Minimum Training Requirments for Firefighters?

[x635 4,066]

Just curious, what is the mandatory minmimum classes required for your department and what classes do you think should be required?

My Opinion:

Firefighter I and II

EVOC

Engine Company Operations and/(or)

Truck Company Operations

Basic Rescue Operations

Hazmat First Responder

EMT or First Responder

[RES20CUE 40]

The minimum should be what is "suggested" by NFPA and required by OSHA-

At this time- Basic F/F, Intermediate F/F, Haz-Mat Ops

After 4/1/04- Firefighter I

This minmum should also be made MANDATORY by State Law makers! Still hard to believe that NYS still does not require any training for Vol F/F's, but requires 229 hours of initial training and 100 hours annual in-service training for Career F/F's. What is the problem here?????

[1075thebox 1]

Know what the problem is?

Most Volunteer Assosciations waste time fighting for stupid causes, for example the blue light law. Many people out there are members of these organizations but only on paper. If we really cared about the issues in our service, we should be attending meetings and speaking our minds!

We also spend WAY TOO MUCH TIME bickering with the Career Departments in Westchester. Focus our resources and energy on improving ourselves, like mandating training standards! Every firefighter should have the same minimum training statewide. Furthermore, FAST personnel should be trained universally as well. We all hear the comments "The paid guys are trying to eliminate us," but the truth is, we aren't helping ourselves! Take the time to better yourself, and you officers out there - motivate your people and set a good example!!!

[DRD 0]

Where can I find the NYS Laws on what is required of career and volunteer firefighters? I am very curious... Please let me know, and if possible provide a link to the text. Thanks...

DRD

[RES20CUE 40]

Minimum requirements for Career Firefighters are listed in New York State Executive Law, Section 159-d, Part 426.

There are NO requirements for Volunteers! It is left up to the "authority having jurisdiction".

[EJS1810 7]

Putnam County has suggested the following as minimum standards for Interior Firefighters. This will of course change with the deletion of Firefighter Basic, Intermediate and Advanced and the implementation of FF 1 and FF 2

Basic Fire Fighter

Intermediate Firefighter

Firefighter Survival

This gets you your Interior Status which if you joined an Putnam County FD after August 2002 is given by the County. The individual departments have to certify thier members who joined before that date.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

There are no actual "State Laws" pertaining to volunteer training levels. Only that departments are suppose to follow the OSHA fire brigade standard. Even then there isn't a law to require that, but if you not and something happens, again, your gonna get fined, and worse that dead firefighter won't be coming back. Even the system is screwed as a career firefighter, I was a "certified firefighter" in NYS when I completed the academy. As a volunteer most are only "OSHA Qualified" firefighters.

Career firefighters are required to receive training in accordance to the "Minimum Standards for Firefighting Personnel in The State of New York." Which falls under executive law Section 159-d, Part 426. It outlines the minimum required, time frame it must be received in and the 100 hr annual requirement. However, the loop hole is NY is a home rule state, so it is up to the local municipality to ensure complience. If you get caught which usually isn't till someone gets hurt or there is an investigation your then screwed.

Putnam has the right track, but I also believe in order to be OSHA interior qualified you have to have HazMat Ops.

I also have to agree with 1075, every time new standards are brought up and "raise the bar" there are arguments that its too long, we can't get people to give that much time, yada yada yada.

Finally, nothing upsets me more to hear the OSHA minimum, and NFPA recommended should be the ......

That should be the minimum!!

[Task Force 7 65]

This is what I had to go through. From the Texas Commission on Fire Protection.

A "basic structure fire suppression training program" is one that covers all the objectives of the commission's Basic Fire Suppression Curriculum. The Basic Fire Suppression Curriculum consists of 468 hours of basic fire protection training. It is roughly equivalent to the National Fire Protection Association's (NFPA) Fire Fighter I, Fire Fighter II, Driver/Operator-Pumper, HazMat-Awareness and HazMat-Operations.

I also had to take a 180 hour EMT-Basic course.

As for Volunteers it's set by each jurisdiction. However there is a Volunteer Firefighters certification by the State Firemen's and Fire Marshals' Association of Texas. I'm not sure how many hours it is.

[CFD320 35]

I would like to preface the following comments by saying; I believe more training for volunteer firefighters should be required. Furthermore I whole heartedly agree with the concept “the more training the better”.

That being said, there are two problems with mandating hundreds of hours of training for new firefighters. First, it is very difficult to recruit new members into volunteer outfits. It is very unfortunate, but I speak to a whole lot of people about becoming volunteers who say, “What do I get out of it?” And I usually get a sentence that goes like this: “So I have to go to about 100 hours of training plus a whole bunch of OSHA hours, and in-house training before I can do anything”. It seems like a very daunting task for a guy who works 50 hours a week who has 2 kids and a wife to complete that amount of training. As we all know, there are many important jobs to be carried out at the scene of any emergency. Not every guy who joins a volunteer outfit needs to be on a hose line, or the department FAS/RIT team. Volunteers aren’t limited to the crew on their apparatus like carrer units initially are. Not every member of a volunteer truck company needs to be comfortable 80’ off the ground on the end of a stick. What volunteer officer wouldn’t love 5 new members of their company with good common sense and genuine interest in learning? From those five members two or three will probably like what they see and take more training as their interest grows. I take my hat off to Task Force 7 who took over 600 hours of training just to get in the door. Unfortunately there are not many like you around, especially in Westchester county where the average cost of a house is over half a million dollars.

Second, not to pick on any specific training facility or class curriculum, but a bunch of the training available out there is less than great. Don’t get me wrong, I have taken some training classes that were outstanding and others that were not very informative. Another issue arises is that for all classes I have attended, simple attendance is the only requirement for completion. Obviously, simply attending a class where some aspect of fire/rescue/ems is discussed doesn’t make anyone a more knowledgeable firefighter. There is NO substitute for a bit of common scene, and the ability to think outside the box. We all know a firefighter with a long resume of training classes who we wouldn’t feel supremely confident in entrusting our life to. In my opinion there needs to be much more in-house training which can be much more specifically tailored to individual weaknesses. Hundreds of hours of training does not automatically make a person a good firefighter. I do admit 100 hours is much better than the 36 hours that was required of me when I first joined.

Motivating people to attend any type of training is troublesome; we all need to remember this is volunteerism. There is no such thing as mandatory training for a volunteer. If we require that much more training to belong we will get that many less people to join and/or continue to volunteer. Exterior laddering, controlling traffic, flaking out a hose line, accountability, carrying tools, are these not important tasks? Does a guy need 400 hours of training to unquestionably follow an order?

Well that’s enough of my babble…

](*,)

[BFD1054 1,552]

CFD320, i think you have hit the nail on the head! Everything you covered was absolutely right! I to have talked to people to see if they would be interested in joining the FD, and i get the same answers over and over again. Its bad enough that departments have a hard time recruiting members, but then to tell them they have to take over a 100 hours of training off the bat is crazy. When i first joined, i to took the 36 Hour essentials, and i'll admit i thought that was a bit much at the time. Now i truly realize how important it is to train, so i take as many classes as possible and actually enjoy most of them. As you said, people have jobs & families, and don't have 2 free nights a week for the Firefighter-I course, which is totally understandable. I very much agree with you that there are plenty of things for guys to do, not everyone had to be initial attack on the knob. We have guys that don't like heights, so we don't make them do much ladder work. Theres guys that don't feel 100% comfortable going interior, so we use them for exterior work, which can be just as important. We even have guys that would just rather drive than anything else, which is fine by me, because i hate driving! So there are endless jobs in the fire service, but unfortunately, active firefighters must have minimum training regardless. Personally, i feel you can never have enough training and you should always continue your fire training, because its that training that may save you or someone else some day! Unfortunately, not everyone feels that way & some feel that since they are volunteer, they shouldn't have to go through so much training. I also agree that there should be more in-house training, it keeps guys up to date & helps them learn thier departments equipment. Anyway, really just wanted to say that you had an excelent post, many great points! Training is everything & there is plenty for everyone to do!

[chris 18]

Before I took F.A.S.T. I had to take survival.

Why not take survival before you go interior.

Learn the tricks to get out before you go in.

[RES20CUE 40]

Survival is included with the new Firefighter I course.