Westchester County Shared Services Conference

[Truck4 48]

A spin-off from the other topic, Westchester held a conference yesterday at the county center:

http://www.lohud.com/article/20090603/NEWS02/906030332

Not in the article, but County Exec Spano suggested on News 12 that Yonkers Fire should provide HazMat response to Southern Westchester.

[61MACKBR1 222]

Now I think that Andy Spano is on the right track. "Regionalizing" Special Operations Services" within the county into Districts makes absolute sense. Obviously, with the Spec Ops Equipment, Apparatus, and Tools that the Yonkers Fire Department currently has, using all of this, say under the authority of the Southern Westchester County Emergency Response Team, makes sense. You could have specific members of say, YFD, MVFD, NRFD, Eastchester, Pelham, Hastings, Dobbs Ferry, etc, ALL trained in Spec Ops (Haz Mat, Collapse, etc) and would jointly man and operated the resources needed, rather than having duplicate sets of equipment around the southern end of the county. One could even expand on this, as it relates to Mutual Aid responses, as it relates to Major Muliple Alarm Fires, falling under the domain of the Southern Westchester Emergency Response Team. This would solve some of the issues that Mount Vernon has been having. Just a thought.

[TimesUp 148]

Now I think that Andy Spano is on the right track. "Regionalizing" Special Operations Services" within the county into Districts makes absolute sense. Obviously, with the Spec Ops Equipment, Apparatus, and Tools that the Yonkers Fire Department currently has, using all of this, say under the authority of the Southern Westchester County Emergency Response Team, makes sense. You could have specific members of say, YFD, MVFD, NRFD, Eastchester, Pelham, Hastings, Dobbs Ferry, etc, ALL trained in Spec Ops (Haz Mat, Collapse, etc) and would jointly man and operated the resources needed, rather than having duplicate sets of equipment around the southern end of the county. One could even expand on this, as it relates to Mutual Aid responses, as it relates to Major Muliple Alarm Fires, falling under the domain of the Southern Westchester Emergency Response Team. This would solve some of the issues that Mount Vernon has been having. Just a thought.

Mutual has never been a problem for Mt. Vernon. Its the manning and Companys OOS prior to the fire that is. So as far as something like this being a solution for the staffing issues, its not. But this has been brought up time and time again.

[Goose 188]

Sound's like at least a step in the right direction, the convention that is.

[FirNaTine 370]

Mutual has never been a problem for Mt. Vernon. Its the manning and Companys OOS prior to the fire that is. So as far as something like this being a solution for the staffing issues, its not. But this has been brought up time and time again.

I already see a difference with FDMV puttting their 3rd truck back in service. At least M/A companies aren't being dispatched right to the scene and as soon as the 3rd truck and 5th engine are returned to service they release the M/A companies. That's the way it should be. It's about time!!

[hudson144 150]

5Th Engine? Whats that?

[Guest]

Asking Westchester County to streamline their Emergency Services with the current people in charge at Dana Road is a recipe for disaster. They are the most reactive group going in all emergency services in this county. The Haz Mat team is a disgrace, the Tech Rescue Team is nothing more then smoke and mirrors and the way that 60 Control is run is deplorable. No time is spent educating the dispatchers (this is not aimed at them, they do a great job!) on how the fire service relys on it's dispatch center from the time the call begins to the time it ends. I guess it should come as no surprise, considering the bosses overseeing the communications center have no fire background, and those working there that do know how it should go are constantly told to keep their thoughts to themselves! Sure they can EMD but do they really know what to do for fire and other rescue or haz-mat emergencies?

[Goose 188]

Chrome, could you expand more on where dispatch falls short for the fire departments (hilarious signature by the way!)?

Also, even if Spano demanded the creation of something like a county fire department (consolidation of all town/village departments minus cities) it wouldn't matter, right? I mean, there exists no authority for anyone to consolidate anything because home rule is how we run the empire state. No?

I would be curious to see how Nassau and Suffolk managed to create such strong county PDs in such a strong home rule place like NY. Anyone have any insight there?

[FDNYDCHI 38]

With the SCPD out of the Island Its my understanding that the villages in there charter had to obsolve there local police department and then the county would take over the police services.

[Remember585 815]

The way that 60 Control is run is deplorable. No time is spent educating the dispatchers (this is not aimed at them, they do a great job!) on how the fire service relys on it's dispatch center from the time the call begins to the time it ends.

Please elaborate!

[stixx 7]

it sound good to me sharing services it will help very down the Southern end of Westchester County.

[ny10570 745]

It seems like without a central organizing authority the majority are benefiting on the backs of a few. The volunteers cannot contribute the way the paid depts can and Yonkers has made a commitment to special ops far and above most agencies. Without a central pooling of funds and resources its not going to work.

[Guest]

Chrome, could you expand more on where dispatch falls short for the fire departments (hilarious signature by the way!)?

Most of what is wrong with 60 Control is not the fault of the dispatchers, they just do what they're told to do. I'd be willing to bet if you asked some of them their opinions on some of this, they'd have plenty to offer. The problems lie with their "Command Staff," which comes from the absolute top down. These are the same people who issue a policy, realize it doesn't work, then re-write it again. And again. And again.

IE - how many changes and problems came with the Trunking radios? They were originally advertised as a "radio system to allow interoperability for all Westchester resources," then it was suggested for daily use to FD and EMS agencies in the north, others were told to use it to come off of 46.26 (not a bad idea) - but it doesn't work for everyone! Last I heard there's dead zones. Not only that, but how does your rig driver know if the rig got out if they're using trunking? A friend of mine in Vista said they have to call on both Fire 16 and 46.26 so their members know - seems silly to me.

It's stuff like this that makes me hesitant to leave PD dispatch!

[Remember585 815]

It's stuff like this that makes me hesitant to leave PD dispatch!

We started using 60 Control last October after being dispatched by our PD forever. Overall it has had many advantages, as promised, despite a couple of minor growing pains that have been worked out, just like anything else new.

Also, Vista is on Fire 13. If I remember correctly, South Salem FD has a link from Fire 13 to a low band frequency so members can hear what's going on right on their pagers. Similar things have been done in Katonah and Yorktown...and maybe soon in Croton.

As far as Policies changing - that's not much of a point to make. Emergency services are always adapting to the changes in our environment, so updating policies to stay with the changing times seems OK to me.

[Goose 188]

I really don't know a whole lot about radios and that sort of tech stuff or how our new radio system works, how it was set up, what it was designed to do and what it actually is capable of. When i use it, it works and someone usually gets back to me.

I understanding and appreciate your hesitation about fully county dispatch. Ultimately, i think it's a good thing (in fact, it's the way things should be done....Westchester should not have 48 [whatever the # is] PSAPs). Granted, i have no clue if the new radio system could handle dispatching every fire and EMS agency (with exception of the cities that chose to opt out and empress), maybe someone could comment on that. But, County dispatch offers some serious benefits. The two biggest i can think of at this ungodly hour is 1) EMD and 2) proper documentation/recording/tracking (no more starting the clock when you put the ambulance in drive, conveniently ignoring your 15 minute crew assembly time...) that may help make the case for some sort of action (either holding agencies accountable or looking towards another option).

I do know one thing, however....it seems to me that they are very understaffed up there.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

The fact that discussion is even taking place is a step in the right direction. However to me if this starts rolling along, I would think that getting the 911 system to where it should be would be a start in the right direction to begin with to get down to the absolute minimum number of PSAP's instead of the current system. If they could get 911 fixed..then I would feel more positive that other issues that many of face could be attempted to be changed.

I don't understand the hesitation or concern about a county dispatch. There are counties with higher call volume and population who have county dispatching systems and they work just fine. Look at Dutchess's 911 system, it works extremely well.

Edited June 10, 2009 by alsfirefighter

[Goose 188]

The fact that discussion is even taking place is a step in the right direction. However to me if this starts rolling along, I would think that getting the 911 system to where it should be would be a start in the right direction to begin with to get down to the absolute minimum number of PSAP's instead of the current system. If they could get 911 fixed..then I would feel more positive that other issues that many of face could be attempted to be changed.

I don't understand the hesitation or concern about a county dispatch. There are counties with higher call volume and population who have county dispatching systems and they work just fine. Look at Dutchess's 911 system, it works extremely well.

I think a lot of the hesitation in terms of separating from PD dispatch has to do with knowing the area well. At least thats a common reason i have heard time and time again. Giving you additional information like "124 main street across from xyz school, or ifo the sams restaurant." Maybe you wouldn't get those two additional items from county?

Dutchess 911 is a great example. Granted, i don't know much about what goes on on their side of the radio and how many PSAPs exist in Dutchess. But, i know they have a decent number of dispatchers on shift regularly, they have a solid radio system (which i believe is being or has already been upgraded) with great coverage, and so much of what goes on is pre-arranged. My understanding is that if a certain mobilization (i believe they have MCI levels and obviously alarms of fire) is requested they push a button and the appropriate units are dispatched and backfill units are sent in to cover territories.

No clue if westchester has that (i assume it's capable).

[DCJPells 29]

I think a lot of the hesitation in terms of separating from PD dispatch has to do with knowing the area well. At least thats a common reason i have heard time and time again. Giving you additional information like "124 main street across from xyz school, or ifo the sams restaurant." Maybe you wouldn't get those two additional items from county?

Dutchess 911 is a great example. Granted, i don't know much about what goes on on their side of the radio and how many PSAPs exist in Dutchess. But, i know they have a decent number of dispatchers on shift regularly, they have a solid radio system (which i believe is being or has already been upgraded) with great coverage, and so much of what goes on is pre-arranged. My understanding is that if a certain mobilization (i believe they have MCI levels and obviously alarms of fire) is requested they push a button and the appropriate units are dispatched and backfill units are sent in to cover territories.

No clue if westchester has that (i assume it's capable).

DC is set up as one PSAP for Dutchess with a back up at City of Poughkeepsie. The City is a PSAP for City proper and does there own dispatching and is a backup for County. This covers 37 FD's in Dutchess. PD is different. A call to 911 in City proper is City 911. In the rest of Dutchess except Town of Poughkeepsie and East Fishkill, Polling is done as to closest PD. The Exceptions are passed to those dispatch centers (TOPPD and EFPD). All cell calls to towers in Dutchess are routed to DC911 as well as the 911 surcharge for cells in DC proper. Calls can still be made by 7 digits to all the PD agencies and many still dispatch themselves as well.

A well designed Enhanced 911 system with mapping will pinpoint a caller to an address and have associated cross streets. Some phone systems do not play well with E911. An example is a CENTREX system (dial 9 to get a line) may have extensions that are physically off site from the address that resides in the telex referance. This can be fixed but needs to be known. Also you have VOIP which needs to be addressed.

[27east 19]

DC is set up as one PSAP for Dutchess with a back up at City of Poughkeepsie. The City is a PSAP for City proper and does there own dispatching and is a backup for County. This covers 37 FD's in Dutchess. PD is different. A call to 911 in City proper is City 911. In the rest of Dutchess except Town of Poughkeepsie and East Fishkill, Polling is done as to closest PD. The Exceptions are passed to those dispatch centers (TOPPD and EFPD). All cell calls to towers in Dutchess are routed to DC911 as well as the 911 surcharge for cells in DC proper. Calls can still be made by 7 digits to all the PD agencies and many still dispatch themselves as well.

A well designed Enhanced 911 system with mapping will pinpoint a caller to an address and have associated cross streets. Some phone systems do not play well with E911. An example is a CENTREX system (dial 9 to get a line) may have extensions that are physically off site from the address that resides in the telex referance. This can be fixed but needs to be known. Also you have VOIP which needs to be addressed.

Are EFPD and TOPPD the only full-time PDs? (Other than NYSP and DCSO)

[DCJPells 29]

City of Beacon and Town of Fishkill are. Beacon may get calls transfered but not sure as well as Fishkill. Hyde Park I think is full time. Others have reduced due to costs.

[27east 19]

With the SCPD out of the Island Its my understanding that the villages in there charter had to obsolve there local police department and then the county would take over the police services.

In the late 1950s a countywide (all 10 towns) referendum was held in Suffolk regarding the creation of a county police force. The five western towns voted to abolish their town departments, while the East End decided to keep their town forces. Thus the creation of the police district. Some villages in the western part of the county maintain their own PDs.

Nassau County is very similar.

[Goose 188]

In the late 1950s a countywide (all 10 towns) referendum was held in Suffolk regarding the creation of a county police force. The five western towns voted to abolish their town departments, while the East End decided to keep their town forces. Thus the creation of the police district. Some villages in the western part of the county maintain their own PDs.

Nassau County is very similar.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but Nassau PD pretty much runs the show. I know places like Rockville Centre and Baldwin have Cops...but i was actually told they don't have much authority...like i said, Nassau pretty much runs the show. Again, this is just what i've been told...if someone can correct me or expand on it it would be appreciated. Not knowing a whole lot about how Nassau and Suffolk work...they do seem to provide a more realistic solution then having 50 police departments.

Additionally, any expansion on Westchester's 911 dispatch capabilities (ie: can they take over all dispatching with the new radio system, is there a plan in place to do that, etc...) in terms of what they can offer to the county would be appreciated.

[Guest Chiefmcfuz]

With all due respect, all police officers have equal authority down the line. The only people who have more authority than a police officer are those who had lucky Saturdays and passed supervisors exam. If I am on duty and another on duty cop or detective (a cop with a pretty looking shield with great quality knee pads) tells me to do something, they get told where they can go and what they can do when they get there. But only after they do whatever they wanted me to do first.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

If I am on duty and another on duty cop or detective (a cop with a pretty looking shield with great quality knee pads) tells me to do something, they get told where they can go and what they can do when they get there.

Remember you said this fuzz....you know if you make detective I'm gonna be bringing you a set of kneepads..lol.

[Guest Chiefmcfuz]

Trust me, I will never make DT LOL I don't have the "CONNECTIONS"

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Trust me, I will never make DT LOL I don't have the "CONNECTIONS"

2 things I know we both know bro....

1. Never say never....

2. "Always room for improvement sir." LOL. Lets see if you remember that one.

but you know if you do...I'm bringing knee pads to your party.

[Guest Chiefmcfuz]

2 things I know we both know bro....

1. Never say never....

2. "Always room for improvement sir." LOL. Lets see if you remember that one.

but you know if you do...I'm bringing knee pads to your party.

I'll hold you to that!

Edited June 13, 2009 by Chiefmcfuz

[xchief2x 79]

Hey Tommy so will I.