Age Limits, Civil Service Tests, And The Economy

[JFLYNN 681]

While I generally agree that the list should be followed, having the one in three rule also means that if the guy in #1 had a great day or is the smartest on the job, if his personnel folder is 6" thick because of all the charges, for late, fighting, etc. and he is borderline for dismisal, but #2 or 3 is clearly a leader, that knows the job and who would improve morale 1000%. the chief has the option.

Barry. the Chief also has the option to skip the strong union guy, or the guy who is the wrong color, or someone he has an old grudge against, or someone who is in the way of getting to a politically connected guy...just promote right down the list without skips, it's not perfect but it's the best system I've seen yet...

[x635 4,066]

The economy hurts everyone, those who score high and are qualified and those who do not. Governments are not making an exception if you were #1 or #5,000,000....they are still not hiring....

This man made a series of decisions in his life that prevented him from being a cop before the economy tanked.....and now that it has and he wants this job he missed out....

This man "made a series of decisions" to serve his country, and was forced to serve multiple tours in Iraq- not by choice. Consequently, he had to pass up a job that he now has, but is going to expire due to the age restrictions and the economy. He didn't "miss out" by any fault of his own-rather he took the proper steps to pursue the career, but due to the military, his age, and the economy, he is losing out on a career he's wanted and has done everything right to get.

If his birthday is in September, and the academy class is scheduled to start in October, he loses the job by a matter of weeks? That makes no sense to me.

I agree....rules are in place for a reason....that doesn't mean, though, that they are concrete and don't need to be evaluated or adjusted as needed.

[hudson144 150]

How about-promote when there is an opening,promote leaving the racism out of it,promote even though the city attorney didn't investigate a forged letter with no merit that the mayor ordered a complete investigation to be done- lol,sorry just had to vent a bit!!! The truth will be out in the end!

[abaduck 123]

This man "made a series of decisions" to serve his country, and was forced to serve multiple tours in Iraq- not by choice. Consequently, he had to pass up a job that he now has, but is going to expire due to the age restrictions and the economy.

I've made my views on absolute age requirements clear. It's simply not credible to me that a guy is past his sell-by date at... what was it? 32? 34? That's just wrong. But I agree with the view that, if you have rules, it's best to stick by them - by law, they may not have any choice in the matter anyway. Which brings me to the possible solution; law. I hope I'm not imagining it, but isn't there such a thing a 'legislative appointment'? If the guy has the record of service to his country you describe, wouldn't it be possible for him to get support enough to convince a politician to tack a one-line clause onto some other bill making him legislatively eligible? That's the kind of thing that can make politicos look good with the votes... good for a spot on the 6pm news maybe.

Doesn't fix the system, but might fix this one problem.

[FirNaTine 370]

I'd like to see guys show as much interest in learning and doing their Job to the best of their abiltity no matter what their shape is, as they do in having a "six pack" and 0% body fat for the next Calendar Shoot! Now that's being responsible! Let's all start taking a little more PRIDE in our Profession as much as we do in our Pecs! Who cares what kind of shape your in, if you can't take a door by yourself with the adz end of the Halligan. You know, the small rectangular end of the tool. I've worked with guys who have completed Marathons but can't throw a 24' Extension Ladder up by themselves. Let's Get Real Fellows! Wise up and get your priorites straight!!!

[FirNaTine 370]

While I generally agree that the list should be followed, having the one in three rule also means that if the guy in #1 had a great day or is the smartest on the job, if his personnel folder is 6" thick because of all the charges, for late, fighting, etc. and he is borderline for dismisal, but #2 or 3 is clearly a leader, that knows the job and who would improve morale 1000%. the chief has the option.

Then there's the other side of the coin Bnechis. What about the guy who's #1 because he had a great day or is the smartest on the Job and has no 6" folder but hasn't done a thing since Day #1 or proven himself to others? Unlike the individual who is #2 or #3 who may have a few skeletons in his closet but has proven himself as not only a great FF. but a true Leader and respected by his peers?

[Guest truckiehand]

I think FirNaTine hit the nail on the head...training is one of the biggest parts of the fire service and with training comes fitness. In my firehouse we have been trying to stress back to basics training recently and it is amazing how tired some people get just throwing a ladder, not even trying to climb it afterwords...and we all know that ladders are the most visable part of a fire scence how many times have you seen four guys trying to set up a ladder on Snooze 12 only to fail miserably? We have done ladders and other back to basics tasked recently and it is clear that most of us are becoming more profficent and more in shape to do it, we also have started jogging a couple days a week to motivate everyone to get into shape.

On a personal note I am trying to get hired right now and because of the economy am not doing so well, but I go to the gym 5 days a week for two hours to get myself in shape to get hired because the compitition is only getting tougher because of the economy. Civil services rules are in place for a reason as others have stated on this board and will probaly not change anytime soon, so I just bust my butt (knowing that someplace out there is someone working just as hard or harder then I am for the same spot) and know that at some point when I get hired it will just be all the sweeter!

[aacofd40 6]

Your colleague should think about doing a few things:

1. Double check that the age requirement is effective on the date of training beginning, and not at the start of the process. My limited experience is that the applicant must be older than 18 when training starts and younger than 29 (minus the military experience waiver) when the test is taken.

2. Look at DHS, specifically ICE and CBP, who are making a conscious effort to hire folks transitioning out of the military. He should check with his local bases transition office about this program and others. Lots of folks have mentioned how much of a plus it is to hire/work with former military bubbas, and there are a few programs in place that help make that jump to LE jobs.

3. Contact a lawyer. I know I will probably get banned from this site, but the protections afforded reservists are complex and were not designed for the current envoirnment of multiple recalls and deployments, and sometimes employers (to include Federal/State/local's) are not as up-to-speed on what allowances they are required to make.

Good luck to him.

Be safe,

JR

[hudson144 150]

JAG-A great resource to use if you have a question about civilian employment while serving your country,My JAG advised me exactly what to do, I followed their lead and they know the laws better than many!

[Bnechis 3,961]

JAG-A great resource to use if you have a question about civilian employment while serving your country,My JAG advised me exactly what to do, I followed their lead and they know the laws better than many!

And they have the only lawyers that can land a Tomcat on the pitching deck of a flat top......

[lad12derff 283]

JAG-A great resource to use if you have a question about civilian employment while serving your country,My JAG advised me exactly what to do, I followed their lead and they know the laws better than many!

Better than the kitchen table lawyers?

[ltmdepas3280 1]

I'm ok with the "it's a young mans job" line......what bugs me is the whole fitness level thing. Not everyone operates at the same level nor should they...I get the fact we should all be in shape and some of us are not(myself included) but my years of training and experience is more valuable than the shape I'm in. When I started(24 years ago) there were several men in there late 50's early 60's who were in various shapes and health and all contributed to the job with knowledge and experience along with the little shortcuts that make the job less strenuous on all of us.

I think it's more important to raise the age level for civil service to 25/40 for both fire and police. The main benefit of this, is a more mature well rounded person who is less likely to be a screw up. At that age they will more than likely have already proofed themselves has a good worker or have been weeded out has a screw up. Just an opinion.