispatching (as per the national course) is to "err on the side of the patient" - so in this case, send out the calverly.

It's a LOT easier to cancel a unit in route, than call out for a unit when a life is on the line.

[doug_e 0]

In this actual call I heard this morning only the PD went to the scene on a "check and advise". I felt they were remiss in not, at least, starting a medic in that direction.

[LCFD968 10]

Up here in Putnam for the most part they do send PD, FD, and EMS, and if not needed they are cancelled.

Think about it Nick, How many times do we pull to a piaa and the tow trucks are there allready. The MCI the other day the police had the been on location for at least 10 minutes before we where called. The call in Brewster same thing. Came over dispatch as 1 minor injury with state police on location. Turned into needing three ambulances 4 people going to Danbury Hosp. Trauma.

[GFD70 4]

I would dispatch PD, FD & EMS. In a case like that, always assume the worst. You can always cancel or 10-20 crews as more info comes in. Also, after the incident, a response plan should be drawn up for future incidents of the same nature.

[RWC130 594]

When is doubt send em out!

PD, FD, EMS

If not needed you can always send them home.

[DMA327 12]

LCFD... You think that's bad

Croton FD and EMS dispatched to Rt. 9 North of Senasqua for an MVA...

Police advise they are on scene with a minor accident. HAHAHAHAHA

I was the first one to pull up... NOT MINOR!!!

Five cop cars there just standing there trying to get information...

WELL, the vehicle had rolled multiple times, both occupants had been ejected with one possibly missing. One p/t had an open fracture to his arm and other working traumas. The other one had a broken kneck and was air lifted to WMC.

Always send the FD and EMS at the least, cause u never know!!!

[mikelouf2 0]

THEY SHOULD HAVE ALL DISPATCHERS SEND OUT THE FD EMS PD AT THE SAME TIME IT WILL MABEY SAVE SOMEONES LIFE

[Guest WolfEMT]

Err on the side of caution and assume that there are injuries, especially since there is a rollover of one or both vehicles. I would send out EMS (obviously) to treat the injuries and FD to do any necessary extrication. If the situation shows that there are no injuries and there is no need for extrication, it never hurts to send out cancellation tones for EMS and FD.

[JBE 328]

As it's been said, when in doubt, turn em out. I would have advised the PD unit to respond, and then been on the phone/radio to 60 to dispatch FD and EMS. PD advises no injuries?? So what?? I can't think of how many times people see a fire truck show up at an accident scene, and immediately find something wrong with themselves. Unless that cop is of a higher medical authority then the EMT's/Medics responding, sorry, I keep the bus and the units going in. No offense intended to any Police Officer who is an EMT/Medic.

[x635 4,066]

Do you send a PD unit to check and advise?

Dispatch the FD?

Dispatch EMS?

It all starts with the calltaking. People often forget and neglect that end of the dispatching duties.

[JohnnyOV 2]

send them all out

[doug_e 0]

In this case it was a verbal given to a patrol car by a passing motorist. The officer responded, found the driver out of the car walking around in good condition. Only a tow was required.

Recently we had a call where the ambulance was overlooked and 15 minutes into the call the medic was desperate to get the victim off the ground. The air temperature was below 15 degrees. The initial call was for a PIAA with possible injuries and the PD dispatcher was waiting for the arriving PD unit to "check and advise."

The medic wanted a rig from "anywhere." I don't think they realized an ambulance was never called.

[LCFD968 10]

What would you do?

Do you send a PD unit to check and advise?

Dispatch the FD?

Dispatch EMS?

Rollover should be automatic FD and EMS. Why would anybody think differently, your talking about life and death.

[CFD320 35]

Send em all...........................seconds make a difference between life and death. I wish all of our dispatchers could figure that out.

[JBE 328]

Any dispatcher with a shred of common sense, an idea of the area, and who has been trained properly will do it as we've said from the beginning. Send em all out. You can always turn em around later.

[COMMANDCHIEF 4]

Bang out both services. Cancel enroute

[Remember585 815]

I hate when I break my "kneck." :roll:

Any CFD guys remember the "minor" MVA we had a couple years ago, when to everyone's surprise it was a fatal gun-shot wound on Route 9? If memory serves, this was a PD "check and advise."

How about the FATAL head-on in October of 2003, when an ambulance only was sent first....

Perhaps a subject "trapped under a car" only warrants an Ambulance.

Two thumbs up in my opinion!!!!!

I would send PD, EMS, FD as a minimum to any unconfirmed MVA involving a roll-over, multiple cars or multiple calls. Pd usually gets there fast enough to determine if EMS and/or FD is warranted.

[doug_e 0]

I see BMFD went on one this morning. BMPD dispatched as an overturned car "lemme know what you need." However, PD was on the scene within a minute . . . To their credit they made a good call to roll EMS. The patient was transported.

Even from a liability perspective the PD should have the driver sign off on the RMA. It could come back to bite you in the keister.

We have to recognize that the PD see's this stuff all day, every day and they do a stellar job. If there was a protocol dictating the response to these types of incidents they'd follow it. In the absense of any they tend to want to clear them "in house." It's what they do - clean up the messes left by others.

[pjm1733 22]

Its an easy call for me

Sector car Going First

ESU is going to respond automatic to the radio traffic

Ambulance next

Nearest Engine and the Rescue "roll over"

Even if no injury the Engine is going to stand by till the car is right sided and removed from road.Rescue back in service asap.

NO DOUBT ABOUT IT SEND THEM OUT

On the other hand we deal with thousands of minor accidents a year and all type callers and other agency giving information. it comes down to training like everything else. Personally i err on the side of caution.SEND THEM OUT. Realistically deploying resources to minor or unwarranted calls increases liability and delays real emergency response. Try Straddling that fence.

:peace:

edited for clarity

[JBE 328]

Bang out both services. Cancel enroute

I understand that one of the things I said was turn em around if they are not needed, this lends itself to that whole liability thing. If the cop says there is no need for Fire or EMS, as a dispatcher, my response to that is, "That's nice, keep em going anyway". Let them get there, assess the situation and then take it from there. Maybe I shoulda rephrased it.

[pjm1733 22]

For those of you that read this prior to editing i hope you laughed it was a long week

[doug_e 0]

What no Salvation Army for soup?

Well that makes no sense anymore.... :-k

[mikeinet 37]

um... you need the President to come and "survey" the site as well, let's be serious!

[engine968 8]

Speaking as a county fire-ems dispatcher on Long Island, my answer is that we have a responsibility to immediately dispatch the right level of response, based on the info we are given, unless the police unit is going to be there within a minute or so. Any report of a rollover with injuries should usually trigger a fire dept/heavy rescue response with EMS. Remember our job is to act on the information we are given, not second guess the situation.

Yes, many times the call will turn out to be minor, or even unfounded, or not where the caller said it was, and it can be annoying to those responders who get sent out for nothing. But that's not the dispatcher's problem. By dispatching immediately based on the caller info you protect the victims and yourself. We took care of business, and did our job, and fulfilled our responsibility to the public. :wink:

[pjm1733 22]

.

I have to constantly second guess and evaluate information given to me.

A quick example, Saturday I reiceive a report of a car into a tree transferred to me via sp cell phone 911. The caller, a home run, giving me the exact location, minor injury, hes standing by at scene, radiator leaking causing steam. Only problem its not in my juristiction. Just over the line, but still not are call.

I take all info and personally call proper authority.

Minute or so later phones lighting up(all cell Phones) reports of car accident w fire at two different locations but all in the immediate vicinity of the original caller. one report on my side

(who is transferring these calls to me ! )

Different versions of the same incident.

What do you do ? :-k

Sent the pd to CHECK AND ADVISE

CHECK AND ADVISE

[mikeinet 37]

well....

a) As per EMD Protocols, you must take the call unless you are transfering to someone that can give the same level of pre-arrival care as yourself (aka also has EMD cards) - though I find that just complicates stuff. If you get to the point where you realize it's out of your district, just take the info and shoot the call to the right place- by the time you transfer it, they go through all the protocols again... lost time.

Yes, send PD to check and advise, BUT DO NOT DELAY FIRE/EMS DISPATCH - Dispatch them to the call YOU KNOW about, and advise them that there are additional calls in the area for a call of similar nature. (I do it all the time).

NEVER DELAY PATIENT CARE!@!