FDNY Engine 1 Rig

[Guest fdnyladder10]

Not sure if anyone can help, but after a bit of info on FDNY Engine 1's rig.

When i visited the station a couple of years ago, they had the ornamental King kong on the Empire State Building on the front of their rig above the cab, wandered if they still have it?? or has it been taken off.?

secondly, i was listening to Manhattan live earlier, and heard E1 on the frequency, and it sounded like they had a Q siren on the rig, do they have a new marauder or is it a Q siren they have put on the rig themselves?

Cheers for any info.

Jarrod

[PCFD ENG58 1,085]

Yes on both as of last year.

[Guest fdnyladder10]

Yes on both as of last year.

Was that yes they have a marauder, or their oold original rig with a Q siren fitted??

Thanks PCFD ENG58.

[FFLieu 70]

Speaking of Q's, what is up with Engine 74? Their Q sounds like a cat being very badly abused...lol.

[JBE 328]

That's the new electronic Q's. Last I checked, E-1 has a 2002 Seagrave, probably with a real Q.

[Guest Loud412]

E1 backs my ambulance up quite often as my unit is asigned in their response area, and they still have the 2002 and their every day engine and it apears as though the Empire state building either fell off or was removed. A far as the q sirenis concerned, ive never seen or heard them use it. doesnt mean its not there it could be hiding under the bumper or something. It seems that a lot of the companies that have a real q siren dont use them for some reason. And the new electronic ones that are on the new tower laddeers and the maurauder engines sound like someone strangling a screaming cat. The FDNY is replacing all the 1998 equiptment first. E16 on E 29 st just got thier maurauder and i got to see it while fueling my ambulance at their quarters. Verry nice truck. the guys in the back have the benifit of an MDT screen so that they and not just the officer can see the job info before they get there.

[mlfdco4 1]

FDNY Engine 1 does not have a one of the new Seagrave Marauder II Engines. They still have a 2002 engine and they do not have a "buff" siren. Some of the companies they respond in with do have "buff" sirens, so it might be possible that you heard one of theirs being used in the background (TL-21, E-34). On the job, these after-market/illegal buff mechanical sirens are sometimes referred to as "10-75" sirens. Most officers will only use the mechanical siren when it sounds like the run could be something good. All Seagrave fire apparatus delivered to the FDNY after 2005 has the Federal Signal EQ2B installed in place of the PA300, which has the simulated q-siren that sounds like a cat being stepped on.

Edited October 16, 2009 by mlfdco4

[Guest fdnyladder10]

Gentlemen, thankyou for the info. 'Loud' 412, what ambulance company do you serve with? You must cover some mileage in a shift!!!

[ny10570 745]

Let me guess Loud, you're either 07B or 07C.

[Guest Loud412]

07C2

[Alpinerunner 61]

Why are the mechanical Q sirens illegal?

[EJS1810 7]

Why are the mechanical Q sirens illegal?

Due to the electrical draw on the alternator

[mfc2257 464]

Illegal is a strong word.

They're expensive so FDNY doesn't spec them as a PA300 or an EQ2 can provide sufficient audible warning.... Personally I believe that all full size fire apparatus should have the respect of a real Q-2b.

Why there is so much drama about companies fitting them in quarters I've heard several opinions but the one I hear most often is that the shops will remove them if the rig goes in for maintenance because they don't want any unauthorized/aftermarket wiring done on the rigs for fear of voiding warranty or creating undue strain on an electrical system that my not have been spec'd to manage the draw of a real Q....

Any FDNY folks want to opine?

[61MACKBR1 222]

I quess the bottom line question is whether "Louder Is Better?"

[Guest]

A real Q draws upwards of 100amps plus. Our new eQ2B draw I think 30. Its not a price thing anymore as the new ones are almost as much as the electronic ones. But when you are required to have a PA its pointless to have both. As for company's adding them, we were told, do it and the Capt will answer directly to fleet services. We are not even allowed to drill in to our rig to mount tools let alone a siren.

[IzzyEng4 427]

I quess the bottom line question is whether "Louder Is Better?"

There have been significant studies between mechanical and electronic base sirens. Over the years with the introduction of new materials to deaden the sound within cars, electronic sires have failed where mechanical sirens like the 2QB and also the European-style emergency horns still have a great effect in penetrating into the cab of a car / truck.

That's why you see many electronic sirens now being designed with certain tones like the "Q sound", Euro-horn hi-low warring blasts (the way I like to call them) or the Power-Call because they work (but unfortunately many manufacturers stopped producing them after awhile for what ever reason). Many electronic sirens only produce sounds withing a certain spectrum. With a manual siren like the 2QB, the operator can control the sound being produced from a low rumble, the high whine scream and everything in between. And of course the 2QB was not made for the person to stomp on the button and hold it at the high whine for the entire trip. Why? Because its only operating at one frequency range and not the whole spectrum area of sound.

There are drawn back for operating a 2QB or the MARS mechanical sirens mainly being AMP-drawing monsters. But with the way electrical technology is today, this can be overcome easily.

So in essence (my opinion) louder is better in this case because of the sound-wave frequency spectrum that the 2QB can penetrate and travel. Of course I prefer having every audible warning device (2QB, Electronic and air horns) available on my rig because each will be able to "catch someone's ear".

[ny10570 745]

With the Q its not so much about the volume or the range of the sound, its the modulation of the sound the mechanics of the sound wave. The modulation is what allows people to determine which way the sound is coming from. My cycling the siren tone high and low it gives the left and right ear a chance to try and determine which ear is hearing the sound first, and therefor where the sound is coming from. If you pin your Q on high wine or your electric siren on any rapidly repeating noise the person become disoriented and cannot determine where the sound is coming from. A similar affect occurs in urban settings where the sounds can echo off the buildings confusing the ears. I have to try and dig the paper out of my old laptop, but someone did an analysis on the net affect of the differences between a mechanical and electronic siren. Mechanical do a better job at penetrating sound insulation and traveling further. If you want a mechanical siren without the draw of a Q, I believe Timberwolf makes a mechanical siren popular on smaller rigs and ambulances out west.

[M' Ave 1,466]

Illegal is a strong word.

They're expensive so FDNY doesn't spec them as a PA300 or an EQ2 can provide sufficient audible warning.... Personally I believe that all full size fire apparatus should have the respect of a real Q-2b.

Why there is so much drama about companies fitting them in quarters I've heard several opinions but the one I hear most often is that the shops will remove them if the rig goes in for maintenance because they don't want any unauthorized/aftermarket wiring done on the rigs for fear of voiding warranty or creating undue strain on an electrical system that my not have been spec'd to manage the draw of a real Q....

Any FDNY folks want to opine?

The "Q" is buffy and guys like the sound. That's the ONLY reason that some companies (including mine) have them. They look cool, they sound cool and that's that. Getting into the "what's more effective" game is going a little over the top, in my opinion. If they don't hear the siren, they'll hear the air horn or move when you take up the entire rearview mirror other their car. They're fun, they're classic, they're buffy and that's all cool. Lets just leave it at that. And yes....we remove it when it goes to "da shops"

(To the first poster: You visited E. 1's HOUSE, we live there, it's not a station )

[16fire5 693]

As for the MDT screen in the back it seems as though they are going around and intallling them on older rigs.

[M' Ave 1,466]

As for the MDT screen in the back it seems as though they are going around and intallling them on older rigs.

They are. Our '02 has been retrofit with a "crew cab" MDT, as the they call it. This is one of the best ideas to come out of...well, wherever it came from. I can't tell you how often we're out on the road and a run comes in. Previously, the guy sitting with his back to the officer had to crane his neck around and try to see the MDT screen through the scratched plexi-glass. This was how you found out what you were going to. Now, when we get a run, we hear the MDT ring and up comes the info for all to see. We get incident information, location, the response rundown and hopefully C.I.D.S. for the building. As they say, size up begins at the receipt of the alarm ticket. It's an excellent tool.

[16fire5 693]

They are. Our '02 has been retrofit with a "crew cab" MDT, as the they call it. This is one of the best ideas to come out of...well, wherever it came from. I can't tell you how often we're out on the road and a run comes in. Previously, the guy sitting with his back to the officer had to crane his neck around and try to see the MDT screen through the scratched plexi-glass. This was how you found out what you were going to. Now, when we get a run, we hear the MDT ring and up comes the info for all to see. We get incident information, location, the response rundown and hopefully C.I.D.S. for the building. As they say, size up begins at the receipt of the alarm ticket. It's an excellent tool.

I used to pass the ticket back to the outside team whenever there was info about roof access or lack of rear fire escapes in the CIDS. I actually forgot it was there today and was announcing the run on the HT when the chauffeur reminded me they have the screen. Just knowing who's 10-84 helps your size up with tool assignments and what line you will have.