Difference between satellite unit/engine co?

[gpdexplorer 46]

What is the difference between an engine co. and a satellite unit?

[Guest FDNY242Buff]

The major difference between an Engine and Sattelite is the sattelite has no pump. It is supplied by the engine it runs with and is pretty much a hosewagon.

FDNY is going to be getting new sattelites made by Ferrara on MACK MR cabs for sattelites 2-6.

[E64PCFD2044 1]

When will they be in service?

[Guest WolfEMT]

Now is a satellite/hose wagon the same thing as a "maxi-water unit"?

[Guest]

No, Maxi-water units are different. As I understand it, the Satallite Units are left over from the days of the FDNY Super Pumper. THe satallites would go to the location of the Super Pumper and back stretch to hydrants. Now it is just that, a hose cart/large deck gun/foam storage, as a second piece to the company it is housed with.

[JBE 328]

OK, the present Satellite Water System is the evolution of the Maxi-Water System, which was what evolved from the Super Pumper System of days of yore. Before the Satellite Water System was developed in 1998, a Satellite would respond with its associated Engine company upon transmission of a 2nd Alarm anywhere in the city, except in SI and the area covered by Jamaica Water Supply in Queens, then it would respond on the all hands. E-72 would respond on 10-75's in Riverdale(Generally anything west of Broadway and north of West 230 Street).

Upon Transmission of the 3rd Alarm, Engine 207 w/Maxi Water would respond, along with another Satellite and its associated engine.(Total of 3) The officer of 207 would advise the dispatcher where the hook up site would be and they would take it from there. The officer of 207 would be designated as water resource officer.

In 1998, the Satellite Water System came into being. The Maxi Water Unit was re-designated Satellite 6. All six rigs are identical. They are hose wagons with a large diameter deck gun, they carry a manifold and X amount of LDH. Along with a few foam cans, proportioner, etc. E-159/Sat-5 respond still on all hands in SI, E-72/Sat-2 repond to certain street boxes, and on 10-75's in Riverdale. E-324/Sat-4 no longer respond on All Hands in the JWS area. The satellites are not equipped with a pump, however, the associated engine is a 2000 GPM pumper. I was just walking past 207 today and 6 plus years later, Sat-6 is still marked as the Maxi Water Unit. Hope this helps.

As far as when the new Satellite for Sat-2 thru 6 will be delivered, I have no clue. One other thing, certain Satellites must be covered in times of high fire activity. I think it's 2 and 4 must be covered. I'll look in the books tomorrow at HQ.

[Guest]

JBE, you are truly a fountain of knowledge! We're lucky to have you in Bravo (seriously!!) =D>

[JBE 328]

Please, I don't know half as much as I should. A certain former supervising dispatcher once called me a fountain of useless knowledge. Probably one of the reasons why she's back dispatching again and I'm the one running the tour. Boy, did that sound arrogant. :-P

Like I said, I'm still learning and I am always happy to pass on what I have learned. When it comes to certain stuff, If I can answer it, I will, if not I will do my best to get that answer for you.

[Guest WolfEMT]

Thanks for clearing that up, it really helps. And you are a fountain of knowledge...don't sell yourself short.

[Pudge3311 5]

Heres a question, why not just give the satellite's a bigger rig, maybe a dual rear axle engine, with its 2000 gpm pump and a bigger hose bed for the extra hose? Making the rig a little longer would allow you to keep all the tools and equipment that is already carried by the regular engine, as well as the extra hose. That means one less rig that is responding to a call, one less rig to get in the way at the call, and would most likely result in money saved by not having to maintain a second piece. Has there been any thought or consideration on that?

[E64PCFD2044 1]

That's an awsome idea Pudge, but I think that something that large wouldn't fit in the firehouse, let alone the streets of NYC... That would be such a cool thing to see but I don't think it would happen.

[gpdexplorer 46]

Thanks for all of the info guys!! You guys are great. =D>

[Pudge3311 5]

E64,

Why wouldnt it fit in the house? The house already has two rigs in it, doesnt it? Understandable that there might have to be a little remodeling done if these rigs are parked side by side, but im sure in the long run it will still cost less money. As for it fitting on the streets, if you added 10 ft to it, it would still probably be as small if not smaller than any of the ladders that operate on those same streets wouldnt it? So there shouldnt be any problems there.

[tbendick 27]

The way the Sat's work is with the two units it's done this way for a reason.

The 2000gpm Engine will go setup at a hydrant (Note that there are special "Red" hydrants around the city) and hook up and obtain a water supply. The Sat rig will then conect to the Engine and lay 5" LDH to the incident. This LDH could supply the manifold or the large deck gun.

[Pudge3311 5]

If the Sat rig is just carrying hose, why does it have to be so big then, why not use a smaller vehicle instead of another rig that is just as big? Is there a particular reason that the rig needs to be just as big as the engine?

[E64PCFD2044 1]

I think maybe using a Ford F-550 crew cab dually or something like that with a special body on the back to fit all of the hose would be a good idea.

[JBE 328]

If the Sat rig is just carrying hose, why does it have to be so big then, why not use a smaller vehicle instead of another rig that is just as big?  Is there a particular reason that the rig needs to be just as big as the engine?

Look at it this way, they have a rather big deck gun on board. 2000 gpm at X amount of pressure is coming out of it. I have seen film of a Satellite in operation, and they have taken walls out. They need something a little bigger than a pickup with a crew cab. Aside from the hose, they are also carrying a manifold, foam operation equipment and other assorted goodies that may not be able to fit in a smaller piece of apparatus.

[gpdexplorer 46]

Here are the links to see pics of the Sat Units

SAT 1 - http://www.fdnytrucks.com/files/html/manhattan/e9.htm

SAT 2 - http://www.fdnytrucks.com/files/html/bronx/e72.htm

SAT 3 - http://www.fdnytrucks.com/files/html/brooklyn/e284.htm

SAT 4 - http://www.fdnytrucks.com/files/html/queens/e324.htm

SAT 5 - http://www.fdnytrucks.com/files/html/state...island/e159.htm

Just scroll down.

[Shantz02 0]

Exactly how much hose and of what diameter does each satellite unit carry? And does anyone know why the FDNY chose that model Mack for them?

[tbendick 27]

The carry some place around 2500' of 5" LDH.

Unknown why the Mack, but it only needs to carry two people.

Also as far as the size goes they carry a lot more then just hose.

Here are a few photos:

Rear of Sat-2

MPO at the pump of Engine 72

[JBE 328]

Understood ALS, but, can a pick up carry all the other extra equipment??? Most of the time, the deck gun doesn't get used, but the LDH and manifold, and foam gear does.

Ever hear the saying, "We may not need it, but it's nice to have" ???

As for the pick up, LA County has deluge units that are nothing more than pick up trucks with a larger than normal deck gun built up where the bed should be. Doesn't appear that they have any LDH on board.

The Satellites are big rigs, and they have more than just the deck gun. It's that multi purpose stuff that IMHO keeps them relevant.

FYI, Brooklyn had a 3rd alarm this morning and they put that manifold and LDH off Satellite 3 to work.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

JBE: That was meant as a total joke based on irony. LOL. You took that way to serious brother...lol.

[Pudge3311 5]

JBE,

How often are the satellites called and when they are called, how often are they actually put to work? If they arent used all that often, them maybe the city would be better off reducing their number and just staff two of them for the entire city, then they would always be available?

[JBE 328]

They respond on certain street boxes and in certain areas where water supply is limited, such as the Navy Yard in Brooklyn,certain bridge boxes on the Brooklyn and Manhattan Bridges that are short on standpipes, or the Terminal Market and Hunts Point in the Bronx. Any 10-75 above W 230 and West of B'way. They can be special called by an IC if there is a water problem or there's a large area of brush going in a remote area, like the pix TB took. An all hands or greater in SI, any Foam operation, if a Marine company is operating at a land based fire, and then any multiples in the city.

As for the idea of shutting one or two down, nope. Simply because of the possibility of having numerous simultaneous multiples going and the need to get copious(or MAXI-mum) water on to a burning structure. Granted, it's a rare occurence, but it does happen. They are staffed by the engine that they are quartered with. If you ever get a chance to look at the assignment cards, look at the engines they are quartered with, they do not respond beyond third due to anything.

This goes back to the old toybox analogy, it's always nice to have the toys in the toybox to take out when you want to play with them, and put them back when you're done.

Side note, Department policy, if the Satellite and associated Engine company are not 10-84 on the Probably will Hold, they are returned. No questions asked.

My apologies on the seriousness, it's been a long day dealing with the probies.

[Shantz02 0]

dealing with probies or not, the seriousness is absolutely warrented in my opinion. there are reasons to have these rigs, and certain SOGs for them. im sure i speak for most when i say that a lot of info has been provided for us regrading these apparatus. Now, i think we are just trying to feel around for possible alternative solutions.

Thanks to JBE and all others who have provided information on how the Sats opperate. the toy box idea fits perfect. If youve got it to use, then use it. if you dont need it, then put it away. It sure beats tring to find 2 or 3 other engines to get the LDH necessary to reach hydrants.