To Retone?

[Guest DFFD227]

Going back to what I asked before about the Re-tones of Bedford, Bedford Hills, Yorktown and Katonah...Do you think that 60 control should re-tone every agency, just to be safe? What if you forget the address...It would probably be better. But I can see why they don't sometimes, because this just adds more air time on the old congested 46.26.

[Fed124 0]

It would be fine if 46.26 was used for tones only and no rig traffic. You would never be able to transmit from a rig.

[Guest Mstremt]

I think its a good idea to retone the dispatch ,but it does take up airtime, i think its important to make sure the pagers get tripped but also i should add that if an agency has a uhf link to 46.26 then those agencies should have uhf pagers not low band pagers, it only makes sense. also there are plenty of uhf links in the county peekskill,mohegan,yorktown(2),pound ridge,etc. if someone does research on which link is the strongest for that area I think departments will have much better success with uhf pagers simply because research has shown that uhf has better penetration than low band ,in buildings and other steel or concrete structures. also remember the voice storage feature ,it is avail on uhf not sure about lowband,don't think so yet. VS is a nice little feature which might perhaps do away with the need to rebroadcast a missed page. Lastly, it would be nice if BIG M made a pager which can alert on two diff frequencies in a scanning mode. see the point i'm heading towards here. I have been trying to convince the powers that be in my dept to at the very least sample a uhf pager off a local 46.26 link but so far no luck. good luck and be safe

Mstremt

(Retired Radio Tech)

[Guest DG795]

It all goes back to having an up to date radio system...which we dont have. In the mean time, measures must be taken to work with what we have, until this new trunked system is operational in the future.....now whether or not this trunked system is the right logistical and financial decision for the county remains to be seen. But anything is better then the "party call" system now.

[Oswegowind 17]

Katonah, Bedford, the hills, and also Yorktown get toned out twice for one reason....radio coverage is spotty at best in northern westchester, and the tones are put off two different towers to try to ensure full coverage. There have been some problems with the mountain lakes tower and its reliability, and the dept's that utilize this tower are working with 60 control to find a solution. I dont know each dept's exact protocols for tower use, but yorktown transmits once off the mountain lakes tower, and once through our UHF repeater.

Another note on DTMF tones dispatching companies, which many of you probably know already. Yonkers Fire Stations are alerted by a DTMF sequence on their low band freq. the two tones heard are the numbers of the station (i.e. E310 is alerted, the DTMF sequence is a 1, then a 0, sounds the same as if you hit 1 and 0 on your touchtone phone)

Remember when that cool Empress dispatcher was utilizing DTMF tones for each of the units on, on Sunday nights...too bad he is no longer there.

Tones help somewhat, however in a system where you are "at work" and have to listen to the radio (i.e. Empress, YFD) than there are no reason for individual company tones, other than it sounds cool. See, the tones are important for volunteer agencies, where everyone is on call all of the time and should not have to listen all of the time, there fore a pager is optimal. However professional units should use tones as a means of waking up personnel whom missed the first call to them or on jobs signifying priority (i.e. YPD).

Re-dispatch is useless...if you didn't hear it the first time, you lose...kidding!!! Re-dispatch is important, sometimes you only hear what you want the first time (i.e. structure fire), and miss the important thing like, the person who started the fire has a gun and will shoot any firefighter that comes near the structure...it increases safety, of course my example it a little over the top, but it makes a point...All too many times, persons who don't live the job get very excited and miss things, not to say that pros don't miss things either (i.e. Reben) such as EDP waving a knife ifo the address, await ESU...

Updates are also good and should be held for re-dispatch when we know that someone is either enroute in their car or apparatus.

[x635 4,066]

No, it is NOT very important to keep toning out, especially when you are dispatching and operatying on such a congested frequency as 46.26. This not only ties up the WHOLE county radio system, but the dispatcher(s), but can and will cost lives. If the tones are going out repeatedly,], how are other units supposed to communicate with each other and what if there is a fire in another community simultanously. My opinion, 1 dispatch per incident, or a second if the job gets upgraded or special circumstances warranrt. A "Rattle Off" is a better alternative to several tones.

DFFD227 "Structure Fire", and the dispatcher sounds very excited, all you care about is "Ok, We have a fire...Lets get there quick".

1. Not quick....safely and efficently.

2. When I hear a dispatch, I listen to all the details the first time.If I miss someting, I ask my partner or then ask dispatch again. How can I say I am going to be safe and do my job correctly if I do not get all the details to start. THATS how response errors occur.

Bedford is dispatched twice anways, on two seperate towers. Sometimes, when a job is UPGRADED, it is redispatched.

Listen to the job the first time,(Get further info off alpha page or MDT) make a mental plan, and go.

[x635 4,066]

Maybe 2 minutes later the dispatcher should irepeat the address and incident type. BUT, if you dont hear the intial dispatch regularly than are you regularly delaying response? YES. As you know, every minute counts, so you shoudl train yourself to listen and asorb the dispatch the first time, and if this is a dept wide problem for whatever department, then another method (alpa) needs to be availabe.

I get to hear the second part. But when people hear "WORKING FIRE" they get excited, there adrenaline pumps, and sometimes they do things without thinking. I'm not saying all people do this, but some do.

That's why myself and a lot of other dispatchers start with the address. That is the most important thing to listen for.

And you do that because SOME of the people who let the excitement get the best of them dont and wont listen to ANYTHING after the word "Fire" is said.

Also, you should NEVER EVER EVER do anything without thinking in this business, whether it's a water condition or a structure fire.

You need to think with a clear head, regardless of adreanline.

[x635 4,066]

BTW,, from past personal experience, I believe the 5-8 on a regular basisi thing is a bit of an exccaduration.

[Remember585 815]

Some thoughts on the subject.....

One County Fire Dispatch Frequency

One County EMS Dispatch Frequency

One Operations / Command Frequency per Battalion. (Unless in a larger, busier region)

Fireground Frequencies NEED TO BE USED!!! Even if multiple channels are used (interior, FAST, water supply, etc.) its better then jamming up the important communications!

ALL OF US, FIRE AND EMS, SHOULD BE DISPATCHED FROM THE SAME PLACE!!! TOO MANY DISPATCH CENTERS IN THE SAME SYSTEM PUTS PEOPLES LIVES AT RISK!!!!

[Guest Lieutenant6474]

46.26 should ONLY be used for dispatch and for apparatus to signal that they are responding. There should be 8 (I think that is a good number given the amount of incidents the county handles in a day) other channels that apparatus are assigned to as soon as they sign on. Example. Bedford Hills is toned to a wreck on the Saw Mill... It sounds like this. 60-Controll to BH. respond in the area of... for a... Then Rescue10 comes on 46.26 and says that they are 10-17... the response from 60-Control is "10-4 Rescue10 your fire channel is #3 at 1530hours." This way, no one gets stepped on, the county knows who is responding since there is no scene chatter about hitting hydrents or getting cribbing etc on 46.26 and there is a very effective method to organizing multiple incidents in the county at once.

As far as retones go... A company should get 3 chances maximum.. Dispatch, 2.5 minutes after dispatch and 5 minutes after dispatch... If no one is on the air confirming a response, then the dept. has "failed" on the call and the county should alert the next due. No if's and's or but's about it. 5 minutes or next due.

[Guest DFFD227]

yes, I agree with you. Making seperate channels for units with solve at least 80% of the Counties problems. As for being stepped on...I feel bad for 60 control dispatchers during a structure fire, there is always some kind of incomplete message due to someone stepping over someone, and when you have a structure fire, and firemens lifes are on the line, you need to hear EVERYTHING that is going on. You need to know what units are operating, what the chief wants to do Mutual Aid wise, if the dispatcher needs to send the C&O team etc...

[tbendick 27]

We all know that there is major problems with the way the radio systems work.. It seems that many dept's want to do things one way and not follow and sort of plan.

For example Many Depts have the UHF fireground radios in use to clear the lowband but then they put a pac/rt in the Engine. So now you have a UHF fireground that hears everthing thats goes on 46.260.

The other problems I hear is Depts sending tones at from thier firehouse. 60 Send the tones and then the first FF to get to the station sends tones out from the firehouse.

60-Control is the dispatcher let them to it. No body should be trying to dispatch from a firehouse unless there is a failure. It is important to have the ablity but to use it on a regular basis is something else.

[Oswegowind 17]

tbendick has a good point, if you are not getting paid to dispatch, don't dispatch...the dispatchers are trained to do just that, no one else should be sending out alarms from a firehouse, that is absurd...if you want to dispatch, take the test, and go for the job, until then just pay attention to the radio.