Danbury Consolidation

[Geppetto 31]

Danbury forms volunteer firehouse consolidation task force

By Dirk Perrefort

The News-Times

08/23/2009

DANBURY -- A new task force is starting to look at consolidating the city's six inner-city volunteer fire departments.

Mayor Mark Boughton said the task force is being led by Fire Chief Geoff Herald and will develop a plan for the future of the six companies.

"Danbury is blessed with an exemplary combination fire department," Boughton said. "The challenge we face is the inefficiency of the physical structures in which our six inner-city volunteer companies reside. We need to look to the future and plan for better, more efficient buildings."

While there have been informal discussions in the city for some time about joining the six departments under one roof -- with each maintaining a separate identity -- the idea has gained momentum in recent months....

http://www.newstimes.com/latestnews/ci_13176926

[FD828 77]

How do the volunteer companies operate? I mean are they all different departments or are they all the same department just different companies? Do they each have their own Chief or officers?

[dadbo46 50]

I beg you.......don't use the Stamford model !!!

[spin_the_wheel 460]

What apparatus do they operate, each company has an Engine and a first due area so to speak? Does a volunteer company get assigned to every alarm, or only on working fires? Interesting.

[CHIEFPHIL 90]

I think the DFD has been profiled a couple of times on this site... but here goes a quick response to your questions.

There are currently 12 volunteer componies in Danbury. Co's 3 thru 9 are single piece companies - 5 engines and 2 squads. Co's 10 thru 14 have a wide array of rigs from engine, tankers, brush trucks. In old terms when Danbury had two political divisions [city / town] there was a distinction of city co's [3-9] and town co's [10-14]. the town co's had chiefs the city oco's did not. The chief titles remain, but the career chiefs run the calls etc.

The volunteer co's are dispatched to most calls..boxes, afa, structures , carfires etc. I do not believe they respond to hazmat type calls, but report to their stations to cover. When there is a job, usually several co's are put on coverage. Usually 2 volunteer engines and a squad is assigned to afa's, structures etc. Single engine with a single career engine to minor alarms. Two volunteers carry hurst tools, so one of them is assigned to confirm tool jobs .

The volunteers have a wide variety of special eqipment, such as brush trucks and tankers. Engine 10 is a 55' telesquirt.

the consolidation has been talked about for years, but now it is taking a greater spotlight as many of the volunteer stations need lots of building upkeep. The other problem they have,is that the engines need 3 interior ff's to respond. Sometimes the vol's will get 2 ff per station , they cant respond. So by putting 2-3 or 4 companies in one building they most likely will be able cross staff to fully man an engine.

I think this is a good idea as it is goingto be able to pool the resources the city has.

[IzzyEng4 427]

I think its good being pro-active towards getting the city volunteer companies into a new building but having six engines and two air / squad trucks in one building doesn't really seem that great. Padanaram 3, Independent 4, Wooster 5, Phoenix 8 and Beckrle 9 all operate engines with Citizens 6 and Wooster 7 operate air squads. It would move all the companies to one are of the town where now the 6 are pretty much split between either side of the "downtown" area. I think one plan they were looking at was also to build two stations for housing two engine co and one squad. This might be better.

Having multiple volunteer companies in one house is kinda a "taboo" thing in CT compared to NY it seems. Hopefully something will be done to help these companies as most of them are in firehouses that are 75, 100 or 125 years old.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

The word I'm hearing is that the Chief would like the vollies in the current career Headquarters on New Street and to get a new HQ for the career staff, since alot of their apparatus gets stored outside due to lack of space. New Street is an 8-bay house I believe. The volunteer companies with multiple rigs and the ones that own their own quarters (a few do) are largely going to be left alone, but alot of the single-engine houses in the central area of the city are in city-owned buildings.

Housing Squad 6 and Squad 7 together? I'm not sure how I feel about that. Usually only one goes to a call, but as it stands now there is one on the Eastern side of town (Sq 7, near the hospital) and one near the Western (Sq 6, between downtown area and the mall) Putting them both in the same house would be kind of redundant. If the volunteers would work together more, they would be able to better staff rigs. Alot of times what ends up happening now is one station has 2 volunteers standing by and another has 2, whereas if they'd all respond to one house, they'd get a truck out damned near every time.

A lot of work is gonna be necessary for this to come out effectively. Glad its not my job.

Edited August 24, 2009 by SageVigiles

[Guest]

That is a lot of apparatus for a small city, especially one that is covered by a (as it stands now) mostly career department. Maybe by consolidating they can reduce the amount of rigs they have and stations they have and get apparatus out the door. Its a win-win, other than for some people's pride. Perhaps the volunteers could use this as a time to start to train more, become more organized, and become a more integral and used part of emergency response in Danbury.

[IzzyEng4 427]

Danbury has a lot of apparatus in general between all of the career and paid companies but at the same time they have a very large ares to cover as well, some areas very congested while others are spread out quite far. PLus add in all the hazards that are in that town.

I remember someone telling me years back who used to be a volunteer in Danbury that there was something in the city / town charter that the volunteer companies could not be disbanded unless it was by thier own accord. I have no clue if this is true or not though but it might stem back to the days when the downtown area was a separate borough from the town, before the city charter was approve to combine the two entities.

I hope they work something out since a lot of those companies are among the oldest in the state.

[FD828 77]

It sounds like if they were to move all the volunteer companies to one or two stations, some of the company "names" would cease to exist. But like others have said, they would increase the numbers of volunteers for one or two larger companies and get the machines out the door. It is a strange concept for me... lots of different companies all seem to be independent of the other. Where I volunteer we have 2 stations, all members respond and ride out on whatever machine is going... brush truck, rescue, engine..etc. I think that being that there isn't a Chief for each company, consolidating might be not be soo hard.

[helicopper 1,050]

I have a question...

I'm a volunteer member of the Danbury FD and assigned to Squad 7. A call comes in when I'm at the mall and only a few minutes from Squad 6. Under the current structure can I respond to and help staff Squad 6 or am I only a member of the company to which I'm assigned?

[spin_the_wheel 460]

In Lancaster County PA. Columbia Boro had 5 separate fire companies protecting the area. Not uncommon for many older east coast volunteer areas, there were 5 stations, some very close to one another, 3 of those companies formed...Columbia Consolidated Fire Company. On the new companies maltese cross logo all 3 names of the original individual companies are represented. It's possible to not loose your individual identities altogether. So you could have Danbury consolidated Fire company #1 consisting of 2 or 3 companies...consolidated fire company #2 with another 2 or 3....you get the point. Anything can be done as long as the companies are willing to accept change, which is the hardest part about these things. I am all for tradition and keeping things that work the way they are, but if it is a matter of not existing at all or not giving the service you are suppose to be giving, then it's better to make change on your terms rather then have it forced on you by someone else.

Edited August 25, 2009 by spin_the_wheel

[SageVigiles 1,194]

I have a question...

I'm a volunteer member of the Danbury FD and assigned to Squad 7. A call comes in when I'm at the mall and only a few minutes from Squad 6. Under the current structure can I respond to and help staff Squad 6 or am I only a member of the company to which I'm assigned?

I believe you can, if you have permission from the Captain of 6 Squad.

[Guest]

I'm a volunteer at Beckerle Hose Engine 9 in Danbury. We are not included in the consolidation because are the only "city" company to own our firehouse. All the "town" companies also own their firehouses. I think that Consolidation is a good idea, all the companies have problems getting out and it would only help in the long run. I've tried to talk to the membership about consolidating with the rest of volunteers, but I'm out numbered. Most of the older members are afraid of losing the companies identity. I think we are shooting ourselves in the foot. To answer Chris192 question about responding to other companies. Each company has it's own rules about letting other members respond, for example in my company you have to come down to drill nights and learn our rig, and be cleared to respond.

[FFPCogs 863]

Interesting comments so far on what is sure to be a "charged" issue. Since some here have cited Danbury as a possible model for our situation I'm sure many will be awaiting an outcome. I know I will.

I just have to throw out here that I completely agree with "Spin" on this in that it is far better to work towards change on your own terms than have it forced down your throat. If nothing else that is a good lesson for all.

Cogs

[BMeehan282 8]

I'll break it down for everyone to clear some things up.

When it comes to the fire service, Danbury is a little different from most place, it's a mix of modern firefighting with a very old, fairly obsolete, traditional set up.

The career division mans 5 stations with 6 engines (3 guys each), and 1 Truck (4 guys), a heavy rescue (cross manned), the 911/PSAP (2 FF's), and the Shift Commander (1 guy). EMS, while technicially under the City, is really run by the hospital. They staff 3 ambs during the day, 2 in the eve, and one from 3a-7a, plus two medic supervisor/fly cars. The FD provides First Responder/Rescue also, 7 career pieces have Hurst tool equipment.. Additionally, the career staff maintains in their inventory a bunch of other goodies; a zodiac boat, Regional HazMat Truck, Decon Trailer/Prime Mover truck, Regional Foam Trailer, John Deere Gator, a couple of equipment trailers, the DPH Mobile Field Hosp (i think 8 trailers), as well as a small ARFF truck at the airport. I work there and cant even tell you all the things we have, it changes all the time.The career staff has a fire training center with a Class A live burn building, that out of towners can use as well.

There are 120 Career firefighters.

The Volunteer Division has twelve, yes 12, independent fire companies operating out of twelve, yes 12 stations! (You did the math right, counting the ARFF, there are 18 buildings in Danbury that serve as fire stations).

The 12 volunteer companies operate 9 Engines (1 telesqurt), 2 Air/Lighting 'Squads' (6&7), 6 Tankers, 4 mini's/brush trucks, a fire police truck, a canteen van, and one or two other things here and there. Two of the volunteer houses (10 & 13) have Hurst tool systems.

There are about 100 interior qualified volunteer firefighters. That number fluctuates somewhat because of training qualifications, but its around a 100 - between all twelve companies.

The career staff provides most of the initial and continuing training for the volunteer division. The career staff does the Firefighter 1, Quarterly Training, Live Burns, Hazmat, Bloodborne and ICS for the volunteer staff. There are some volunteer instructors and they do assist. Years ago there were career/vollie issues, from my vantage point I would say there are extremely few and far in between these days. We have more career/career and volunteer/volunteer issues now. I have really not seen any operational issues between the volunteers and career in years.

Career Staffing consists of Chief/Deputy Chief, who are 40 hour types, the Training Officer who is in charge of ALL training, and the EMS/Hazmat Officer who conducts that training. The on duty Platoon consists of ONE Asst Chief/Shift Commander who is in charge of ALL Tactical Operations in the city day-to day. There is then a Captain (me), six Lieutenants, and then the firefighters. The Training Officer, or an Off Duty Asst Chief/Captain usually operates as Safety Officer. While the volunteer companies have their own officers, they are not in the chain of command. A career firefighter would 'outrank' a volunteer chief, however that never becomes an issue. The volunteer companies show up at a call, their officer reports to command, and they are assigned a task. It works just fine.

The career companies respond to all calls. Volunteer companies are dispatched to almost all fire-type calls, however because of their individualized (therefore inefficient) staffing, they typically only respond to serious, lengthy calls, storm situations, or coverage when the career companies are tied up. They are typically very helpful when they are needed, and in reality they function as our own 'mutual aid'. When things get out of hand in the city and the career staff gets overwhelmed, the volunteer staff responds and helps out. Historically Danbury almost never calls for mutual aid other than ambulances. We have used mutual aid, and get along with our neighbors well, however when you have more than two dozen fire trucks, 25 career guys, and up to 100 qualified volunteers, you dont need outside help that often.

The City of Danbury owns the firehouses of Companies 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8. For the most part, they are very old hose houses that are functionally obsolete. Some are over a 100 years old and are just not suited to house modern fire trucks or firefighters. They cost a fortune to heat and maintain, and are well beyond their useful lifespan.

The City is looking to consolidate those companies (3 thru 8). By name they are: Padanaram Hose (3), Independent Hose (4), Wooster Hose (5), Citizens Hose (6), Water Witch Hose (7), and Phoenix Hose (8).

Consolidating would accomplish two things. First, getting rid of six dilapidated buildings would save operational costs. Secondly, consolidation would make the operation of those 6 fire companies far more efficient and effective. Currently, a volunteer engine must have 3 FF's to respond. What happens in reality is, when there is a call, there is one FF at 3's, two at 5's, and maybe 1 at 8's. None of them can respond. If they were all consolidated, those 'four' FF's would go to ONE house and respond on ONE Engine, they would then be used far more than they are currently. The next three FF's would maybe take the next Engine, and so on. Running two "squads" out of one building would be fine also, alternating months with one or the other would work. There are plenty of second calls for the second squad to go to. Reality would suggest that we dont have too many instances of two working fires at the same time, so one squad at a time would be fine. I envision a time in the near future where the only thing that might be different about the various volunteer firefighters would be their helmet shield which would just say "Wooster Hose" or whatever, but they would all work together harmoniously as Danbury Volunteers.

The one "idea" that is being tossed around is to build a new career Fire Headquarters, there is a lot next door to the current one (and NO not where the building burned down!), and place the volunteer companies in the "old HQ" which actually has 5, drive thru bays.

It should get pretty interesting.

bernie

[IzzyEng4 427]

Thanks BMeehan282 for the information.

Spin the wheel, the volunteers wouldn't loose their "independent identities" if they consolidated into one house or two houses, ect. Each company has its own charter of incorporation through the Connecticut State Legislature. By what I have been reading, and Danbury guys and gals please correct me if I am misunderstanding, they are looking to just house the separate companies in a single building. The only way they would lose being "Wooster Hose" or Water Witch" is if the membership of the companies say hey lets merge together to create one fire company like Columbia Consolidated did. There are departments that have multiple volunteer fire companies in the same building, Look at Bay Shore, LI. BSFD has Hose 1, Engine 1, Fire Patrol, Hook & Ladder, and Penataquit Hose together through their three buildings (I forget how the break up is between the stations).

Also cross staffing between the companies to help them get out quicker would be a good thing. Again I hope that Danbury's firefighters move forward and the plans when they are iron out are adopted.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

For those of you who don't know Danbury well, when the guys refer to the "town" companies they mean the outlying companies away from the Downtown area, most of which are multi-rig companies. The following Danbury volunteer stations have multiple rigs. These are all the ones I remember, but like the Captain said, Danbury has a lot of trucks, its hard to remember them all. These stations, if I'm understanding correctly, will NOT be part of the consolidation effort, as they own their own stations and are big houses.

Germantown Company 10: Telesquirt, Pumper Tanker, Mini-Rescue

Miry Brook: I honestly have no idea what these guys run, other than the canteen truck and the Fire Police rig

Beaver Brook: Engine and tanker I believe

Mill Plain Company 12: 2 Engines, Suburban, Tanker

King Street Company 14: 2 Tankers, 1 Brush Truck (I'm 90% certain King Street actually owns the building where career engine 25 is housed, if I remember correctly, the city actually pays them rent, but Capt. Meehan would know better than I)

Knowing alot of the Danbury Volunteers, I would have to say what Captain Meehan said about the volunteers and career guys getting along is fairly accurate. Especially recently, everything I've heard from my buddies in Danbury is that the volunteers and career guys get along well and work efficiently. There is no power struggle because everyone knows there job and just does it.

[spin_the_wheel 460]

Thanks BMeehan282 for the information.

Spin the wheel, the volunteers wouldn't loose their "independent identities" if they consolidated into one house or two houses, ect. Each company has its own charter of incorporation through the Connecticut State Legislature. By what I have been reading, and Danbury guys and gals please correct me if I am misunderstanding, they are looking to just house the separate companies in a single building. The only way they would lose being "Wooster Hose" or Water Witch" is if the membership of the companies say hey lets merge together to create one fire company like Columbia Consolidated did. There are departments that have multiple volunteer fire companies in the same building, Look at Bay Shore, LI. BSFD has Hose 1, Engine 1, Fire Patrol, Hook & Ladder, and Penataquit Hose together through their three buildings (I forget how the break up is between the stations).

Also cross staffing between the companies to help them get out quicker would be a good thing. Again I hope that Danbury's firefighters move forward and the plans when they are iron out are adopted.

Your right Izzy, there are many volunteer houses all over with multiple companies, Hudson NY is another one that put 3 or 4 houses into 1, and each company kept there name. I was just giving an example of how they could keep the names if you eliminate apparatus from those companies. If companies 3-8 combine I dont think you would need 6 Engines in the new house. Hell you could even put 3 company names on one rig, again anything can be done as long as everyone wants to do it.

Edited August 25, 2009 by spin_the_wheel

[BMeehan282 8]

For those of you who don't know Danbury well, when the guys refer to the "town" companies they mean the outlying companies away from the Downtown area, most of which are multi-rig companies. The following Danbury volunteer stations have multiple rigs. These are all the ones I remember, but like the Captain said, Danbury has a lot of trucks, its hard to remember them all. These stations, if I'm understanding correctly, will NOT be part of the consolidation effort, as they own their own stations and are big houses.

Germantown Company 10: Telesquirt, Pumper Tanker, Mini-Rescue

Miry Brook: I honestly have no idea what these guys run, other than the canteen truck and the Fire Police rig

Beaver Brook: Engine and tanker I believe

Mill Plain Company 12: 2 Engines, Suburban, Tanker

King Street Company 14: 2 Tankers, 1 Brush Truck (I'm 90% certain King Street actually owns the building where career engine 25 is housed, if I remember correctly, the city actually pays them rent, but Capt. Meehan would know better than I)

Knowing alot of the Danbury Volunteers, I would have to say what Captain Meehan said about the volunteers and career guys getting along is fairly accurate. Especially recently, everything I've heard from my buddies in Danbury is that the volunteers and career guys get along well and work efficiently. There is no power struggle because everyone knows there job and just does it.

You're on the money!

Miry Brook has a Class A Pumper, a 1991 Marion/Spartan "Engine 13". A tanker, A 1978 Dodge/E-1 mini that was formerly Sandy Hooks, an ancient Ford/Redding Utility (1970's) that was a rescue truck used at the old race track which is a Fire Police wagon now, and the Canteen step van which is run by the ladies auxillary.

Mill Plain has a Class A pumper which is a 1986 Ward 79, i think they are replacing it. A Big As* Kenworth Pumper Tanker (you've all seen it at parades), a brush truck and a older suburban they got from Brewster. Mill Plain is affectionately also known as Brewster (NY) Station 3, as they provide mutual aid to Brewster.

King Street Vol. Fire Company (located at 171 SOUTH King St.) does indeed own the building that houses both the KSVFD # 14, and Career Engine 25. Eng 25s side of the building was extensively rebuilt 3 years ago and is completely separate from the volunteers. King Street VFD has Two Tankers, and a brush truck. They no longer have a pumper.

Yes, there are very, very few (if any) issues between volunteer and career these days. I would liken that to a few things. First, since we train the volunteers they get to know who we are. Many of the classes are held at HQ and the volunteers come to class, or come down and visit, there are really no problems there. In the past three years we have hired about 50 new guys. That's half of the department! Of those 50, I would say 48 of them were volunteers somewhere, so they get the whole volunteer thing. Many of our members are volunteer EMTs, or work for various EMS outfits, and now that the law changed, some are even openly volunteering in their own home towns. As stated before, when we have a big fire, or a big storm, or something that requires extra guys and extra companies, the volunteers respond, come to the command post, ask where they are needed and jump right in. I might be stepping outside the "paid guy attitude" a shade, but to turn away 'free help' when there's a big incident would be pretty stupid. There has been alot of turnover in both the career and 'active' volunteer ranks over the past couple of years and we all work together fairly well.

The town companies have even organized themselves into a Tanker Task Force now. When we have a large fire in the non-hydrant districts, we activate the "all call" tone and ask for the tanker task force and all six tankers respond. Moving water is one thing that the volunteer division does extremely well, and they have been involved in a number of tanker shuttles beyond the city limits as well. The town companies are NOT part of the consolidation effort. Beckerle Hose and Company # 9 is not part of the consolidation effort either. They own their own firehouse, having evolved from a fire brigade at a large hat factory many years ago.

There are some pictures and info on our webpage - www.ci.danbury.ct.us/firedept

[TSull 33]

Very well said and thought out. The difference here compared against the other situation is it seems that people are actually trying to come up with a solution and not just dismissing the consolidation idea. When I joined Mill Plain VFD in 1991, I received a letter from the Chief of the DFD welcoming me to the volunteer section of the DFD. Over the years I have watched as the relationship between the career dept and the vollies has ebbed and flowed. I have posted on the Stamford merger thread that the Danbury set up should be looked at and considered. In my position as training officer of my current volunteer dept, I have had nothing but great dealings with the DFD training officer and CoD as we have used the Danbury training center on multiple occasions to conduct live burns. DFD provides the training center and a safety liason from the career dept and we don't have to travel as far to train.

What is amazing is the amount of equipment that is in Danbury. By specializing in a particular area (Tankers, Lightin/air) the volunteers have ensured their relevancy in the whole response matrix. Consolidation of the inner city companies may hurt some feelings, but getting out the door and being able to make a positive impact at a call is a lot better then being told to "Do not respond" over and over due to lack of manpower.

I hope the situation works out for all involved