Multiple Tone Outs For North Western Westchester EMS

[Guest problEMS]

Does anyone have their scanner on and hear what is going on up in the north west part of the county. So far it sounds like Mohegan, Yorktown, Peekskill...I feel for the Medic and FD that have to stand there and wait for an ambulance to show and transport.

[Guest problEMS]

As I posted that they added Croton to party...this just keeps getting better and better

[Mofire24 27]

If you are that conserned about it instead of complaining here how about you join one of those agencies and become a solution to the problem and cover some of the calls

[Guest problEMS]

If you are that conserned about it instead of complaining here how about you join one of those agencies and become a solution to the problem and cover some of the calls

Well I am that conCerned(correct spelling)...and the EMS agency that covers my hometown has problems of its own as well, I was commenting on a serious issue that is present in Westchester's emergency services, and making light(a joke) about a current situation at the same time. The practice of having medic units on a call baby sitting a patient that could possibly not need them and then having to complete the transport on top of that is absolutly ridiculous and a misuse of the service....That was the point of the comment

[Mofire24 27]

Like I said instead of making stupid jokes you become a solution to the problem or assist in correcting it

[Goose 188]

Like I said instead of making stupid jokes you become a solution to the problem or assist in correcting it

Actually, i applaud him for shoving this issue in everyone's face. Joining the VAC isn't going to solve the problem, i would argue that's a silly assertion. The culture and system are broken. We all know it, the county knows it but apparently no one can or cares to change it.

Edited July 27, 2009 by Goose

[x129K 1,393]

IMO, the days of fly car medics are over! Give that medic a bus and a partner.....guarentee they don't sit on scene anymore awaiting a vollie transport unit.

[Goose 188]

IMO, the days of fly car medics are over! Give that medic a bus and a partner.....guarentee they don't sit on scene anymore awaiting a vollie transport unit.

Not only would that make sense...but it would tweak the volunteers (who would in turn call up everyone they know, come out 300 deep and complain to all the residents [who are already ignorant to the lax service they get], hit the usual talking points about how they care so much and do it for free, and they will stay in business...happens any time ANYONE questions a volunteer agency) and it will cost money...so forget it. Not going to happen.

Like i said, no one wants to admit they have a problem and that in and of itself is counterintuitive to all that is EMS - we are there because we care and want to help people...but only on our time? Come on. It's not like it hasn't been done before...there a number of primarily volunteer agencies that are hiring day-time crews to cover calls when membership can't....and it doesn't rip a hole in the time space continuum! How about that?!

Edited July 27, 2009 by Goose

[JFLYNN 681]

If you are that conserned about it instead of complaining here how about you join one of those agencies and become a solution to the problem and cover some of the calls

This reply is what I refer to as "blame shifting" or "attack defense"...there is a real problem in Northern Westchester with EMS and the poster correctly pointed that out. IMO people die and suffer needlessly because completely inadequate volunteer ambulance corps refuse to regionalize / consolidate / allow a career service, or have real accountability. Maybe if those of us in the know keep pointing this out things will change eventually...so, many of us are "concerned about it", and we do want to "become a solution to the problem"...we just realize that the solution os not to "join one of those agencies and cover some of the calls"...to do that would be to become part of the problem, not to solve it.

[MJP399 4]

I believe the problem is everywhere, not only the volunteer system. As I am an EMT at work, so I do get paid to be an EMT, and we are not a transport agency. The other day I had to "babysit" a patient for 20 minutes with a dislocated shoulder, as we waited for a paid agency.

With call volume up everywhere, I think it is easy to look at Northern Westchester which is predominately a volunteer region and blame the vollies. It is an easy way out, to discredit many volunteer agencies, that do make calls on the first tone, or that do cover their calls.

Do we examine the paid guys, no. Are we wrong that we don't sit by the scanner and listen to every dispatch to try and dig up some dirt? If we are so secure about how great the paid system is, can we discuss the issues there? Cause time was an issue in my case. Or how about the other day, while riding the train, a fellow passenger had an issue, I stated I was an emt, this issue did need more medical attention, and when we got to GCT we also waited 10-20 minutes for an ambulance so that I could properly transfer care.

I think it is time to stop taking shots on the vollies, stop taking it personal when a vollie has a point to say, cause guess what, I am not looking to ruin your job, nor take your job away from you. You all do a great job and deserve everything you do. But lets examine the whole situation, not just the vollies.

Calls are up everywhere, for both fire and ems, and it is taking a toll on both paid and vollie, lets work together as both sides have these issues.

Edited July 27, 2009 by MJP399

[20y2 43]

IMO, the days of fly car medics are over! Give that medic a bus and a partner.....guarentee they don't sit on scene anymore awaiting a vollie transport unit.

AMEN!

[jack10562 414]

If this is the type of response trend we're likely to see continuing in what is mostly considered an affluent area, can you imagine what it must be like in a poor, or rural "upstate" area?

[rickperry99 8]

I think the entire system nationwide has multiple problems. Volunteer or paid EMS have their own unique problems Could any of you immagine a commercial for profit company running the fire or police service? Why is EMS different? It shouldn't be. People have to work more these days just to get by, and the state comes up with new requirements for EMS providers all the time that take time and cost more. I don't have the answer, but complaining about the Volunteers doesn't help. I have had the pleasure of working with some VAC's and I applaud them. They spend a lot of their free time away from their families going to calls, training, etc..

[x129K 1,393]

If this is the type of response trend we're likely to see continuing in what is mostly considered an affluent area, can you imagine what it must be like in a poor, or rural "upstate" area?

I never could undertsand why the crapiest city's where "no one " works or pays taxes, live in goverment subsidized housing, and collects from the hard working people of this country seem to get the "best" in protection? Career fireman, cops, and paramedics.......

While nearby, people who work 2 jobs to afford a small run down house on a speck of land are "protected" by departments who may or may not get out, BLS ambulances, and State or County police who are stetched too thin ?

[Mofire24 27]

Goose

I do have to say if everyone instead of sitting home buffing out with a scanner and having a certification join one of the ems agencies could cover some of the calls instead of saying on here did you hear those agencies and the give aways. The EMS System in a whole is in trouble I do agree but if everyone contributed to covering a call instead of contributing their 2 cents we might get stuff done.

[helicopper 1,050]

I believe the problem is everywhere, not only the volunteer system. As I am an EMT at work, so I do get paid to be an EMT, and we are not a transport agency. The other day I had to "babysit" a patient for 20 minutes with a dislocated shoulder, as we waited for a paid agency.

With call volume up everywhere, I think it is easy to look at Northern Westchester which is predominately a volunteer region and blame the vollies. It is an easy way out, to discredit many volunteer agencies, that do make calls on the first tone, or that do cover their calls.

Do we examine the paid guys, no. Are we wrong that we don't sit by the scanner and listen to every dispatch to try and dig up some dirt? If we are so secure about how great the paid system is, can we discuss the issues there? Cause time was an issue in my case. Or how about the other day, while riding the train, a fellow passenger had an issue, I stated I was an emt, this issue did need more medical attention, and when we got to GCT we also waited 10-20 minutes for an ambulance so that I could properly transfer care.

I think it is time to stop taking shots on the vollies, stop taking it personal when a vollie has a point to say, cause guess what, I am not looking to ruin your job, nor take your job away from you. You all do a great job and deserve everything you do. But lets examine the whole situation, not just the vollies.

Calls are up everywhere, for both fire and ems, and it is taking a toll on both paid and vollie, lets work together as both sides have these issues.

True, there are problems in EMS regardless of the system structure but there are fundamental differences in the problems between volunteer and paid services. In the volunteer sector, and the main point of this thread, the issue is that there are volunteer agencies who can not staff the first rig for the first call and that is the problem. Compounding that is the fact the first (and even subsequent) mutual aid agencies can't respond either causing the job to go several agencies deep with no people severely delaying a response!

Commercial or other paid agencies aren't having a problem staffing their units, their problem is primarily not having enough units to meet the volume. Different problem. To really complicate this, how much of the increased volume paid agencies are dealing with is mutual aid to volunteers that can't field a crew?

Sure, we can discuss your points but it is probably not the same solution for volunteer and paid problems.

Nobody here is bashing volunteers. They are merely highlighting problems and throwing the topic out for discussion.

[firefighter36 52]

Calls are up everywhere, for both fire and ems, and it is taking a toll on both paid and vollie, lets work together as both sides have these issues.

You're right, and what steps are fire commissioners, VAC/EMS Boards of Directors, as well as the "customers" (taxpayers/residents) who receive or may utilize these services doing to ensure that responders, no matter what discipline, no matter their status of career or volunteer are equipped and staffed to respond to any emergency that may occur within their jurisdiction in a timely manner?

I never could undertsand why the crapiest city's where "no one " works or pays taxes, live in goverment subsidized housing, and collects from the hard working people of this country seem to get the "best" in protection? Career fireman, cops, and paramedics.......

While nearby, people who work 2 jobs to afford a small run down house on a speck of land are "protected" by departments who may or may not get out, BLS ambulances, and State or County police who are stetched too thin ?

Your question us absolutely valid Dan, and I would assert that the crappy cities are partially funded by county sales tax money. Basically, the sales tax collected by the county is used to subsidize services in cities located within that county. We all have seen how well our nation's economic stimulus plans have worked, but that is another conversation for another day.

As for the overall issue, the private ambulance business model that we see in most areas does not work well. Many VACs are basically private ambulance services with volunteer members, rather than paid employees. Commercial EMS billing the governmental authority for services below cost and trying to re-coup your anticipated loss on paper through billing medical insurance is simply not a sound business option. Until 911 EMS is provided as a municipal service, rather than a public-subsidized private venture, we will never see an improvement in response times. You wouldn't see Donald Trump or Steve Forbes running their businesses like that. Not to mention, Amtrak is a public-private venture, and when did they ever make a profit?

Edited July 27, 2009 by mbendel36

[helicopper 1,050]

I think the entire system nationwide has multiple problems. Volunteer or paid EMS have their own unique problems Could any of you immagine a commercial for profit company running the fire or police service? Why is EMS different? It shouldn't be. People have to work more these days just to get by, and the state comes up with new requirements for EMS providers all the time that take time and cost more. I don't have the answer, but complaining about the Volunteers doesn't help. I have had the pleasure of working with some VAC's and I applaud them. They spend a lot of their free time away from their families going to calls, training, etc..

I too applaud the ones that train and respond to their calls but I don't applaud the ones who can't get out the door and think relying on mutual aid "because we're volunteers" is OK.

Complaining about the problem is only the first step in solving it. I don't believe that people here are complaining for the sake of complaining but would really like to see conditions improve and are seeking ideas and support to do it.

[PCFD ENG58 1,085]

I think the entire system nationwide has multiple problems. Volunteer or paid EMS have their own unique problems Could any of you immagine a commercial for profit company running the fire or police service? Why is EMS different? It shouldn't be. People have to work more these days just to get by, and the state comes up with new requirements for EMS providers all the time that take time and cost more. I don't have the answer, but complaining about the Volunteers doesn't help. I have had the pleasure of working with some VAC's and I applaud them. They spend a lot of their free time away from their families going to calls, training, etc..

WE DID it is called Rural Metro, one less house in Rye Brook!!!!!!!!!!

[MJP399 4]

Chris and others very nice replies, and enjoy constructive criticism, as it educates us as a whole.

So hopefully, can we do as not to have people take it personally, have a discussion, on some things that need to change. How to improve the volunteer service so that individuals do not lose their agencies but also provide the timely service and care that the residents and citizens need?

I for one would love to see a great discussion, as there are places where vac's can be used and their is also a need for paid agencies. I understand that, hopefully we all can as well.

So what can we do to improve? I know there are a lot of senior guys out there, that definitely have more experience and I would appreciate hearing their opinions as to learn.

Recently a lot of people are facing struggles with work, sometimes working 2 or more jobs and are not able to make the commitment as they previously had, I believe this may be the biggest case for the burnout in the vollie department. However, with the economy improving this may only be for another year or two while people get back on their feet. Is this too long to wait? Or should their be daytime Paid EMS, as not to loose volunteer status in the town.

I am looking forward to some good replies that can benefit as all as a whole.

[Goose 188]

The long-term, progressive, solution is to go with a fully career third service across the county. Because, in all honesty, while this problem may be far more frequent in northern westchester it happens county wide.

The fact is the only run numbers that are ever going to go up (aside from PD - their numbers are always tend to be higher) are EMS runs. In the next decade the demand on EMS is going to be enormous. We are seeing a paradigm shift of sorts - EMS is starting to provide more and more chronic care and dealing with less and less true emergencies. I just honestly dont see how volunteers are going to be able to provide the coverage the citizens deserve.

That aside, the bigger problem is trying to get local and county government on board with this. No one wants to pay and everyone is looking for the cheapest solution - this void is most often filled by a private company. And we all know how privates operate. But, of equal importance, is educating the resident's of westchester. They have an immense, almost sick, infatuation with their locale and as a result want to have their own fire department, their own police department and own ambulance. the gravy train is over. It's time to start looking seriously at long term solution that levels the tax burden and provides a better overall service.

The best part of the whole deal is that most of the leg work has already been done, we can easily model a local system off a highly effective county solution from out west or down south.

Edited July 27, 2009 by Goose

[Bnechis 3,961]

Recently a lot of people are facing struggles with work, sometimes working 2 or more jobs and are not able to make the commitment as they previously had, I believe this may be the biggest case for the burnout in the vollie department. However, with the economy improving this may only be for another year or two while people get back on their feet. Is this too long to wait? Or should their be daytime Paid EMS, as not to loose volunteer status in the town.

I have been hearing this complaint in many communities in Westchester, including the NW for 20+ years, maybe it is worst now, but I dont remmeber when it was great or even good. Years back I got hyjacked (3 times) to ride a rig in the NW that showed up with only a driver (that will teach me to visit friends who live in the area).

In another year or two the economy may or may not be better, but there will be more EMS calls due to an aging population.

How long is too long?...........Your mom is having a stroke, dads having an MI, your baby is chocking or was struck by a car............ How long is too long to wait to fix the problem?

[BFD1054 1,552]

As with other pressing issues, this one has been beaten to death. Im not saying its a bad thing though, i think it is good that its being brought to light. Unfortunately, i do not see the issue changing anytime soon. Something needs to be done, bottom line.

I do not believe that there is a perfect, definative answer/solution accross the board.

I do like how Putnam County works with EMS dispatch, but that is far from perfect. If the primary agency cant get out, bang out the next closest 2 or 3 agencies and whoever gets a crew, takes the job. Again, this is FAR from perfect. This should not have to occur, no excuses.

Consolidation/regionalization may be a start. For my area, a start could be consolidating Cortlandt, Peekskill & Verplanck EMS. Start by cross-traing these agencies and allowing ALL members to cover calls in any of the districts. If you hear Peekskill needs an EMT, but youre a CVAC or Verplanck EMT, you could respond (same with drivers). Instead of Peekskill toning out 3 or so times then going to CVAC or Verplanck, it would cut down some time.

Next step could be a partial paid system, with Peekskill/Cortlandt sharing the cost. Have 1 (maybe 2) paid buses to cover the entire area and have the volunteers pick up additional calls.

These are just a few ideas i think could help a bit, but certainly not be the end-all solution.

Something needs to be done and its owed to our individual communities to provide a reliable and professional EMS system that responds in a timely manner.

John Munson (Remember 585) touched on the issues facing EMS in our County in the "Consolidation" topic thread (that has since been closed). He brought up some great points and this is a great place to bring it back up.

[gamewell45 258]

Not only would that make sense...but it would tweak the volunteers (who would in turn call up everyone they know, come out 300 deep and complain to all the residents [who are already ignorant to the lax service they get], hit the usual talking points about how they care so much and do it for free, and they will stay in business...happens any time ANYONE questions a volunteer agency) and it will cost money...so forget it. Not going to happen.

Goose unless you can find a way to fund a totally career EMS force without taking money out of taxpayers wallets, the volunteers will win hands down. So in that aspect you are correct; just forget it and let it go because it isn't going to happen.

[x635 4,066]

The best part of the whole deal is that most of the leg work has already been done, we can easily model a local system off a highly effective county solution from out west or down south.

The perfect example. Austin-Travis County EMS, Austin TX.

The Austin-Travis County EMS Department is the primary provider for medical rescue within the City of Austin and Travis County. The Department is jointly funded by the City of Austin (70%) and Travis County (30%). The City of Austin is the managing partner of this funding consortium. A/TCEMS is supported in its operation by 18 first response agencies and 16 corporate first response teams. The department has a staff of 465, a budget of $40,540,000 and collected revenue for direct services of $20.2 million last year. Medical Direction is through a full-time EMS physician who oversees the Austin-Travis County EMS System clinical alliance consisting of 38 different emergency service agencies . The Medical Director is the system's designated medical coordinator for all EMS and First Responder activities within the City of Austin and Travis County.

The department was created by municipal ordinance in 1975 to provide the citizens of Austin a reliable and quality service for emergency pre-hospital medical rescue. It operates under a third service public safety model, separate from fire and police. The third service delivery model was selected for Austin after an extensive review by several blue ribbon citizen groups. Unique from its inception, the City of Austin's EMS Department remains one of the few municipally operated third service EMS systems in the country.

The City of Austin EMS Department expanded its services to include all of Travis County (approximately 1,100 square miles) under an Interlocal Governmental Agreement beginning May of 1977. After an exhaustive assessment by A/TCEMS System stakeholders (1998-2001) regarding which government should host the A/TCEMS Department, it was recommended that the City of Austin continue in its current role as the managing entity for A/TCEMS. Under an expanded interlocal governmental agreement, Travis County formally transferred all of its EMS related administrative duties to the City of Austin EMS Department to streamline operations and minimize duplications in administrative process.

[JFLYNN 681]

Chris and others very nice replies, and enjoy constructive criticism, as it educates us as a whole.

So hopefully, can we do as not to have people take it personally, have a discussion, on some things that need to change. How to improve the volunteer service so that individuals do not lose their agencies but also provide the timely service and care that the residents and citizens need?

I for one would love to see a great discussion, as there are places where vac's can be used and their is also a need for paid agencies. I understand that, hopefully we all can as well.

So what can we do to improve? I know there are a lot of senior guys out there, that definitely have more experience and I would appreciate hearing their opinions as to learn.

Recently a lot of people are facing struggles with work, sometimes working 2 or more jobs and are not able to make the commitment as they previously had, I believe this may be the biggest case for the burnout in the vollie department. However, with the economy improving this may only be for another year or two while people get back on their feet. Is this too long to wait? Or should their be daytime Paid EMS, as not to loose volunteer status in the town.

I am looking forward to some good replies that can benefit as all as a whole.

Is another year or two too long to wait (assuming you are correct which I'm not assuming) ? Well,

ds on whether or not you or amyone you care about will be having a medical emergency in Northern Westchester during that time...if the citizens of this, one of the most affluent counties in the world only knew how long they or their family members will probably have to wait for adequate EMS response for a life threatening emergency and how relatively inexpensively the problem could be fixed...

What can be done to improve? Either go with a career/ paid service, or, as OVAC does, sign up for tours and staff the ambulances properly...that's being a true volunteer...commit to being in the station, ready and able to respond 24/7, 365, and I wouldn't care if you were paid or not- this is not a career/volly issue- it's a hypocrisy issue. For a simple MVA with a stable patient and a door pop in most small towns in Westchester the response is so enormous it's almost incomprehensible...why, it's exciting and glamorous- hero stuff, whoopee...Then, next day same time see how long it takes to get two EMT's to show up for a diff. breather or seizures when someones life is truly in danger but not so glamorous...this has been happening daily for at least the last twenty to thirty years.

[helicopper 1,050]

What can be done to improve?

OK, here's a wish list...

Via the REMSCO and REMAC, establish a response time standard of eight minutes (I believe that's the national standard per ACLS - correct me if I'm wrong) 95% of the time. This will in most places require a crew on-duty, in quarters, staffing the ambulance. If an agency can't do that by themselves, maybe they can collaborate with the agency next door because most places don't have an overwhelming volume. As BFD1054 suggested, perhaps an effort to regionalize EMS "membership" and allow Agency X EMT to ride with Agency Y's driver would also help.

If you can't meet this standard with your own people, hire people. If you can't hire people, contract out with an agency to provide you the resources. If you can't do any of the above, time to shut your doors and choose a new community service to volunteer for.

I think the majority of "volunteer" EMS agencies have paid personnel these days anyway (Peekskill, Ossining, Valhalla, Hawthorne, Mamaroneck, Larchmont, Port Chester/Rye/Rye Brook, Scarsdale, to name a few) so this isn't such a big stretch. They've recognized their short-staffing and dealt with it.

Through QA/QI programs, hold agencies accountable for this response time standard and when the responses are abysmal, report it to the Town/Village Board or City Council and publicize it so everyone knows there's a problem.

I happen to agree that regionalization or consolidation of services is a good plan for much of the County and that could be a part of this also.

Accountability is the first step in this process. Agency heads can't stick their heads in the ground and deny that a problem exists when they're not getting out the door.

How's that for a start?

[MoFire390 118]

As with other pressing issues, this one has been beaten to death. Im not saying its a bad thing though, i think it is good that its being brought to light. Unfortunately, i do not see the issue changing anytime soon. Something needs to be done, bottom line.

I do not believe that there is a perfect, definative answer/solution accross the board.

I do like how Putnam County works with EMS dispatch, but that is far from perfect. If the primary agency cant get out, bang out the next closest 2 or 3 agencies and whoever gets a crew, takes the job. Again, this is FAR from perfect. This should not have to occur, no excuses.

Consolidation/regionalization may be a start. For my area, a start could be consolidating Cortlandt, Peekskill & Verplanck EMS. Start by cross-traing these agencies and allowing ALL members to cover calls in any of the districts. If you hear Peekskill needs an EMT, but youre a CVAC or Verplanck EMT, you could respond (same with drivers). Instead of Peekskill toning out 3 or so times then going to CVAC or Verplanck, it would cut down some time.

Next step could be a partial paid system, with Peekskill/Cortlandt sharing the cost. Have 1 (maybe 2) paid buses to cover the entire area and have the volunteers pick up additional calls.

These are just a few ideas i think could help a bit, but certainly not be the end-all solution.

Something needs to be done and its owed to our individual communities to provide a reliable and professional EMS system that responds in a timely manner.

John Munson (Remember 585) touched on the issues facing EMS in our County in the "Consolidation" topic thread (that has since been closed). He brought up some great points and this is a great place to bring it back up.

Not gonna knock on u mike but some of this has already happened...i know i get in the habbit of sitting on a call waiting for MA and usually ask control to tone out MA if they get an EMT to let them know that i will drive for them...usually get one or a full crew...as for the consolidation will NEVER happen in the TOC because of billing issues.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

I do have to say if everyone instead of sitting home buffing out with a scanner and having a certification join one of the ems agencies could cover some of the calls instead of saying on here did you hear those agencies and the give aways. The EMS System in a whole is in trouble I do agree but if everyone contributed to covering a call instead of contributing their 2 cents we might get stuff done.

There are a lot of comments that could fit under this statement. Such as if some buffing out portable radios purchased with taxpayer funding and insurance reimbursement would answer calls maybe our customers could get an ambulance in a timely manner. Or how about properly utilizing paid staffing when appropriate instead of worrying about power, ego's and control...and this is for both ems and fire agencies. I don't have this problem where I live because I pay taxes to staff an ambulance for where I live. If more agencies got their heads out of their arse, they'd damn well know its time to supplement their systems. And with some of the monies I know that are getting raked in with 3rd party billing its not as if it couldn't be afforded.

I really honestly don't get it. If I was the operations manager or chief of many of the agencies out there, I could not in good faith as a good manager sit there in front of politicians like many do as if there is no problem. I would be fighting for more staffing to make my system run better for the protection and service of my customers all while trying to find ways to maximize the personnel I have and even expand services provided. But I've been a witness to more then one occasion of agency "heads" "managers" or my favorite one "leaders" sitting in front of political councils/boards etc being everything other then fully truthful.

The long-term, progressive, solution is to go with a fully career third service across the county. Because, in all honesty, while this problem may be far more frequent in northern westchester it happens county wide.

Riiiiight. Most of you know my feelings on this. Cross trained personnel in a well managed fire based system. Better pay, better benefits package. Most of the best systems in the country are FD based. But I know..sniff sniff..."I shouldn't have to be a firefighter to be a Paramedic." Just like my kid sings with Hannah Montana..."you get the best of both worlds." But I'd have no problem handing off my patient all worked up to one of you 3rd party guys on a bus as I go back in service. lol.

To Chris's list I add the following wish:

Require all agencies to either utilize 60 control for dispatching or utilize the existing capabilities of the CAD system where any VAC/agency with units fully staffed would mark such in the computer making it easier to coordinate mutual aid. I'm tired of waiting for a bus based on a shot in the dark to an agency who might not be staffed. Why are agencies allowed to pick who to go to mutual aid and why are we toning out 1 agency at a time in NW Westchester. Get real. Agency 1 doesn't get out over a span of 7-10 mins. Ton out agency 2, they don't get out over similar time frame...then go to agency 3. Tone out 2 or 3 at once and get it on already.

Enough with the island thought process. It wastes money, resources etc. It's ridiculous. Too many agencies still go around with blinders on as if they don't have problems. Just because you get 3 rigs on on Tuesday doesn't make up for the rest of the week that you drop calls. Stop finding feel good reasons to think your ok. And here is another one...just because you have numbers slightly better then your neighbor doesn't mean you don't have a problem either. It just means for some reason you dropped less calls. Your not better then them in the customer service business.

Even alcoholics have to admit there is a problem. Maybe we should start Fire and EMS anomynous for all of you out there in denial. Then again the truth hurts which is why I'm not always the one that some like to hear speak in certain fire and ems venues. Hard to argue common sense and good management concepts. But then you are everything but that and out comes the attack defense that Chief Flynn speaks of. You're anti volunteer, a rebel rouser...trying to take over...etc. My favorite comment I've heard still "they only come out because they are getting paid to do so." No kidding..that's why its called my profession. My friends often call me to help out at their house, with their cars, etc....but I don't always say yes...its not my job those are my hobbies.

[Goose 188]

ALS - Wake County North Carolina is a perfect example of one of the best third services in the country. In fact, a starting paramedic makes close to 10 grand more than a city of raleigh probie with county benefits (no 20 and out though). My understanding is that the FD EMS relationship is absolutely amazing - EMS is treated as equal professionals and FD is consistently looking to do/learn more in terms of patient care. So, the whole benefits and compensation package is possible - especially here. But you and i will never agree about that

Besides, if we were to sell off some of the useless/replicated fire apparatus throughout the county we should have more than enough start up capital for Westchester County EMS.

Edited July 28, 2009 by Goose