Armistice Day 90th Anniversary

[jack10562 414]

Today is Veterans Day and a United States holiday.

Today marks the 90th anniversary of Armistice Day, first proclaimed by President Woodrow Wilson, November 11 1919, to honor those who served in WW-I, and thereafter changed to Veterans Day, to honor all veterans, "a day to be dedicated to the cause of world peace"

Major hostilities of World War I were formally ended at the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month of 1918 with the German signing of the Armistice.

Thank you, to those who gave some, and for those who gave all, may you rest in peace.

[gpdexplorer 46]

Thank you to all the Veterans! I truely appreciate everything that you have done for this country, without you, this country would not be the same. To all those that are still serving, please return home safely.

[efdcapt115 1,511]

I'd like to express my gratitude to all members past and present of the mighty American Military. I remember going to my great-grandmother's house in the Bronx as a child, where she had two hard cover books that covered World War II in images and text. That was my introduction to learning what soldiers do, and what the hell of war looks like. Being at the tail end of the baby-boomer generation, I was too young for Vietnam and already on the job for the first Gulf War. Growing up in that period of relative peace as a teen, the military slipped out of my thoughts. It was like Vietnam was over and I think many of us thought during those times that war would be over forever.

When the first Gulf War came, with General Shwartzkopf (sorry for the mispell) and Colin Powell, and the way we ran over the Iraqis with minimal casualties when taking back Kuwait, I thought the military had advanced to the point where ground war and casualties were a thing of the past.

Then came the jihadis and their cowardly terrorist attacks. Suddenly, we in New York were in Pearl Harbor. Suddenly the most sickening act of mass murder had taken 343 FDNY firefighters, 23 NYPD & 37 PAPD cops, and thousands of civilians. In the aftermath, one of the powerful memories was the President standing with the brothers in the wreckage of The World Trade Center, and basically saying "it's payback time baby", and the military would take it from there.

Hindsight is always perfect. Who could have thought how forcefully our troops walked over Iraq (all the way this time) and took the fight to the jihadis? People always question, "why Iraq"? My opinion is Iraq was the kind of terrain where our soldiers could engage in urban combat (which they had been training for), and the jihadis could basically walk to the fight. And walk to the fight they did, and many many thousands of them were summarily dispatched to meet their god which they desired so much, and our troops fulfilled their wish. But Iraq II showed us that ground combat was still just as bloody as it was in those pictures I saw of WWII in my great-grandmother's book. Even with all our tech advancements, and the drones are kicking @ss no doubt over on the Pakistan/Afghanistan border, our troops still have borne a bloody battle, and suffered many casualties. A very large oversight was not being prepared for IEDs, and using Humvees that were not battle ready. How many troops did we loose from roadside bombs? Too many.

Every time I see a report of soldiers being KIA, I am reminded of 9/11/2001, the Pearl Harbor of our generation, where it all started.

Our military is relentless. They have pursued and eliminated the enemy they enagage, and these dumb assed politicians should NEVER FORGET; and let the military finish the job that began on 9/11.

I offer my respect and thanks to all who are Veterans, and all who continue to carry the fight to the enemy. The United States of America may be pretty screwed up right now; the deficit spending of the gov't, the declining dollar, some areas of this country are in virtual depression, yet the Army, Navy, Marines & Air Force continue to perform with such excellence. I'm not insensitive to too many deployments for our troops. I think we need to reinstitute the draft. It would help with the unemployment; 48% of people aged 18-24 are unemployed right now; the draft would put some of these people to work, and build up our forces to give relief to the FEW who volunteer and then are asked to rotate in and out of two wars for too many deployments. It's like the old third guy on the match annalogy; pushing your luck too far.

God Bless America and all her Veterans.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

I'd like to express my gratitude to all members past and present of the mighty American Military. I remember going to my great-grandmother's house in the Bronx as a child, where she had two hard cover books that covered World War II in images and text. That was my introduction to learning what soldiers do, and what the hell of war looks like. Being at the tail end of the baby-boomer generation, I was too young for Vietnam and already on the job for the first Gulf War. Growing up in that period of relative peace as a teen, the military slipped out of my thoughts. It was like Vietnam was over and I think many of us thought during those times that war would be over forever.

When the first Gulf War came, with General Shwartzkopf (sorry for the mispell) and Colin Powell, and the way we ran over the Iraqis with minimal casualties when taking back Kuwait, I thought the military had advanced to the point where ground war and casualties were a thing of the past.

Then came the jihadis and their cowardly terrorist attacks. Suddenly, we in New York were in Pearl Harbor. Suddenly the most sickening act of mass murder had taken 343 FDNY firefighters, 23 NYPD & 37 PAPD cops, and thousands of civilians. In the aftermath, one of the powerful memories was the President standing with the brothers in the wreckage of The World Trade Center, and basically saying "it's payback time baby", and the military would take it from there.

Hindsight is always perfect. Who could have thought how forcefully our troops walked over Iraq (all the way this time) and took the fight to the jihadis? People always question, "why Iraq"? My opinion is Iraq was the kind of terrain where our soldiers could engage in urban combat (which they had been training for), and the jihadis could basically walk to the fight. And walk to the fight they did, and many many thousands of them were summarily dispatched to meet their god which they desired so much, and our troops fulfilled their wish. But Iraq II showed us that ground combat was still just as bloody as it was in those pictures I saw of WWII in my great-grandmother's book. Even with all our tech advancements, and the drones are kicking @ss no doubt over on the Pakistan/Afghanistan border, our troops still have borne a bloody battle, and suffered many casualties. A very large oversight was not being prepared for IEDs, and using Humvees that were not battle ready. How many troops did we loose from roadside bombs? Too many.

Every time I see a report of soldiers being KIA, I am reminded of 9/11/2001, the Pearl Harbor of our generation, where it all started.

Our military is relentless. They have pursued and eliminated the enemy they enagage, and these dumb assed politicians should NEVER FORGET; and let the military finish the job that began on 9/11.

I offer my respect and thanks to all who are Veterans, and all who continue to carry the fight to the enemy. The United States of America may be pretty screwed up right now; the deficit spending of the gov't, the declining dollar, some areas of this country are in virtual depression, yet the Army, Navy, Marines & Air Force continue to perform with such excellence. I'm not insensitive to too many deployments for our troops. I think we need to reinstitute the draft. It would help with the unemployment; 48% of people aged 18-24 are unemployed right now; the draft would put some of these people to work, and build up our forces to give relief to the FEW who volunteer and then are asked to rotate in and out of two wars for too many deployments. It's like the old third guy on the match annalogy; pushing your luck too far.

God Bless America and all her Veterans.

Thank you to our Veterans and military currently serving abroad and at home.

efdcapt, respectfully I must disagree with you. I believe that re-instituting the draft is most certainly not a good idea nor a fix to the problems our country faces today. It is my opinion, and the opinion of many of my peers in the 18-24 year old range that the draft constitutes nothing more than state run military slavery. By forcing a someone to join the armed forces you are taking away basic human rights such as self-determination and freedom of choice. Those who volunteer to serve to just that, volunteer, they choose to do what they do, no one forced them to do it and there is no reason why that should change. Those who serve must believe that they are giving back to their country and that is why they are serving. If they re-instituted the draft I believe that the government would loose the vast majority of the citizens capable of active service but not serving. It is my opinion that the youth of this nation, the future of this great land would leave, flee to a place where they were not forced to fight a war they did not believe in, somewhere where the politicians listened to the people, a place where their rights and beliefs were not reflected by vocal minority of fear-mongers that used the rhetoric of 9/11 to scare their people into thinking that they must take action when it is the people in the government and the government that should have taken action before it became a problem that the average citizen must address with guns and war. The draft is a solution to weary troops. The solution is backing out of a blood bath that we started in Iraq and not ignoring the war of retribution that we all supported initially. It is true, the level of patriotism and nationalism as well as national service among this age demographic is declining, I do not think the draft is the best way to improve this. Maybe making national service in country for humanitarian, educational or service needs mandatory is a better answer. Maybe after high school, all 18-19 year olds complete some sort of service-learning experience where they give their time to learn something while service and supporting a community in the united states that might need their help staffing an ambulance or building a road or teaching in a school. To sum up my points, if the draft was reinstated could and would disenfranchise the youth of the this country creating more problems then it would solve. The draft is an unsustainable short-term fix to a long-term issue.

I leave you with quotes from some of the greatest minds to have ever lived:

Conscription subjects individual personalities to militarism. It is a form of servitude. That nations routinely tolerate it, is just one more proof of its debilitating influence.

— Albert Einstein, Sigmund Freud, H.G. Wells, Bertrand Russell and Thomas Mann in Against Conscription and the Military Training of Youth — 1930

Conscription is slavery, and I don't think that any people or nation has a right to save itself at the price of slavery for anyone, no matter what name it is called.

— Robert A. Heinlein

Edited November 11, 2009 by bvfdjc316

[Stench60 29]

I have hesitated to reply to bvfdjc316's post for several days to allow my unmitigated fury to subside. Unfortunately, it has not susided.

Let me begin by saying that I most disrespectfully disagree with you. In all honesty, I find your post beneath contempt. To suggest that the majority of this nations youth would flee their nations call is utterly absurd. Do not presume to speak for the great majority that would answer the call to the colors. You speak as if your entire generation would rise up as one and take flight to some nation that had the enlightenment to settle conflicts without resort to arms, well I certainly invite to do so yourself and see if others follow. Perhaps you can book a trip with Alec Baldwin and Michael Moore the next time they threaten to flee to Canada because we the people had the temerity to elect someone not to their liking. But then again, a nation so unwilling to defend itself would a very short life left anyway. If unfortunately what you say is true, I weep for our future, but I don't believe for a moment that we have become so craven as a nation.

As to state run military slavery, well what can I say, the service in the defense of ones nation is the furthest thing possible from slavery,it is an honor, after all who would allow their slaves to bear loaded weapons? I believe the Romans tried this little experiment, when you finish fishing the internet for quotes try Livy or Plutarch and look into a fellow named Spartacus (looked just like Michael Douglas's father) and the servile revolts. The draft is the fairest, most equitable way to spread the duty amongst all the citizens of the nation. Are you implying that certain groups should be above service to the nation? After all, why should my junior serve in the nasty military for a few years when he can teach the poverty stricken for 6 months. You want to make it equitable, you serve in the military for two years or you build roads for ten at a privates pay. That's equitable!

I'm still trying to figure out the disenfranchisment that you mention, since when do military personell lose their right to vote?

Needless to say, I'm a great supporter of compulsory military service for all, It's a long term fix to a short term problem.

After all, it seems to work very well for the Swiss and the Israeli's.

To every veteran who has ever served, draftee or enlistee and gave me the rights and privileges that I enjoy as an american citizen........... Thank You! and Semper Fi

[SageVigiles 1,194]

While I definitely do not agree that most of America's youth would "draft dodge" to another nation, the government would certainly have to stop the exemption due to college enrollment. The number of young adults in college today is exponentially higher than it was during the last time when America had a draft.

I do however, oppose a draft, and not for selfish "I don't want to serve" reasons or "I hate the establishment" reasons. Being of the age group that would be drafted, I would not want to serve with all the kids I graduated with. I wouldn't trust them with a Nerf gun or a motor scooter, much less an M16 or an M1 Abrams Main Battle Tank. 90% of the people my age are lazy, media brainwashed zombies whose only political ambitions are that of whatever celebrity was on MTV or the news that day. Maybe its just a New England thing, but most of the people my age around my old high school and now my college would probably be more of a hindrance than a help in the military. No discipline, no respect for authority, no sense of patriotism...

That being said, some of the guys and girls I went to or currently go to school with have already began promising military careers and are making my town proud. I really regret not entering the Armed Services sometimes, but that just wasn't the choice I made.

Thanks to all who have served before and best wishes to all the US forces currently serving at home and abroad, may you all come home safe and may the fallen not be forgotten. Don't forget the Vet!

[ny10570 745]

bvfdjc, look up Col David Hackworth. Phenomenal soldier and legendary leader. Proved himself many times over in WW2 and Korea as a soldier and then in Vietnam as an officer. On several occasions he discussed his thoughts on conscripts and generally felt they helped keep the military honest and brought additional tools otherwise not available. If you look at other countries with mandatory military service there are alternatives to the military, however they take some effort to get into. Another thing, you give your draftable brethren far too much credit. Its rough out there truly on your own and few have the stones to take that stand.

Sage there is no organization better equipped or more capable of turning a useless lump of human flesh into a productive, reliable, leader than the US military. If its as bleak a picture as you paint it, then mandatory military is the way to go.