Fire District Consolidation Opposition

[Remember585 815]

I thought this was a discussion of the proposed bill to consolidate municipal services in NYS, not another firefighter training conversation?! (Not that I care...)

We live in the heaviest taxed area of the USA. Each municipality feels it needs to have "one of everything," even though their neighbors have them too. Fire districts, fire departments, EMS, Police, DPW, etc. are all going to face a harsh wake up call whether this gets approved or not. Let's face it, you can pretty much drive through any community in Westchester County and see repeated services over and over and over again. Does every Village DPW need a bucket truck? Does every PD need it's own ESU? Does every FD really need a Rescue truck? Nope.

Take my area for example. We're part of the Town of Cortlandt although we're in a Village. Us lucky residents get to pay taxes to both the Village and Town. WHY? I get nothing, NOTHING AT ALL, from the Town. I do not use their parks or participate in their recreation programs or have my street sweeped, plowed or repaired by the TOC. All of my basic needs are handled by Croton DPW, if I need the cops I get Croton PD and the fire and EMS is handled by CFD and CEMS. What does my paying taxes to the Town do for me? If the Village and Town consolidated their DPWs then we could save a little money, no? It's all too much to me, and if it means all of us hiding in our own little kingdoms have to give up a couple of little things to decrease the cost of living and possibly increase the capabilities of our services then I say why not. Heck, even if it all meant some paid firefighters in our stations to guarantee coverage, so be it. Hopefully some of my members could benefit and land those jobs, who knows...

PS - the politicians are all a joke, talking about reducing taxes but how much have they given up? Exactly...

[Bnechis 3,961]

I thought this was a discussion of the proposed bill to consolidate municipal services in NYS, not another firefighter training conversation?! (Not that I care...)

Ok I will help bring it back. For those who said no way that Albany would do this, as of this afternoon, the legislative status is as follows:

STATUS:

A8501 Silver (MS) Same as S 5661 STEWART-COUSINS

General Municipal Law

TITLE....Enacts the NY government reorganization and citizen empowerment act; repealer

05/21/09 referred to local governments

05/26/09 reported referred to ways and means

05/27/09 reported referred to rules

06/01/09 reported

06/01/09 rules report cal.35

06/01/09 ordered to third reading rules cal.35

06/01/09 passed assembly

06/01/09 delivered to senate

06/01/09 REFERRED TO LOCAL GOVERNMENT

06/03/09 SUBSTITUTED FOR S5661

06/03/09 3RD READING CAL.472

06/03/09 MOTION TO AMEND LOST

06/03/09 MOTION TO AMEND LOST

06/03/09 PASSED SENATE

06/03/09 RETURNED TO ASSEMBLY (Note: to be sent to the Gov.)

Now what does this mean...It means that its ready to be delievered to the govenor for his signature. And the state senators that wanted to ammend it to remove FD's and change the 10% minimum did not get the ammendments.

Is Albany serious....can anyone ever remember anything passing thru in a grand total of 3 weeks..........?

What it means is that if the Gov. signs it, we could see consolidation &/or disolution proposals on the fall election ballots. The clock is ticking. I strongly suggest that those that really care about the service that they provide start to consider that many people in the communities do not care and if you don't consider the consiquences of your actions (read budgets) then you may find yourselves voted out of existance.

[Remember585 815]

Do you think the Governor will sign off on it or will he feel too much backlash?

[medic25 0]

Do you think the Governor will sign off on it or will he feel too much backlash?

Hopefully he will do the right thing and pass it. The amount of service replication in New York is mind-blowing. I thought that the Hudson Valley was bad enough, but after living on Long Island for 2 years and seeing the excesses of their departments I was converted to the concept of consolidation. For the amount of tax money New Yorker's are paying they deserve much, much more from their municipal services. If the governor has the courage to sign this into law, perhaps it will be the first step in bringing some of the systems into the 21st century.

[16fire5 693]

I thought this was a discussion of the proposed bill to consolidate municipal services in NYS, not another firefighter training conversation?! (Not that I care...)

We live in the heaviest taxed area of the USA. Each municipality feels it needs to have "one of everything," even though their neighbors have them too. Fire districts, fire departments, EMS, Police, DPW, etc. are all going to face a harsh wake up call whether this gets approved or not. Let's face it, you can pretty much drive through any community in Westchester County and see repeated services over and over and over again. Does every Village DPW need a bucket truck? Does every PD need it's own ESU? Does every FD really need a Rescue truck? Nope.

Take my area for example. We're part of the Town of Cortlandt although we're in a Village. Us lucky residents get to pay taxes to both the Village and Town. WHY? I get nothing, NOTHING AT ALL, from the Town. I do not use their parks or participate in their recreation programs or have my street sweeped, plowed or repaired by the TOC. All of my basic needs are handled by Croton DPW, if I need the cops I get Croton PD and the fire and EMS is handled by CFD and CEMS. What does my paying taxes to the Town do for me? If the Village and Town consolidated their DPWs then we could save a little money, no? It's all too much to me, and if it means all of us hiding in our own little kingdoms have to give up a couple of little things to decrease the cost of living and possibly increase the capabilities of our services then I say why not. Heck, even if it all meant some paid firefighters in our stations to guarantee coverage, so be it. Hopefully some of my members could benefit and land those jobs, who knows...

PS - the politicians are all a joke, talking about reducing taxes but how much have they given up? Exactly...

I'm sure you do pay too much in taxes but I'm sure if you check your Town taxes are based on the town services that serve you if not you should complain because you should not be paying for services handled by your village. There are different rates for town residents that live in villages and those that don't. That being said it's obvious that towns like to spread out the tax burden and it's hard to totally calculate and seperate the expenses to fairly set the rates.

[Remember585 815]

I'm sure you do pay too much in taxes but I'm sure if you check your Town taxes are based on the town services that serve you if not you should complain because you should not be paying for services handled by your village. There are different rates for town residents that live in villages and those that don't. That being said it's obvious that towns like to spread out the tax burden and it's hard to totally calculate and seperate the expenses to fairly set the rates.

I should of elaborated, you're right. My Town tax is nothing compared to the Village, however it still boggles my mind that I have to pay anything at all. At one point the Village was exploring a split from the Town, I don't know how I feel about that, maybe it would be better? We pay our Village tax to cover all the different facets of government responsibility, yet certain things aren't done as they should be and projects keep being done at great costs that have no bearing on the life of the residents. For example, our Village is doing a project to raise part of the train station parking lot that, if I am correct, is mostly used by non-resident commuters. I know this lot turns a revenue for the village, but I like many others aren't convinced that putting more dirt and adding some walls is going to prevent the flooding of the lot. Enough about that...

The way I see it, and I hope I am right or at least not 100% wrong, is that people are in a panic about their departments losing money, being shrunk down or going bye-bye, although in many municipalities they're already nickel and diming stuff. Almost every department in our Village had to cut it's budget for the new year, while most of the cuts won't severely impact us, it just goes to show that the governments already can control us, just in different ways (IE budget cuts). Department heads will have to make stronger pitches to get what they need, so it will take some good research and planning to justify future expenses. We saw several items axed from our budget this year and I only anticipate it happening more and more. The taxpaying public has seen it's fill and has spoken - and since all of those elected officials want to be voted in again and again, they're going to side with the majority like usual. It's going to be interesting, this new America is all about changing everything and they're obviously not worried about the repercussions that will ensue.

All of this makes me wish I paid more attention in my Economics and Political Science classes....

[ex-commish 490]

i'm still trying to figure out how any volunteers can be in support of this bill. the replies i've seen on here remind me of the backlash on firehouse.com a few years back when screwsday published their "fire alarm" series of lies and fellow firefighters decided to bash us on long island. it saddened me as a firefighter that fellow vollies could turn their backs on us out of nothing more than jealousy. yeah, some people may be turned off by me calling it that and it's maybe not the best way to win people over, but let's be real for a minute...while anybody is free to disagree with me, doing so only means you're lying to yourself.

i wish every firefighter had the opportunity to serve in a department such as my own, where we want for nothing. we have the best equipment, safest gear and best training academy in the country. this is all accomplished by about a dollar a day to the taxpayers. yes, a dollar a day. we have some of the best response times and best manned rigs in the country. i completely respect and admire every firefighter who serves their community with tighter budgets and substandard equipment. in most long island departments, we don't have to worry about that. our neighbors are more than willing to pay that dollar a day for a service that crushes a paid alternative in both cost and effectiveness. to run nassau county with a bare bones paid service with standards and manpower far less than new york city's, would cost over a quarter of a billion dollars every year.

if you love your community and your department or company, you should be outraged at this bill's vote. i want to serve my town and not see my firehouse closed when some politician decides he can play fire chief. i know what it takes to be a chief, run a fire, crawl down the hallway...not him. if you don't mind seeing your company or department being declared "not worth it" and closed, then you have no pride in where you come from.

lastly, the expression "brother" is thrown around a lot, but when you see your fellow brothers bashing you and your department because we are fortunate to have a comfortable budget, it proves an expression i started using after the firehouse.com fiasco years ago: BMA, brother my a$$. we're all out for ourselves like every other profession and we're supposed to be better than that. we're supposed to be firemen, that should mean something.

let's support each other and where we are from and show albany that our system works. we want to remain where we are and serve our communities. we're not all building tiki bars and wastefully spending. we're buying the best equipment and busting our rear ends to provide the best service in the nation.

thanks for reading my rant and please stick together against this bill and all those who supported in, slapping the volunteers in the face.

I don't think it is fair to say that those who supported this bill slapped volunteers in the face. While I still am not sure if this bill is the answer as I am suspicious of state legislators who cant seem to run the state let alone be concerned about local government there has been concern about duplication of government. Most of the emphasis on here has been on the fire service. This bill goes beyond the fire service and applies to other forms of government. The bill has passed the senate and will go to the governor and I assume he will sign it into law. Only time will tell if things will improve or not. The local taxpayer will have to decide if they want to run with this or not. This bill is not the end of the world rather a wake up call.

[abaduck 123]

if you love your community and your department or company, you should be outraged at this bill's vote. i want to serve my town and not see my firehouse closed when some politician decides he can play fire chief. i know what it takes to be a chief, run a fire, crawl down the hallway...not him. if you don't mind seeing your company or department being declared "not worth it" and closed, then you have no pride in where you come from.

I have pride in our department. I have little pride in the organisation and politics that results in us having to get in our rigs, drive for several minutes, drive PAST the firehouse of another department, then drive for a couple of minutes more to reach one of the more distant corners of our district. *of course* the other department should be first due. But apparently that's not possible due to ancient political boundaries; the homeowners pay taxes to 'us', not 'them', and no-one seems to be prepared to try and fix it. That's nothing less than brain-damaged stupid. I don't pretend to know what the answer is - maybe it IS the Westchester Fire Department. But, pride in department or company notwithstanding, we shouldn't lose sight of who we're paid - or volunteer - to serve! And if we haven't managed to fix the kind of idiocy I described in the last fifty years, then maybe the system could use a shakeup.

Edited June 4, 2009 by abaduck

[helicopper 1,050]

i'm still trying to figure out how any volunteers can be in support of this bill. the replies i've seen on here remind me of the backlash on firehouse.com a few years back when screwsday published their "fire alarm" series of lies and fellow firefighters decided to bash us on long island. it saddened me as a firefighter that fellow vollies could turn their backs on us out of nothing more than jealousy. yeah, some people may be turned off by me calling it that and it's maybe not the best way to win people over, but let's be real for a minute...while anybody is free to disagree with me, doing so only means you're lying to yourself.

i wish every firefighter had the opportunity to serve in a department such as my own, where we want for nothing. we have the best equipment, safest gear and best training academy in the country. this is all accomplished by about a dollar a day to the taxpayers. yes, a dollar a day. we have some of the best response times and best manned rigs in the country. i completely respect and admire every firefighter who serves their community with tighter budgets and substandard equipment. in most long island departments, we don't have to worry about that. our neighbors are more than willing to pay that dollar a day for a service that crushes a paid alternative in both cost and effectiveness. to run nassau county with a bare bones paid service with standards and manpower far less than new york city's, would cost over a quarter of a billion dollars every year.

if you love your community and your department or company, you should be outraged at this bill's vote. i want to serve my town and not see my firehouse closed when some politician decides he can play fire chief. i know what it takes to be a chief, run a fire, crawl down the hallway...not him. if you don't mind seeing your company or department being declared "not worth it" and closed, then you have no pride in where you come from.

lastly, the expression "brother" is thrown around a lot, but when you see your fellow brothers bashing you and your department because we are fortunate to have a comfortable budget, it proves an expression i started using after the firehouse.com fiasco years ago: BMA, brother my a$$. we're all out for ourselves like every other profession and we're supposed to be better than that. we're supposed to be firemen, that should mean something.

let's support each other and where we are from and show albany that our system works. we want to remain where we are and serve our communities. we're not all building tiki bars and wastefully spending. we're buying the best equipment and busting our rear ends to provide the best service in the nation.

thanks for reading my rant and please stick together against this bill and all those who supported in, slapping the volunteers in the face.

Volunteers can support this bill because it is not limited to fire departments and there are duplicative and redundant layers of government all over the state. Volunteers are taxpayers too, aren't they? This does include police and fire departments too, even on Long Island. You assert that Long Island is a model for others to follow but I respectfully disagree. There are about 179 fire departments on Long Island operating more apparatus than NYC and LA combined out of about 490 stations and buildings. This is your model of efficiency? What if your neighbors found out they could pay only ten cents per day for the same level of efficiency and service from a regionalized service? How much do they pay in homeowners insurance with your system and how much would they pay if the fire service was regionalized and response times improved? Note, that I'm not suggesting a career service. If you truly have enough volunteers with adequate training there is no reason to go to a career service. Now the question is do you have enough properly trained firefighters to do the job? Who makes that determination? If there is no external oversight and no accountability how can anyone be sure of what the reality is?

In 2005, the cost for Long Island fire service was estimated at 311 MILLION dollars (plus 57 MILLION in reserves) and had been increased 14% since 2003. This is not a lie, it is public information. What warranted that double digit increase? It certainly wasn't an increase in fire load or salary increases for paid employees.

Despite all this spending, there is no guarantee that there will be a timely fire or EMS response on Long Island. There are about 150 heavy rescue companies on Long Island - how many are actually necessary? Taxpayers could save more than 52 MILLION dollars in vehicle replacement costs alone on this one type of apparatus if the heavy rescue coverage was regionalized and reduced to 50 for the island. That's still ten times as many as are in service in NYC.

Your pride and dedication is admirable but your blind faith in the system as it exists today is naive and you may in fact be the one lying to yourself. Absent some accountability and better oversight both fiscally and operationally, I don't see it the same way as you. That's not jealousy, it's simple responsiblility. I'm not suggesting that anything be taken away from your department or that you be replaced by a career firefighter but your rhetoric about the perils of this legislation is way off base.

[JFLYNN 681]

i'm still trying to figure out how any volunteers can be in support of this bill. the replies i've seen on here remind me of the backlash on firehouse.com a few years back when screwsday published their "fire alarm" series of lies and fellow firefighters decided to bash us on long island. it saddened me as a firefighter that fellow vollies could turn their backs on us out of nothing more than jealousy. yeah, some people may be turned off by me calling it that and it's maybe not the best way to win people over, but let's be real for a minute...while anybody is free to disagree with me, doing so only means you're lying to yourself.

i wish every firefighter had the opportunity to serve in a department such as my own, where we want for nothing. we have the best equipment, safest gear and best training academy in the country. this is all accomplished by about a dollar a day to the taxpayers. yes, a dollar a day. we have some of the best response times and best manned rigs in the country. i completely respect and admire every firefighter who serves their community with tighter budgets and substandard equipment. in most long island departments, we don't have to worry about that. our neighbors are more than willing to pay that dollar a day for a service that crushes a paid alternative in both cost and effectiveness. to run nassau county with a bare bones paid service with standards and manpower far less than new york city's, would cost over a quarter of a billion dollars every year.

if you love your community and your department or company, you should be outraged at this bill's vote. i want to serve my town and not see my firehouse closed when some politician decides he can play fire chief. i know what it takes to be a chief, run a fire, crawl down the hallway...not him. if you don't mind seeing your company or department being declared "not worth it" and closed, then you have no pride in where you come from.

lastly, the expression "brother" is thrown around a lot, but when you see your fellow brothers bashing you and your department because we are fortunate to have a comfortable budget, it proves an expression i started using after the firehouse.com fiasco years ago: BMA, brother my a$$. we're all out for ourselves like every other profession and we're supposed to be better than that. we're supposed to be firemen, that should mean something.

let's support each other and where we are from and show albany that our system works. we want to remain where we are and serve our communities. we're not all building tiki bars and wastefully spending. we're buying the best equipment and busting our rear ends to provide the best service in the nation.

thanks for reading my rant and please stick together against this bill and all those who supported in, slapping the volunteers in the face.

Your post is actually a great argument FOR this bill, thanks!

It's the peoples money! A dollar a day per taxpayer? I'm not sure where you get that or if it's accurate, but I would interpret that to mean a family of 5 on Long Island pays $1.825 annually in fire taxes. Not including if they decide to donate when you send around letters asking for donations or set up outside the supermarket. Then, factor in higher fire insurance rates for a volunteer department.

And for that they get what Newsday accurately reported on and what many of us have known for years...a bunch of guys hanging out in palatial firehouses, sometimes almost right across the street from each other, housing hugely expensive top of the line apparatus with every bell and whistle known to man, and probably 3 or 4 times as many of them on the Island as actually needed. Then, add in the Carribean trips for scuba diving training, party (oh, sorry, training buses), etc., etc.

No accountability, no standardized training, etc.

Oh man I could go on and on...IMO the Long Island Fire Service is the poster child for why this bill is necessary, but why waste my time basically repeating what has already clearly shown to be true by Newsday?

But don't worry, if you love your community so much and they love and appreciate you, nothing will change with the passage of this bill. All the bill does is give voters the opportunity to vote on a change.

I know some of you personally and the guys I know are all great guys. I'm sure most of the rest of you are too, so I must close with... qtip... and state for the record that this will (ok, probably) be my last post on the Long Island volunteer fire service.

[Goose 188]

I think this bill is great. Hopefully the Governor signs this bill and consolidation begins. Westchester and Long Island are prime candidates for some serious change. I know it probably won't happen soon (maybe not at all) given the infatuation so many Westchester residents have with their hamlet, village, or town. Step in the right direction though.

As a side doesn't Nassau PD provide ALS in their county? Seems they have a Greenburgh-like system as the medics ride solo and i've seen patrol officers drive for them.

[Monty 35]

Do you think the Governor will sign off on it or will he feel too much backlash?

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the Governor sign it. For all of his current rating (however low it is), or maybe because of it he just vetoed a bill for PD & FF pensions (http://www.lohud.com/article/20090604/NEWS05/906040370/1021) .........

[weaselff 6]

Your post is actually a great argument FOR this bill, thanks!

It's the peoples money! A dollar a day per taxpayer? I'm not sure where you get that or if it's accurate, but I would interpret that to mean a family of 5 on Long Island pays $1.825 annually in fire taxes. Not including if they decide to donate when you send around letters asking for donations or set up outside the supermarket. Then, factor in higher fire insurance rates for a volunteer department.

And for that they get what Newsday accurately reported on and what many of us have known for years...a bunch of guys hanging out in palatial firehouses, sometimes almost right across the street from each other, housing hugely expensive top of the line apparatus with every bell and whistle known to man, and probably 3 or 4 times as many of them on the Island as actually needed. Then, add in the Carribean trips for scuba diving training, party (oh, sorry, training buses), etc., etc.

No accountability, no standardized training, etc.

Oh man I could go on and on...IMO the Long Island Fire Service is the poster child for why this bill is necessary, but why waste my time basically repeating what has already clearly shown to be true by Newsday?

But don't worry, if you love your community so much and they love and appreciate you, nothing will change with the passage of this bill. All the bill does is give voters the opportunity to vote on a change.

I know some of you personally and the guys I know are all great guys. I'm sure most of the rest of you are too, so I must close with... qtip... and state for the record that this will (ok, probably) be my last post on the Long Island volunteer fire service.

Hey JFlynn you forgot about racing! Cause you know we do this all the time at fires, you know jump from a hot rod at 50 mph with only a hockey helmet and kneepads while simultaneously throwing a ladder and climbing it!

[ny10570 745]

619 if you can truly provide a better service for the same or less than a paid dept than this legislation wouldn't affect you. Put the numbers before the people and they will vote with their wallets. While your dept may not be engaging in such extravagance plenty are. I've seen the the way some depts purchase rigs. Not sacrificing for members safety is great, but buying EVERYTHING the dealer has to offer is a different story. When you guys put on a fundraiser to pay for these trips do you advertise where the money is going or just put it under "support your local volleys" blanket. FYI, I'm a volley but some of the crap depts pull makes me sick.

[ffp20 14]

okay guy, newsday and accurate don't belong in the same sentence. you act like every firehouse is some gorgeous place. only one of ours is a newer style firehouse, the rest are just renovated old firehouses. "carribean trips" if you wanna call them that, aren't funded by tax money. a trip like that would be funded by fundraiser money. when you say "hugely expensive top of the line apparatus with every bell and whistle known to man", in one sentence, you've prove either jealousy or a flagrant disregard for our safety. it was an incredibly foolish statement to make. if we have the money to do so, we should buy what's best. if we don't have the money, then we'd look at what's cheaper. that's life. either support your "brothers" to the south or support the liberal rag newsday and side against the brotherhood...your choice

ok..."not funded" by taxpayer money. Paid with 2% then. Who da hell do you think pays that? fire insurance premiums paid by property owners ie TAXPAYERS.

[JFLYNN 681]

okay guy, newsday and accurate don't belong in the same sentence. you act like every firehouse is some gorgeous place. only one of ours is a newer style firehouse, the rest are just renovated old firehouses. "carribean trips" if you wanna call them that, aren't funded by tax money. a trip like that would be funded by fundraiser money. when you say "hugely expensive top of the line apparatus with every bell and whistle known to man", in one sentence, you've prove either jealousy or a flagrant disregard for our safety. it was an incredibly foolish statement to make. if we have the money to do so, we should buy what's best. if we don't have the money, then we'd look at what's cheaper. that's life. either support your "brothers" to the south or support the liberal rag newsday and side against the brotherhood...your choice

So, when you do the fundraiser for the "Carribean trip", you are very clear with the people who are donating where their money is going, right?

And you buy what's best (the best) when "you" have the money? Whose money is it anyway? Obviously you continue to demonstrate whose money you think it is.

Wow, thanks for giving me a choice...it's newsday or "the brotherhood", huh? I'll take choice "C", thanks.

[JFLYNN 681]

the amount of departments or buildings is irrelevant. in an effective volly system, you need more houses to account for travel time.

homeowners insurance fire rates are great in my town.

are there too many heavy rescues? who is to say? not every rescue operates the way that an fdny rescue does. many may perform truck duties where a ladder is not needed.

it's not blind faith...i'm not saying that we are perfect, but our system works very effectively for somewhere in the ballpark of a buck a day, give or take. to say 311 million seems dramatic, but when you consider that a paid service would be close to that number for nassau county alone. nassau and suffolk rates would climb 19-24% according there is just no way to pay 10 cents a day for a system that comes even close to ours. if you ask someone if they'd rather pay $40 a year or $400 a year, but the difference was that the consolidated service would close the firehouse up the block and fire units will now take 3 minutes longer to get there, they will pay the 400 just about every time. i understand there were instances of districts spending a lot and not getting the bang for their buck when put into action on the street, but that's the minority. go after schools and libraries which tax more than the fire districts and are completely mismanaged.

If everything is so hunkydory, why are you all so opposed to (afraid of) this bill? The taxpayers love you and appreciate all you do for them and wouldn't even think of changing anything, so giving them the option to do so won't hurt you in any way I guess....

[ajsbear 11]

585. I too live in the Town of Cortlandt, the unincorporated part and I have asked Linda what do i get for my taxes, They collect my garbage and plow my street. That's why one night my wife ended up in the drainage ditch. The hill was total ice, had to call a tow, and PD to get the road sanded. Parks? Not one in my area, they're all down in the villages, pool too. We get 2 ball fields and a dog park. I've been asking for the drainage ditches to be repaired for 4 years now. We see a street sweeper once a year in the spring. We once called for animal control to pick up a rabid racoon the PD shot. It was 3 feet onto the property. They refused. If we combined DPW, town and village hall, courts, all government services in Cortlandt we'd see a decrease in taxes no doubt and no real change in services. Next lets discuss School districts and those taxes which are also out of control.

[xchief2x 79]

If consolidation would bring about a better quality of service toour customers then I seriously hope the governor signs the bill. Unfortunately from what I understand is this proposal does not include the school districts who seem to do whatever they wish raising taxes every year. Maybe school districts should stop taxing and become tuition based there may be less unneccesary spending that way as the parents might pay more attention. MAny years ago one of my coworkers did some math and figured it out that it would be cheaper to shut down our school system and bus the kids to another school. All politiciians including school board members have their personal agenda when they get elected and then after they get elected the only thing ow on their minds is getting re elected at the end of their term.

[dadbo46 50]

585. I too live in the Town of Cortlandt, the unincorporated part and I have asked Linda what do i get for my taxes, They collect my garbage and plow my street. That's why one night my wife ended up in the drainage ditch. The hill was total ice, had to call a tow, and PD to get the road sanded. Parks? Not one in my area, they're all down in the villages, pool too. We get 2 ball fields and a dog park. I've been asking for the drainage ditches to be repaired for 4 years now. We see a street sweeper once a year in the spring. We once called for animal control to pick up a rabid racoon the PD shot. It was 3 feet onto the property. They refused. If we combined DPW, town and village hall, courts, all government services in Cortlandt we'd see a decrease in taxes no doubt and no real change in services. Next lets discuss School districts and those taxes which are also out of control.

Amen !

[helicopper 1,050]

the amount of departments or buildings is irrelevant. in an effective volly system, you need more houses to account for travel time.

homeowners insurance fire rates are great in my town.

are there too many heavy rescues? who is to say? not every rescue operates the way that an fdny rescue does. many may perform truck duties where a ladder is not needed.

it's not blind faith...i'm not saying that we are perfect, but our system works very effectively for somewhere in the ballpark of a buck a day, give or take. to say 311 million seems dramatic, but when you consider that a paid service would be close to that number for nassau county alone. nassau and suffolk rates would climb 19-24% according there is just no way to pay 10 cents a day for a system that comes even close to ours. if you ask someone if they'd rather pay $40 a year or $400 a year, but the difference was that the consolidated service would close the firehouse up the block and fire units will now take 3 minutes longer to get there, they will pay the 400 just about every time. i understand there were instances of districts spending a lot and not getting the bang for their buck when put into action on the street, but that's the minority. go after schools and libraries which tax more than the fire districts and are completely mismanaged.

The amount of departments and/or buildings is hardly irrelevant. There is a cost associated with each one so it has a direct correlation to the taxes paid by your residents.

What is your ISO rating? Who decides what "great" is?

If you need to perform the duties of a truck company, why not send a truck company? Is it necessary to purchase a $750,000 rescue to "fill-in" for a truck company?

I'm not advocating a paid service for Long Island - if the volunteer services are as effective as you claim. I'm saying that it can be done for less than it costing now through consolidation of departments. This may or may not translate into the closing of any firehouses but it would require fewer Chief's (and vehicles), fewer contracts/insurance policies/etc.

If this were the forum for schools and not emergency services I certainly would be advocating reform there too. Are you saying we can't criticize mismanaged FD's because there are equally or more mismanaged school districts? Come on...

[ajsbear 11]

585 got me started. I think I posted this once before, in the town of Cortlandt. There are 5 ladders, 22 engines, 2 tankers, 6 Rescue companies, I did not count utilities and did not add in the VA or Peekskill which is sounded by Cortlandt. Nor did I count marine units or Mini attack. So what do you think? Do we have too many units in this town? 22 Engines at a replacement of $500,000 each. 6 Rescues, how many MVA's do we need at the same time to tie all of them up. We have way too much. Now we could look at Ossining too. What about Greenbugh? Why do we need so much? We could save a lot of money by not buying another rig in all of Westchester for the next 10 years. We have more equipment in this county per square mile, per person than NYC or any county inthe country. Why?

[Bnechis 3,961]

585 got me started. I think I posted this once before, in the town of Cortlandt. There are 5 ladders, 22 engines, 2 tankers, 6 Rescue companies, I did not count utilities and did not add in the VA or Peekskill which is sounded by Cortlandt. Nor did I count marine units or Mini attack. So what do you think? Do we have too many units in this town? 22 Engines at a replacement of $500,000 each. 6 Rescues, how many MVA's do we need at the same time to tie all of them up. We have way too much. Now we could look at Ossining too. What about Greenbugh? Why do we need so much? We could save a lot of money by not buying another rig in all of Westchester for the next 10 years. We have more equipment in this county per square mile, per person than NYC or any county inthe country. Why?

town of Cortlandt

Population in July 2007: 40,226

Land area: 39.7 square miles.

Population density: 1014 people per square mile

22 Engines @$500,000 (equipped) = $11 million

$273 per person to pay for the engines

1 engine per 1,828 people

City of New Rochelle

Population in July 2007: 73,260

Land area: 10.4 square miles.

Population density: 7078 people per square mile

7 Engines (2 spares) @$500,000 (equipped) = $3.5 million

$47.75 per person to pay for the engines

1 engine per 10,466

And we are in a study to consolidate and reduce the numbers.

[ajsbear 11]

town of Cortlandt

Population in July 2007: 40,226

Land area: 39.7 square miles.

Population density: 1014 people per square mile

22 Engines @$500,000 (equipped) = $11 million

$273 per person to pay for the engines

1 engine per 1,828 people

City of New Rochelle

Population in July 2007: 73,260

Land area: 10.4 square miles.

Population density: 7078 people per square mile

7 Engines (2 spares) @$500,000 (equipped) = $3.5 million

$47.75 per person to pay for the engines

1 engine per 10,466

And we are in a study to consolidate and reduce the numbers.

Need I say more? Thanks Barry.

[firecapt32 282]

ajsbear--your answer is 'because we can" thats why -how many times have oyu herd this --that apparatus is 20 years old-we need a new one. what do we do ?? we sell it to a rural community and they use it for another 20 years?? does that make sense?? Im not sure if consolidation is a good thing or not but we should at least look into it. just my 2 cents

[COMMANDCHIEF 4]

To answer a previous posters question. I believe this bill is not exclusive to FIRE DISTRICTS, but will effect all special districts like school. You might not like the structure of the Fire District system. But do you want to be paying for Yonkers school kids? I don't.

[JFLYNN 681]

To answer a previous posters question. I believe this bill is not exclusive to FIRE DISTRICTS, but will effect all special districts like school. You might not like the structure of the Fire District system. But do you want to be paying for Yonkers school kids? I don't.

You're way off the mark here...please guys, try to get at least the basic facts right before you chime in with an opinion...it has been mentioned many times here that schools are not part of this bill- there already is a mechanism in place to consolidate school districts and over the years many districts have consolidated. Regardless, why in the world would you think that this bill in any way could result in you paying for Yonkers school kids????

BTW, what exactly is a "COMMAND CHIEF"?

[gamewell45 258]

town of Cortlandt

Population in July 2007: 40,226

Land area: 39.7 square miles.

Population density: 1014 people per square mile

22 Engines @$500,000 (equipped) = $11 million

$273 per person to pay for the engines

1 engine per 1,828 people

City of New Rochelle

Population in July 2007: 73,260

Land area: 10.4 square miles.

Population density: 7078 people per square mile

7 Engines (2 spares) @$500,000 (equipped) = $3.5 million

$47.75 per person to pay for the engines

1 engine per 10,466

And we are in a study to consolidate and reduce the numbers.

The apparatus is only a part of the overall picture; did you factor in salaries, vacation relief, sick time, overtime, training, cost of benefits, pension contributions etc?

[JFLYNN 681]

ISO is one of the tops in the state.

Not all Rescues are the $750,000 kind just filling it for a truck. Creative way of typing that though to make your point seem more valid.

Fire districts have worked together in the past and are trying more than ever to combine purchasing with other districts, but for years had their hands tied by the legality of it. The easiest, yet hardest way to accomplish this is grants. If they wanted to help save money, enable the fire service to pool monies as a county or battalions to help ease purchasing for shared vehicles. What they are doing now is not the answer. It's exagerations and creative writing like many of the posts here by the holier than thou IAFF members which create rumors which lead to misinformation, which in turn leads to the possibility of a community of a fire district foolishly voting to consolidate, when it wasn't their best option. The IAFF and UFA have tried for years to smear the volunteer fire service because they consider us vollies scabs. Anyone who chums up with them on this board should remember that. The members aren't all bad, but their unions intent is the full collapse of the volunteer fire service. I'm not saying consolidation is never the answer, but more often than not, it's just that...not.

"which in turn leads to the possibility of a community of a fire district foolishly voting to consolidate, when it wasn't their best option."

Oh my goodness, Chief, you actually wrote that....this is the crux of the whole issue...do you really think that the residents of your community shouldn't have the option to vote to consolidate because they are too foolish?

You make a lot of assumptions in your posts about the intentions of other members of the fire service but you don't back your assumptions up with facts. Again, one of the good things about a forum like this is the posts remain there for all to see. I don't believe that either Bnechis or myself have made statements about other people's intentions, their feelings, or what is in their heads. We have presented factual information, expressed our own opinions, and sometimes asked questions, but never accusations about the intentions of others.

Reading your posts gives me the feeling that you are saying to all on this forum, "you're either for us or against us brother"...most on this forum will see right through that...reasonable, intelligent people can disagree on issues, not take it personally, and realize that we are "for" or "against" a certain issue or point of view, but we are never "for" or "against" one another...

[LTNRFD 266]

And on behalf of the citizens of the City of New Rochelle, I'd like to thank the firefighters there for not accepting pay for their job, oh wait...

Next time you try to prove a point, try AT LEAST to be fair about it and factor in the costs of a fully paid workforce. You know as well as I do that it's more expensive to the residents of paid fire service communities than volunteer ones. Al Gore would be calling this fuzzy math.

See Westchester vollies, a Long Island buff has your backs! I'm not a paid fireman hater whatsoever, but I take exception when someone hates on us without getting their facts straight or trying to pull the puppet strings.

Pay no attention to the Bnechis behind the curtain!!!

As a citizen of the Queen City of the Sound, that statement of the firefighters not accepting pay for their job just shows how ignorant some of the posters here can be. You know NRFD is a career department. Has been for many years and will be for many more.

The City of New Rochelle realized over 70 years ago that the Volunteers could not provide the services needed for the ever expanding city. Up until that point the voluteers did their best, but the demands of the growth of the city far out weighed the willingness of the volunteers to provide fire coverage. The city invested in manpower, training, apparatus and upgrading the water supply. The old above ground wooden water mains just were not doing the job. Nor were the cisterns (look that up in the dictionary).

NRFD ran 7 engines and 3 ladders out of 7 stations back in the 60's and had a work load of less than 3,000 runs a year. Now they run 5 engines, 3 ladders and a rescue ( I believe it is manned most of the time) and running 7,500-8,000 calls a year out of 5 stations. All this and I pay about $650 a year towards my fire department and my home owners insurance is $ 1,100 for coverage on a house valued at 1 million. I think that's a bargin. I know of people who have homes of the same value covered by a volunteer department and pays 3 times that much for their home owners insurance.

The bottom line is, if the volunteers can do the job....great....continue.....BUT when the service is not being provided, you have to take a LONG, HARD look at what the citizens are getting for their dollar vs. what they can get for a few dollars more. And when you factor ALL cost of providing fire service, fire tax and cost of insurance etc., you might not be making statements about puppet strings.

Edited June 25, 2009 by LTNRFD