Food for Thought

[gpdexplorer 46]

Brothers and Sisters,

I stumpled across this picture online and thought it was worth sharing. The fire service is one of the greatest life paths that anyone can take. Career or Volunteer, we should all have the same goal in mind. In today's society, there is no reason for any of us to engage in, for lack of better terms, a pissing match. We are all here to serve the people of our cities, towns, villages, and districts. While some may not believe it, there will be a day in which we have to work side by side, and most likely will not be in an environment where a train of thought is "Is he/she a paid guy?" or "Is he/she a jolly volly?" All too often, we see discussions begin to take a Paid vs. Volunteer turn here.

So all I ask is, the following:

Swallow your pride, we call each other brothers and sisters, let's begin to act like it. We are on the same team.

Remember what the fire service is about. It's not about how big and shiny your truck is, or how runs you go on, or how dirty your gear is. We are here to serve others.

If we don't, we will be the down fall to the service which we all love.

Stay Safe!

Edited November 2, 2009 by gpdexplorer

[JFLYNN 681]

Brothers and Sisters,

I stumpled across this picture online and thought it was worth sharing. The fire service is one of the greatest life paths that anyone can take. Career or Volunteer, we should all have the same goal in mind. In today's society, there is no reason for any of us to engage in, for lack of better terms, a pissing match. We are all here to serve the people of our cities, towns, villages, and districts. While some may not believe it, there will be a day in which we have to work side by side, and most likely will not be in an environment where a train of thought is "Is he/she a paid guy?" or "Is he/she a jolly volly?" All too often, we see discussions begin to take a Paid vs. Volunteer turn here.

So all I ask is, the following:

Swallow your pride, we call each other brothers and sisters, let's begin to act like it. We are on the same team.

Remember what the fire service is about. It's not about how big and shiny your truck is, or how runs you go on, or how dirty your gear is. We are here to serve others.

If we don't, we will be the down fall to the service which we all love.

Stay Safe!

Why did you decide to bring this up? Apparently you have the problem. Since you decided to bring this issue up AGAIN, I must state that I disagree completely with the cartoon...the "wrench in the machine" is the fact that not only do the major volunteer fire service organizations refuse to allow basic minimum standards to be set for their members, further they continue to fight against legislation and funding which would benefit career firefighters and fire departments and the populace they protect. There is a HUGE difference between career and volunteer departments. This is not to say that volunteer firefighters and fire departments are not necessary in certain areas, they are, and many, if not most, volunteer firefighters are decent, honorable, community minded people. However, the standard is not the same, period, and it would be dangerous and irresponsible for any firefighter, career OR volunteer to pretend that it is for political correctness sake. Maybe it is YOUR ego that it is getting in the way? Why can't you just admit to the very many differences between minimum stabdards for career and volunteer firefighters and stop pretending to be something that you are not for the sake of your own false pride and ego? Do your thing in your community and leave us alone please and we will do the same.

[helicopper 1,050]

A word of caution...

This will likely become an emotionally charged thread for a few members and that emotion may cloud logic, reason, and good judgement in some responses. For that reason, PLEASE, please read your comments very carefully BEFORE you hit the "post" button and make sure you're contributing to the discussion and not merely making someones point for them!

[x129K 1,393]

Do your thing in your community and leave us alone please and we will do the same.

Amen......as usual.

[gpdexplorer 46]

I'm sorry that I saw a cartoon and thought to share it. I don't recall bringing this issue up before, so how can one say that I brought it up again? I only brought it up because I've heard people on both side of the fence say things about the other side that don't need to be said. I legitimately did not think anyone would see this post as negative, and have asked that it be deleted in order to prevent heated arguments from starting. I was not trying to say that blame deserves to be placed on either side. I have the upmost respect for all firefighters, career or volunteer, it doesn't matter to me. So once again, my apologies, if I offended you some how, and hopefully the thread will be deleted soon.

[FFPCogs 863]

I don't find the cartoon offensive at all. The fact is there IS animosity between career and volunteer sectors and it is the egos on both "sides" that perpetuate it. Let everyone have their say, no matter how offensive, for that is the only way to cut through all the BS and deal with the issues that divide us...and there are issue which divide us.

Maybe something good can come from all the bashing, since most of it has at least some validity behind it. Critisism even when hostile is usually based, at least in part on valid identifiable and correctable problems from both sides of the coin. So yes while it is critisism it is also valid so it needn't be feared. Taken in that light it can lead to progress on alleviating those problems which divide us.

2 very common cases in point:

1) Different standards for career and volunteer firefighters. A difference based in separation not unity which itself breeds acrimony. If we all are here to do the job of firefighting than we should all be held to the same standards...period. As is often said fire doesn't know the difference between career or volunteer firefighters, why then do we? If VFDs have trouble meeting the standards then they need to re-evalute their operations and formulate plans to effectively meet them. We no longer live in a time or place where firefighting is a secondary service stemming from a social organization and we must rise up to accept this fact, otherwise it is the community that suffers. Standards exist to help ensure not only competent but equal service for all, which they rightly deserve. When we hold ourselves to different standards we help to create the divisiveness which seperates us and in that we all lose.

2) The IAFFs assertion that volunteer fire dept.s are "rival organizations". This policy is to me is not only divisive, but offensive. How in God's name am I a rival to a career firefighter? I am here to do my duty and serve my community, just as they are. I take my responsibilites just as seriously as any career firefighter and carry out those responsibilites just as professionally. I do not "take food from the mouths of their families" for my organization has been in existence since long before any of us were in the fire service, or in most cases even born. It an established entity duly chartered to provide fire protection to it's assigned district. Anyone hired here knows we are here just as we have been for 81 years. They are fully aware that we have been and are a part of "the system" that exists since before they were hired. A system that exists is not a threat to those who enter into it knowing it exists. Also, I do not know of any volunteers who seek to take the jobs or livelihoods of ANY career firefighters anywhere. So how then am I or we, a rival?

Hammer me all you want, for airing dirty laundry allows the fresh air in...and sometimes with it new thinking.

Cogs

[ckroll 101]

If one looks closely at the cartoon, the meshed cogs of volunteers and career by definition have to turn in opposite directions. Therefore all they can do is grind the teeth off cooperation. It doesn't even take the ego wrench to stop the machine. It is designed to never start.

Anybody find this a teensy bit ironic?

[firemoose827 324]

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Why did you decide to bring this up? Apparently you have the problem. Since you decided to bring this issue up AGAIN, I must state that I disagree completely with the cartoon...the "wrench in the machine" is the fact that not only do the major volunteer fire service organizations refuse to allow basic minimum standards to be set for their members, further they continue to fight against legislation and funding which would benefit career firefighters and fire departments and the populace they protect. There is a HUGE difference between career and volunteer departments. This is not to say that volunteer firefighters and fire departments are not necessary in certain areas, they are, and many, if not most, volunteer firefighters are decent, honorable, community minded people. However, the standard is not the same, period, and it would be dangerous and irresponsible for any firefighter, career OR volunteer to pretend that it is for political correctness sake. Maybe it is YOUR ego that it is getting in the way? Why can't you just admit to the very many differences between minimum stabdards for career and volunteer firefighters and stop pretending to be something that you are not for the sake of your own false pride and ego? Do your thing in your community and leave us alone please and we will do the same.

Chief, with all due respect, I was agreeing with everything you said until that last line...That is the attitude that I feel needs to change or we will get no where. We (the dedicated volunteers that apply themselves to get training and uphold a higher standard than others) NEED professionals like you to step in and help us get the training standards raised to where they should be. Without firefighters like you that do this everyday, see fire everyday, train everyday...without you talking to the powers that be and telling them to change things for the better than we will never get the standards to where they should be.

In my recent dept, the officers CHANGED the by-laws so that a Captain who was lacking ONE officers course could become an assistant chief...Changed the laws to suit their needs.

One other Captain told me, and I quote, "State training is a joke, the instructors at the Fire Academy (Montour Falls) dont know what they are talking about, I have all the training I will need from the explorer post and dept drills."

I agree with you 100%, training standards in the volunteer service are abismal to say the least, and there are way too many "Officers" out there that have very LITTLE experience and training, but are who they are because of the popularity vote every year, where hundreds of members that dont show up all year come and vote for their buddies because they called them and asked them too, when they know nothing about what is going on in the dept. People are becoming officers when they shouldnt even be qualified as interior firefighters...its disgusting and Im fighting for change. Im not in a dept right now, I finaly decided to go to college again and get my family into a house, but when I do, I will join again and fight for the elevation of training standards to that of the career service...after all, fire is an equal opportunity killer and doesnt care if you are being paid or not, so why shouldnt we train the same then?

I hope I didnt disrespect you chief, just wanted to clarify that last line of your post.

Stay Safe everyone.

[ex-commish 490]

I agree with you 100%, training standards in the volunteer service are abismal to say the least, and there are way too many "Officers" out there that have very LITTLE experience and training, but are who they are because of the popularity vote every year, where hundreds of members that dont show up all year come and vote for their buddies because they called them and asked them too, when they know nothing about what is going on in the dept. People are becoming officers when they shouldnt even be qualified as interior firefighters...its disgusting and Im fighting for change.

Stay Safe everyone.

This is all to common today. There are many unqualified people in leadership positions due the election process. It seems people who are politically correct and afraid to rock the boat are getting elected and current leadership especially in the district level who have the ability to make changes are only concerned about staying in office for thier own political or personal agenda so they are not willing to rock the boat either. This effects many things such as training and leadership which there is truly a difference between career and volunteer departments and I challenge anyone to make a case otherwise.

[xfirefighter484x 234]

If one looks closely at the cartoon, the meshed cogs of volunteers and career by definition have to turn in opposite directions. Therefore all they can do is grind the teeth off cooperation. It doesn't even take the ego wrench to stop the machine. It is designed to never start.

Anybody find this a teensy bit ironic?

Glad I'm not the only one that noticed that...

[99subi 121]

I like to look at it this way, its like brining your car to a joe corner shop or taking it to the dealer.

[gamewell45 258]

I like to look at it this way, its like brining your car to a joe corner shop or taking it to the dealer.

Bring it to joe and might not get fixed; bring it to the dealership and after you pay the bill, you can't afford to drive it.